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  • FIRST POST
    • QuackNuts
    • By QuackNuts 9th May 18, 4:41 PM
    • 22Posts
    • 12Thanks
    QuackNuts
    Help for reply to LBC where they've done a drawing!
    • #1
    • 9th May 18, 4:41 PM
    Help for reply to LBC where they've done a drawing! 9th May 18 at 4:41 PM
    Hello again,

    I'm being bombarded with PCN's and for at least 2 of them they have sent a drawing of where the vehicle is alleged to have parked. The land owner drives round and takes photos of vehicles and sends them off to his PPC, but when we have had a photo it's just one - no proof of a period. But sometimes he sends the registration in and then does a drawing using a computer.

    We've now had an LBC for three charges, 2 of which the RK has said the vehicles were in my care but not who was driving.

    If Gladstones haven't even got the intelligence to realise a drawing won't do how can we assume they'll read a reply to an LBC?

    I'd really appreciate a voice of reason or any glimmer of light on this please.
    Many thanks.
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 9th May 18, 4:46 PM
    • 18,515 Posts
    • 23,441 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 9th May 18, 4:46 PM
    • #2
    • 9th May 18, 4:46 PM
    even if they fail to read any LBC, you must still issue a written LBC rebuttal to show any judge that you have done so and provide copies of it

    no point second guessing what a claimant or their solicitor will or wont do

    all you can do is keep batting your end , following the correct process, even if the opposition park the bus
    Last edited by Redx; 09-05-2018 at 5:07 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 9th May 18, 5:06 PM
    • 2,851 Posts
    • 3,546 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #3
    • 9th May 18, 5:06 PM
    • #3
    • 9th May 18, 5:06 PM
    WOuld be good to know the PPC, and exactly what is alleged.
    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 9th May 18, 5:12 PM
    • 2,683 Posts
    • 3,379 Thanks
    Ralph-y
    • #4
    • 9th May 18, 5:12 PM
    • #4
    • 9th May 18, 5:12 PM
    and if you are still parking there ...?


    Ralph
    • QuackNuts
    • By QuackNuts 10th May 18, 9:49 AM
    • 22 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    QuackNuts
    • #5
    • 10th May 18, 9:49 AM
    • #5
    • 10th May 18, 9:49 AM
    We're in the middle of an industrial estate so we have access and after 30 odd years without us having any hassle, the company who owns the access claims that we're trespassing. The company that owns the access changed hands about 11 years ago. A couple of years ago he used FlashPark but because it's 'disputed land' as FlashPark called it at the time it all went away with a phone call. He's now using District Enforcement has another harassment tool. On the PCN they are claiming, 'Not parked wholly within a marked bay, Parked on solid lines' and 'Unauthorised parking'. We don't park on his land we just have to manoeuvre across it.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th May 18, 12:09 AM
    • 59,521 Posts
    • 72,691 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 11th May 18, 12:09 AM
    • #6
    • 11th May 18, 12:09 AM
    You could not make this up! DRAWINGS!

    Why not send your own drawing back, of you sitting in your chair with your money firmly in your pocket and your laptop showing MSE on the screen?! This is hilarious!

    So which proud scumbag PPC idiots are using 'drawings' as evidence, DE?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • QuackNuts
    • By QuackNuts 16th May 18, 11:05 AM
    • 22 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    QuackNuts
    • #7
    • 16th May 18, 11:05 AM
    • #7
    • 16th May 18, 11:05 AM
    Sorry for the late reply, I will check I have opted for alerts on here.

    Yes, it is DE. It's diabolical. Unfortunately it is suspected that the land owner is worse than DE!! but that's a whole different can of worms but back to business - the LBC from Gladrags has reference which starts with a 1 (so I understand it is them not somebody else) and is for 3 PCNs for 3 different vehicles. One of the vehicles is ours. Two of the vehicles were in our care at the time of the PCN, the keeper of these 2 vehicles told DE this but did not name a driver. DE have taken it upon themselves to claim one of our directors was the driver.

    So this is my response to the LBC for the 3 vehicles:
    Dear Sirs,

    Thank you for your Letter Before Claim of 03/05/18 which we received on 09/05/18.

    Since proceedings have not yet been issued, the new protocol that is applicable to debt claims clearly applies and must be complied with.

    Your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your client places reliance upon.

    Your letter lacks specificity. Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires your client to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.

    We require your client to comply with its obligations by sending us the following information/documents:

    1. photographic evidence of alleged period of parking showing parking signs
    2. an explanation of the cause of action
    3. whether they are pursuing us as driver or keeper
    4. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
    5. what the details of the claim are (where it is claimed the car was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated, what contractual breach (if any) is being claimed)
    6. a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim
    7. a copy of any alleged contract with the driver
    8. a plan showing where any signs were displayed
    9. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
    10.provide details of the original charge, if they have added anything on to the original charge, what that represents and how it has been calculated.

