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  • FIRST POST
    • Montysma
    • By Montysma 9th May 18, 8:58 PM
    • 23Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Montysma
    Buying a property with an annex
    • #1
    • 9th May 18, 8:58 PM
    Buying a property with an annex 9th May 18 at 8:58 PM
    Interested in buying a house with an annex.

    It is accessed via a door off the kitchen but also has a separate entrance.
    It has 2 rooms, a bathroom. The hallway has kitchen units.

    The boiler, electric cupboard etc of the "main house" are in the hallway of the "annex"

    Is this something that it will be difficult to get a mortgage on?
    Will they be classed as separate properties? (There is only one council tax for the property)
Page 1
    • sammyjammy
    • By sammyjammy 9th May 18, 9:07 PM
    • 4,352 Posts
    • 4,712 Thanks
    sammyjammy
    • #2
    • 9th May 18, 9:07 PM
    • #2
    • 9th May 18, 9:07 PM
    What will you be planning to do with the annex?
    "You've been reading SOS when it's just your clock reading 5:05 "
    • Montysma
    • By Montysma 9th May 18, 9:12 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Montysma
    • #3
    • 9th May 18, 9:12 PM
    • #3
    • 9th May 18, 9:12 PM
    Just use it ourselves. The "main house" has 3 bedrooms and we need 4. So it would just be part of our house.
    • amnblog
    • By amnblog 10th May 18, 9:39 PM
    • 10,649 Posts
    • 4,215 Thanks
    amnblog
    • #4
    • 10th May 18, 9:39 PM
    • #4
    • 10th May 18, 9:39 PM
    Tricky rather than difficult. Do not expect all Lenders to be comfortable.

    Use a Broker
    I am a Mortgage Broker

    You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a Mortgage Broker, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.
    • CIS
    • By CIS 10th May 18, 10:37 PM
    • 10,578 Posts
    • 6,113 Thanks
    CIS
    • #5
    • 10th May 18, 10:37 PM
    • #5
    • 10th May 18, 10:37 PM
    It is likely that the annexe should be banded individually for council tax as it stands from what you have said.

    Is it England, Scotland or Wales ?
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a self employed Council Tax specialist. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
    • Niv
    • By Niv 11th May 18, 8:32 AM
    • 1,619 Posts
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    Niv
    • #6
    • 11th May 18, 8:32 AM
    • #6
    • 11th May 18, 8:32 AM
    I understand that if you remove the 'hallway kitchen', it would no longer be an annex for council tax purposes as it would not be able to be used independently from the main house.
    YNWA

    Target: Mortgage free by 58.
    • CIS
    • By CIS 11th May 18, 9:24 AM
    • 10,578 Posts
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    CIS
    • #7
    • 11th May 18, 9:24 AM
    • #7
    • 11th May 18, 9:24 AM
    I understand that if you remove the 'hallway kitchen', it would no longer be an annex for council tax purposes as it would not be able to be used independently from the main house.
    Originally posted by Niv
    It doesn't have to have a kitchen to be regarded as separate property - the VOA will look at the wider position of the property to make a full determination but it's unlikely it won't be subject to its own banding.
    Last edited by CIS; 11-05-2018 at 9:28 AM.
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a self employed Council Tax specialist. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
    • Captain_Kirk427
    • By Captain_Kirk427 11th May 18, 9:32 AM
    • 2 Posts
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    Captain_Kirk427
    • #8
    • 11th May 18, 9:32 AM
    • #8
    • 11th May 18, 9:32 AM
    I bought a house with an attached annexe last October.

    It's actually advantageous from a stamp duty perspective for the annexe to be classed as a separate dwelling - google Multiple Dwellings Relief.
    Our annexe was banded separately, and has a band of A, and we saved 7,000 on stamp duty!

    Some mortgage companies have an issue as you could rent out the annexe as a separate property and then if you default they have trouble selling the property on. However we got a mortgage through Virgin (via a broker) at standard rates (1.79% fixed for 5 years) with no real trouble. All they wanted was a signed letter from us saying that it would only be used by family.

