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  • FIRST POST
    • AMTF
    • By AMTF 9th May 18, 8:48 PM
    • 20Posts
    • 6Thanks
    AMTF
    Judgment for Claimant (Default)
    • #1
    • 9th May 18, 8:48 PM
    Judgment for Claimant (Default) 9th May 18 at 8:48 PM
    Hi,

    I have received a Judgment for Claimant (in default) letter today, and need some advice.

    The claim is for a parking ticket for my old car, but all the letters were being sent to my old address. I had received one letter to my current address from Gladstone Solicitors, confirming that I was no longer at the old address, which included the letter requesting payment of £160.

    I had replied to this requesting certain details regarding the parking fine, but also included my current address in the header. I heard nothing back from them

    Now I have this letter requesting £281.71 (£184.71 for debt + interest and £97 for costs).

    Can anyone advise me on the next step? I intend on taking action against this as I feel the claim was knowingly sent to my old address.

    Thank you,

    Alex
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 9th May 18, 8:51 PM
    • 19,963 Posts
    • 25,278 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 9th May 18, 8:51 PM
    • #2
    • 9th May 18, 8:51 PM
    read up on set asides , which will cost you £255 to start with

    see post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread too

    and read up on other similar cases involving £255 set asides using the forum drop down search box and suitable search words, as this topic comes up every week
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 9th May 18, 10:30 PM
    • 1,183 Posts
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    Johnersh
    • #3
    • 9th May 18, 10:30 PM
    • #3
    • 9th May 18, 10:30 PM
    Hang on. You received one address to your new address from the solicitor with conduct, which elicited a response from you, but they then elected to serve at the old address?

    Did your letter say you had moved away too?

    This is significant as the court may be obliged to set aside if the claimant has failed to comply with their obligations when it comes to service of proceedings.
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • AMTF
    • By AMTF 9th May 18, 10:57 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    AMTF
    • #4
    • 9th May 18, 10:57 PM
    • #4
    • 9th May 18, 10:57 PM
    Hang on. You received one address to your new address from the solicitor with conduct, which elicited a response from you, but they then elected to serve at the old address?

    Did your letter say you had moved away too?

    This is significant as the court may be obliged to set aside if the claimant has failed to comply with their obligations when it comes to service of proceedings.
    Originally posted by Johnersh
    That is correct, the letter I received says:

    "We have previously written to you in the terms attached.

    We understand that you may now reside at the above address and as such kindly now request you make payment of the amount set out therein within the next 14 days"

    It then goes on to say that the legal proceedings will be served on "the address in the attached Letter Before Claim" if they fail to receive full payment. I have only just noticed this.

    In my letter I didn't specifically state I was in the new address, but did have my address within the letter in the sender's section, and also on the "if undelivered" section on the envelope.


    I have done some research and the charge for a set aside is £255. What is the difference between paying the set aside, and paying the fee (which is only £30 more)?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 9th May 18, 11:04 PM
    • 10,728 Posts
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    KeithP
    • #5
    • 9th May 18, 11:04 PM
    • #5
    • 9th May 18, 11:04 PM
    I have done some research and the charge for a set aside is £255. What is the difference between paying the set aside, and paying the fee (which is only £30 more)?
    Originally posted by AMTF
    Without a setaside, the judgment will be marked as satisfied on the register.
    With a setaside the judgment will be removed from the register.

    A satisfied judgment may cause credit problems similar to an unpaid judgment and remains on the register for six years.
    Last edited by KeithP; 09-05-2018 at 11:16 PM.
    .
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 9th May 18, 11:31 PM
    • 1,183 Posts
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    Johnersh
    • #6
    • 9th May 18, 11:31 PM
    • #6
    • 9th May 18, 11:31 PM
    We understand that you may now reside at the above address
    Ok, so they have this knowledge. They got a reply from you at that address. I don't think they were entitled to judgment at all. The evidence appears to suggest ACTUAL KNOWLEDGE that your 'last known address' is the one they wrote to, rather than issued court proceedings at.