    Yours sincerely,
    [Company name]

    I'm not familiar with the cases stated on loadsochildrens letter from the Newbies thread so have left them off, by now they are probably fully aware of them from others.

    What do you think? it's much appreciated,
    • QuackNuts
    • By QuackNuts 16th May 18, 11:08 AM
    • 22 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    QuackNuts
    • #8
    • 16th May 18, 11:08 AM
    • #8
    • 16th May 18, 11:08 AM
    Meant to let you know, for the 3 PCN's on this LBC; we received one blurry black and white photo for one vehicle, one blurry black and white photo and a drawing for the second and nothing for the third.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 16th May 18, 12:00 PM
    • 7,802 Posts
    • 10,378 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #9
    • 16th May 18, 12:00 PM
    • #9
    • 16th May 18, 12:00 PM
    Meant to let you know, for the 3 PCN's on this LBC; we received one blurry black and white photo for one vehicle, one blurry black and white photo and a drawing for the second and nothing for the third.
    Originally posted by QuackNuts
    Clearly this is a case of Gladstones finally being on the road
    for committal

    What a stupid company ????
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th May 18, 12:36 AM
    • 59,521 Posts
    • 72,691 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes send that. DE cases get worse, and using Gladstones doesn't help them!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 17th May 18, 4:46 AM
    • 10,478 Posts
    • 9,783 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    Clearly this is a case of Gladstones finally being on the road
    for committal

    What a stupid company ????
    Originally posted by beamerguy
    A stupid company that rakes in a fee win or lose.
    • QuackNuts
    • By QuackNuts 17th May 18, 2:11 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    QuackNuts
    It's in the post tonight. Just the wait for whatever rubbish they send back now.
    • QuackNuts
    • By QuackNuts 7th Jun 18, 2:34 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    QuackNuts
    Well, we have received a court claim for one of the vehicles - the one that only has a drawing. When we originally appealed against this, DE sent a letter that had "guidance from the land owner" who claims that I or anybody to do with me are not are not allowed to park and they "do not need to put any signs up."

    The land is open to the world so how can he decide who is to do with me and how can he enforce this without permits or proper signs?

    I'm concerned that his word (being the land owner) will have more value in court than mine as the defendant.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 7th Jun 18, 3:19 PM
    • 8,080 Posts
    • 7,949 Thanks
    KeithP
    That looks good.

    If you are forbidden to park there, how can you possibly agree to a contract to park there?

    Definitely cannot be a basis for forming a contract.

    My understanding is that in this situation the only way they can sue you is for trespass, and only the landholder can do that.
    .
    • Loadsofchildren123
    • By Loadsofchildren123 7th Jun 18, 3:26 PM
    • 2,224 Posts
    • 3,727 Thanks
    Loadsofchildren123
    They are admitting there are no signs? then how can there be a contract?


    You aren't parking on the land, just crossing it? Then it's a trespass and only the landowner can sue, not the PPC
    Although a practising Solicitor, my posts here are NOT legal advice, but are personal opinion based on limited facts provided anonymously by forum users. I accept no liability for the accuracy of any such posts and users are advised that, if they wish to obtain formal legal advice specific to their case, they must seek instruct and pay a solicitor.
    • QuackNuts
    • By QuackNuts 7th Jun 18, 3:46 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    QuackNuts
    We have to cross the land to get our property and it says in the lease we have the right to pass and repass. The land owner's definition of parking seems to be any moment we're on his land. The company that owns the land changed hands and we had a very good relationship with the previous people who ran it.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 7th Jun 18, 4:03 PM
    • 2,766 Posts
    • 4,781 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    in the lease we have the right to pass and repass.
    Lease has priority. You might want to have a word with the new owner and point this out as it is an interference with that lease and you could take action against them* - but a quiet word is probably best.

    *Injunction not to interfere with the lease - costs will be against them.
    About me: Capricorn. Likes: Tight defences, the tighter the better. Lucidity. Dislikes: Loquaciousness and magic words. WLTM: Someone with the facts, a private income and their own copy of the White Book.
    • QuackNuts
    • By QuackNuts 8th Jun 18, 1:45 PM
    • 22 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    QuackNuts
    Shall I mention their admission about signage and so no chance of a contract in my Defence? or does this go in my Evidence bundle?
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 8th Jun 18, 2:33 PM
    • 9,714 Posts
    • 9,546 Thanks
    The Deep
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Jun 18, 6:44 PM
    • 59,521 Posts
    • 72,691 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    We have to cross the land to get our property and it says in the lease we have the right to pass and repass.
    McClymont v Primecourt was a bit like this case, I think. Parking easements created from a right of way.

    Not sure if there is a transcript hosted by the BMPA about that one.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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