    We are in the process of converting the entire property into one big house, so was never going to be used by anyone but ourselves
    • SDLT Geek
    • By SDLT Geek 11th May 18, 10:17 AM
    • 272 Posts
    • 164 Thanks
    SDLT Geek
    • #9
    • 11th May 18, 10:17 AM
    • #9
    • 11th May 18, 10:17 AM
    The multiple dwellings relief for SDLT would be dependent on the annex being "suitable for use" as a separate dwelling. That sounds doubtful from what you have said.


    Anyway, the relief would be "clawed back" if within three years of completion you made alterations so that the property as a whole is no longer suitable for use as two separate dwellings.
    • Niv
    • By Niv 11th May 18, 11:46 AM
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    Niv
    It doesn't have to have a kitchen to be regarded as separate property - the VOA will look at the wider position of the property to make a full determination but it's unlikely it won't be subject to its own banding.
    Originally posted by CIS


    Ok fair enough. So how would you go about making it not an annex? A separate entrance means little in the grand scheme of things, i.e its an additional back door and is still connected to the main house. I don't see how an area of a house that has a bathroom and a couple of reception rooms automatically becomes an annex. I have seen numerous houses where there is a door to separate such a set up and it is not considered an annex by the owner / mortgage company / council.


    I am genuinely asking, i am not questioning your knowledge in the area.
    YNWA

    Target: Mortgage free by 58.
    • CIS
    • By CIS 11th May 18, 12:20 PM
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    • 6,113 Thanks
    CIS
    Ok fair enough. So how would you go about making it not an annex? A separate entrance means little in the grand scheme of things, i.e its an additional back door and is still connected to the main house. I don't see how an area of a house that has a bathroom and a couple of reception rooms automatically becomes an annex. I have seen numerous houses where there is a door to separate such a set up and it is not considered an annex by the owner / mortgage company / council.


    I am genuinely asking, i am not questioning your knowledge in the area.
    Originally posted by Niv
    It's difficult - there's a lot to consider.

    When a property is looked at for banding there are two main ways - that if forms a dwelling under the LGFA92 or that it forms a 'self-contained dwelling' under the chargeable dwellings order 1992 - only where it is a 'self-contained dwelling' can it be considered as to whether or not it is an annexe for the purposes of council tax (an annexe for council tax purposes has specific requirements). 'Self contained' doesn't actually mean that it has to be entirely self-contained when it comes to facilities (the name is a bit of a misnomer).

    The fact that a residence has entry in to another property or not, or where the door is located, isn't in itself a major factor in deciding whether or not it is dwelling. The VOA will take a look at the overall situation to make a determination and it depends on what their assessment of the residence is as to whether it is a dwelling, a 'self-contained dwelling' or not a dwelling. There is an acre of case-law on the matter so without seeing the residence you cannot say 100% however in 95% + of cases if it is capable to separate occupation, even if not all facilities are present, it would be banded.

    The only way to know for a particular dwelling what would be needed to remove the capability for separate occupation would be to ask the VOA to inspect the property and then ask them. They should then be able to confirm what the factors they have identified for that property are and this what then needs done. The situation in the OPs case may be remedied by ensuring that there is clearly no food prep facilities etc present but again the VOA may not be satisfied that that is sufficient to do so.
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a self employed Council Tax specialist. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
    • Niv
    • By Niv 11th May 18, 12:42 PM
    • 1,619 Posts
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    Niv
    Many thanks CIS. It seems I know a number of people that have 'got lucky'. I guess the next thing is to work out what would trigger a council / VOA visit.
    YNWA

    Target: Mortgage free by 58.
    • CIS
    • By CIS 11th May 18, 1:47 PM
    • 10,578 Posts
    • 6,113 Thanks
    CIS
    There are thousands of properties out there that likely should be banded but aren't.
    I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a self employed Council Tax specialist. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.
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