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    • trojan1964
    • By trojan1964 9th May 18, 3:34 PM
    • 18Posts
    • 1Thanks
    trojan1964
    UC/Alleged overpayment
    • #1
    • 9th May 18, 3:34 PM
    UC/Alleged overpayment 9th May 18 at 3:34 PM
    Hi i am new on here.

    I currently care for my husband who is both mentally and psychically disabled because of a serious heart attack 6 years ago.

    Since being placed on UC we have had nothing but problems and have had to basically appeal and win all the benefits my husband was receiving in welfare benefits whilst being on ESA.

    The latest was being placed after an appeal to the awarded and put into LCWRA and a backdated payment for 1,650 which and without any notification giving has been used to offset by the DWP to use in respect of an alleged overpayment which we are vigorously denying ever happened.

    We have followed the correct procedures by asking for a Mandatory Reconsideration which was refused by DWP but have been granted the right to appeal the decision out of time.

    Debt Management are stating that they have the right to hold that back payment until the Tribunals considered, which i personally feel is incorrect because evidently they are alleging an overpayment and in law have not proved that to be the case.

    Any help would be really appreciated.

    Thanks Debbie
Page 1
    • paragon909
    • By paragon909 9th May 18, 4:27 PM
    • 1,389 Posts
    • 1,394 Thanks
    paragon909
    • #2
    • 9th May 18, 4:27 PM
    • #2
    • 9th May 18, 4:27 PM
    Hi i am new on here.

    I currently care for my husband who is both mentally and psychically disabled because of a serious heart attack 6 years ago.

    Since being placed on UC we have had nothing but problems and have had to basically appeal and win all the benefits my husband was receiving in welfare benefits whilst being on ESA.

    The latest was being placed after an appeal to the awarded and put into LCWRA and a backdated payment for 1,650 which and without any notification giving has been used to offset by the DWP to use in respect of an alleged overpayment which we are vigorously denying ever happened.

    We have followed the correct procedures by asking for a Mandatory Reconsideration which was refused by DWP but have been granted the right to appeal the decision out of time.

    Debt Management are stating that they have the right to hold that back payment until the Tribunals considered, which i personally feel is incorrect because evidently they are alleging an overpayment and in law have not proved that to be the case.

    Any help would be really appreciated.

    Thanks Debbie
    Originally posted by trojan1964
    What evidence are you going to provide a court to show that you are right and DWP are wrong.... DWP won't release any funds until you either go to court or a decision maker at debt management allows them to be released. I take it the debt must be more than 1650 otherwise you would get a refund of the difference.

    It's up to you to prove you haven't ever had any over payment or the claimant. I guess you have this since your taking it to appeal?
    • trojan1964
    • By trojan1964 9th May 18, 4:52 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    trojan1964
    • #3
    • 9th May 18, 4:52 PM
    • #3
    • 9th May 18, 4:52 PM
    The evidence that shows that there was no overpayment can be drawn from the Reconsideration Notice made on the Mandatory decision.

    The evidence that they have relied on and used in the statement, and which they considered was unrelated and was evidence that i had previously used to challenge the bedroom tax.

    Thats the evidence they considered, and nothing to do with the evidence that i wanted to rely on.

    Oddly enough, the decision maker and the DWP are refusing to sign that Reconsideration Notice because more likely than not they know the evidence used, could not be used, and when it goes to Tribunal.
    • huckster
    • By huckster 10th May 18, 6:00 AM
    • 3,391 Posts
    • 1,484 Thanks
    huckster
    • #4
    • 10th May 18, 6:00 AM
    • #4
    • 10th May 18, 6:00 AM
    Surely DWP have advised you the type of overpayment e.g tax credits, housing benefit. Also have a look at your Universal Credit payment statements to check for debt deductions.

    The overpayment debt will be recorded by the Government department that had this originally and DWP Universal Credit will now have this to collect, picked up by the National Insurance number.

    When the LCWRA backdated award was calculated, this overpayment debt would have been noted and offered to UC Debt management.

    This can be resolved quite quickly if a mistake has been made. E.g someone has recorded the debt against the wrong person, due to admin error with National Insurance number. Just find out the type of debt DWP believe you have. Contact the original Government department and get their written confirmation that you owed no debt. The send this written confirmation to UD Debt management.
    The comments I post are personal opinion. Always refer to official information sources before relying on internet forums. If you have a problem with any organisation, enter into their official complaints process at the earliest opportunity, as sometimes complaints have to be started within a certain time frame.
    • trojan1964
    • By trojan1964 10th May 18, 2:34 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    trojan1964
    • #5
    • 10th May 18, 2:34 PM
    • #5
    • 10th May 18, 2:34 PM
    The alleged debt and the process in which this debt has been created is completely flawed as the DWP have failed to consider evidence and have relied on evidence unrelated to the case as a means to create a debt, which in law i would assume would be deemed unlawful.

    The Reconsideration notice made by DM has evidently relied on evidence that should not have been considered.