    Read this and the court rules: http://www.civillitigationbrief.com/2014/05/18/service-of-the-claim-form-service-at-last-known-address-more-dangerbepoints-to-watch/

    If successful (and I would argue the court must set aside as proceedings were never served at a valid address for service) you should also be asking the court for the £255 back on the basis that the claimant should neither have pressed ahead with proceedings until certain of the position nor sought default judgment for which a prerequisite is valid service.

    I would suggest that there has been some sharp practice here, which may also be grounds to seek costs for unreasonable conduct (ie. Your time at litigant in person hourly rates).

    Indeed, I would also argue that the claim should be struck out in its entirety as it follows the claim form was not validly served either. If C has a claim it is able to bring they can issue fresh proceedings and there is time enough for them to do that (limitation hasn't passed) but they should not be permitted to use an old address as a vehicle to seek a quick judgment in their favour. The claim served on the wrong address was, in effect, void ab initio.
    Last edited by Johnersh; 09-05-2018 at 11:36 PM.
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th May 18, 1:04 AM
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    Coupon-mad
    • #7
    • 10th May 18, 1:04 AM
    • #7
    • 10th May 18, 1:04 AM
    Do exactly as Johnersh says, he is a solicitor and it certainly sounds as if Gladstones have deliberately or negligently filed for a judgment at an old address.

    You should alert your MP to this, and Sir Greg Knight MP, who is responsible for the current Private Parking Code of Practice Bill.

    DO NOT just contact Gladstones to pay this off. You need to get it removed and push for your £255 back by showing your Judge at your local court, when getting it set aside, the unreasonableness.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • AMTF
    • By AMTF 14th May 18, 11:03 PM
    • 20 Posts
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    AMTF
    • #8
    • 14th May 18, 11:03 PM
    Form n244
    • #8
    • 14th May 18, 11:03 PM
    Hi,

    Thank you all for your advice. I am going to apply for a Set Aside. I have the form n244, but I think I need a little help filling it in.

    If it helps you, the dates as shown on all the relevent letters were;

    14/02/18 - Gladstone letter before claim to old address
    16/03/18 - Gladstone Letter before claim to new address
    30/03/18 - My response to Gladstone Solicitors requesting additional information relating to the original "debt"
    09/04/18 - Date claim responce pack was sent (assertained over phone with court)
    04/05/18 - Judgment for Claimant (in default)

    Box 3 asks "What order are you asking the court to make and why?" but is that where I put my reason. If so, I have this:

    "Set Judgment Aside. I did not receive a Claim Response Pack despite Gladstone Solicitors knowing my new address. I had replied to the letter I received from them stating that they believed I resided at my new address, yet they still sent the claim to my old address."

    There is not much room in the box 3. Box 10, "What information will you be relying on, in support of your application?" has a bit more space, and has 3 options:

    the attached witness statement
    the statement of case
    the evidence set out in the box below

    Is it worth putting this in the box (and how do I word it?):

    CPR 6.9:
    (3) Where a claimant has reason to believe that the address of the defendant referred to in entries 1, 2 or 3 in the table in paragraph (2) is an address at which the defendant no longer resides or carries on business, the claimant must take reasonable steps to ascertain the address of the defendant’s current residence or place of business (‘current address’).
    (4) Where, having taken the reasonable steps required by paragraph (3), the claimant –
    (a) ascertains the defendant’s current address, the claim form must be served at that address

    I also need to claim back the money I am going to pay for the Set Aside. Will that be done either; (a). automatically by the court, (b). if applied for in the form n244, or (c). at a later date.?


    Sorry for the long-winded post, but I need to make sure that the information is correct.

    Thank you again for all your help,

    Alex
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th May 18, 11:07 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 14th May 18, 11:07 PM
    • #9
    • 14th May 18, 11:07 PM
    Why not look at all the other set aside threads from recent months, where people include a Draft Order, saying no POC were served, and another 5 or 6 points including that 'the matter of costs be reserved' if the Judge decides not to immediately strike the baseless claim out.

    IamEmanresu has posted several times with the boxes to tick in a N244.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 14th May 18, 11:39 PM
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    Johnersh
    Box on the front

    The defendant seeks an order setting aside the judgment in default dated xxx

    The defendant was not served with proceedings at his residential address. The claimant was on notice that the defendant had moved. The defendant contends that as service was not effective, the claimant was not entitled to seek judgment in default.

    Box on back
    Leave blank, but tick the box which refers to the attached witness statement.

    Sigh the form in both places.

    Witness statement
    Prepare a separate statement telling the story, paying particular attention to the for rules for service (and the claimants defective approach) and to the CPR provision for set aside.

    You may also like to attach a draft defence as an exhibit to evidence that the case is defensible.

    *remember to seek your costs. If the court is with you that proceedings were not served, this is all a consequence (the application + hearing) of their failure to serve on a correct address*
    Last edited by Johnersh; 14-05-2018 at 11:51 PM.
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 14th May 18, 11:42 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    Look at the draft orders people file too, and IamEmanresu's post about saying first and foremost that no Particulars of Claim were served.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 18-05-2018 at 3:55 PM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • AMTF
    • By AMTF 18th May 18, 12:48 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    AMTF
    I have sent of my n244 form and witness statement this morning, I received a further letter from Gladstones yesterday to inform me I had the Judgment against me so I added this to my statement, as they clearly know where I live.

    I will keep you updated to let you know the outcome
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th May 18, 1:05 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    Did you include a draft order of what you want the court to do, including reserving your costs so you can claim the £255 back if you later win/they discontinue? You must ask for costs to be reserved (or refunded at the set aside hearing if the DJ is on your side about this conduct).
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • AMTF
    • By AMTF 18th May 18, 3:49 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    AMTF
    Yes, I have asked for 1. The set aside 2. My fee to be refunded/paid by the claimant 3. The case to be dismissed.

    I will hopefully hear back soon, but will they let me know in the initial reply if I'm successful or will it need to be done in a court hearing?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 18th May 18, 6:13 PM
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    Coupon-mad
    Some are decided just by reading what you have submitted with no set aside hearing, and some courts will order a hearing. You will know soon enough!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • AMTF
    • By AMTF 3rd Jul 18, 12:39 PM
    • 20 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    AMTF
    I have received the Notice of Hearing for next week. Now I will frantically search the forum for advice.

    What will I need to prepare and bring with me on the day? And will I be able to apply for any additional costs after the results of this hearing, or does it need to be done beforehand?
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 3rd Jul 18, 12:56 PM
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    IamEmanresu
    Read post #6 as it has all you need.

    You should apply for costs (and unreasonable ones too) on the day and you need to take evidence with you. You may have an honest face, and honest beliefs but the judge prefers facts and evidence.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 3rd Jul 18, 1:15 PM
    • 10,631 Posts
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    The Deep
    This sounds like a FUBAR to me. If you feel that Gladstones have acted, even in the teeniest way, unprofessionally, do not be tardy in complaining to the SRA in your most robust manner.

    https://www.sra.org.uk/home/home.page

    Please watch this video

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 3rd Jul 18, 2:00 PM
    • 64,101 Posts
    • 76,680 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Also why not read the other set aside threads from last week/last month and see what they took with them and how it went?

    Someone posting here got a set aside only yesterday and asked the exact same questions you did, before they went along.

    Simply search the forum for set aside as your keywords, and change the default search to SHOW POSTS (never search 'threads' or you will be there all day, needle in a haystack)!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 3rd Jul 18, 3:36 PM
    • 1,183 Posts
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    Johnersh
    Ah interesting, this one again.

    I wouldn't necessarily try and seek strike out of an entire case every time there was a default judgment, but here, if it is truly correct that proceedings were sent to a known old address, that may be a runner....

    In any case should be decent grounds for set aside.
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
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