    But for that abuse of process their would be no debt.
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 10th May 18, 8:32 PM
    • 2,616 Posts
    • 3,033 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    • #6
    • 10th May 18, 8:32 PM
    • #6
    • 10th May 18, 8:32 PM
    Can you tell us which benefit the o/p related to.

    This is important as different benefits have differing rules around whether an overpayment is recoverable.
    https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/Benefits-Overpayment/Will-I-have-to-repay-the-overpayment

    For UC the government has ruled that all overpayments are recoverable, even those arising from official error. You can only challenge whether there is an overpayment.
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/683470/benefit-overpayment-recovery-guide.pdf

    It's not clear from your posts the nature of the overpayment, and why you believe it is not recoverable.

    You may wish to get guidance from your local CAB / advice agency.
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
    • trojan1964
    • By trojan1964 11th May 18, 3:07 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    trojan1964
    • #7
    • 11th May 18, 3:07 PM
    • #7
    • 11th May 18, 3:07 PM
    The overpayment kicked in when UC were informed by me that Carers Allowance had been awarded on appeal, and backdated.

    This entitlement to Carers allowance was as a result of an appeal against a PIP decision which was won at a Tribunal, PIP got backdated and thereafter Carers Allowance was backdated.

    My husband was put on UC June 2017, all backdated payments were credited fron January 2016.
    • trojan1964
    • By trojan1964 11th May 18, 3:21 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    trojan1964
    • #8
    • 11th May 18, 3:21 PM
    • #8
    • 11th May 18, 3:21 PM
    The point that i am trying to make is that if there was an overpayment, DWP are obliged to follow procedures before they can make that overpayment a legitement debt.

    Ignoring the Claimants evidence and relying on Claimants evidence against bedroom tax and using that evidence in a Mandatory Reconsideration Notice, was not an error, but evidently been relied upon to create this debt.

    If a tribunal was shown that notice the case would be over in a minute.

    Why should anyone wait until a Tribunal decides, when a MR is flawed and null and void?
    • paragon909
    • By paragon909 11th May 18, 3:38 PM
    • 1,389 Posts
    • 1,394 Thanks
    paragon909
    • #9
    • 11th May 18, 3:38 PM
    • #9
    • 11th May 18, 3:38 PM
    What benefit did DWP or the debt management say the over payment related to. Clearly the over payment is more than what got backdated, Otherwise you'd get a refund of the difference.

    DWP have the power, Unfortunately it's up to the claimant to prove otherwise, DWP don't just randomly make over payments to keep money as that would be fraud.
    • trojan1964
    • By trojan1964 11th May 18, 4:52 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    trojan1964
    DWP are claiming and Debt Management have been paid 1,650.

    This was after our claim for Carers allowannce was backdated 3,250.

    That is what the DWP are saying was overpaid and therefore should be recovered.

    Before that award was paid we had never received a penny for carers allowance nor through such element for caring included in ESA and UC.

    Hope this helps.
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 11th May 18, 5:25 PM
    • 2,616 Posts
    • 3,033 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    The overpayment kicked in when UC were informed by me that Carers Allowance had been awarded on appeal, and backdated.

    This entitlement to Carers allowance was as a result of an appeal against a PIP decision which was won at a Tribunal, PIP got backdated and thereafter Carers Allowance was backdated.

    My husband was put on UC June 2017, all backdated payments were credited fron January 2016.
    Originally posted by trojan1964
    When was the tribunal date, and the backdate received?
    Have you been receiving the carers element in your UC claim.
    Are you still receiving CA now?

    The Carers allowance from the due (backdated) date of Jan 2016 until your husband claimed UC (June 2017) is not recoverable by the DWP

    From June 2017 - the way your UC should be calculated is to include:
    Basic couple rate - 499
    Housing element - ?
    The LCWRA element - 328
    Caring element - 156
    The DWP will then deduct from your UC any amounts you have received in Carers Allowance for that period to arrive at the total UC payable.
    (see thread https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=74269788#post74269788)

    If the error was that the DWP failed to deduct CA in their calculations for UC, then it might well be recoverable (see my post above) re UC.
    However, if you were receiving UC when the back payment was made - then it may be possible to argue that the DWP error was made in the calculation of the backpay. This is an official error that may mean that any overpayments are not recoverable because it relates to CA not UC.

    If you appeal to tribunal you will need to set out your case as to why the o/p is not repayable very clearly. I hope you don't mind me saying so, but your posts are not clear and conflate other issues (bedroom tax) which (I think) aren't relevant.
    This is why you should see if your local advice agency can help you with your appeal.

    Start by producing a clear time line of events, benefits, and payments. Detail what elements of UC are being paid and from when.

    As I have said all UC overpayments are recoverable regardless of official error. So, the key to this may be where the DWP error arose. This is were you need to be very clear in your tribunal submission.

    It is also possible that if you weren't being paid the UC carers element, the CA overpayment should be reduced by the amount of carers element due but not paid.
    See post (https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=74269788#post74269788

    Detail it out clearly. Go to your local CAB and ask them to get advice from their central EAT team - this is not straightforward
    Last edited by Alice Holt; 11-05-2018 at 6:35 PM.
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
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