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  • FIRST POST
    • Shenstar
    • By Shenstar 9th May 18, 2:40 PM
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    Shenstar
    ParkingEye - Cinema - county court claim form
    • #1
    • 9th May 18, 2:40 PM
    ParkingEye - Cinema - county court claim form 9th May 18 at 2:40 PM
    SHENSTAR
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    ParkingEye county court claim form
    I've read through the newbies sticky thread and partly made my way through some of the other stickies.

    I have received the claim form for court and I'm in to my ninth day from the date on the form. I'm planning on putting in a defence online however just wanted some basic advice before starting.

    1. I have previously ignored all letters relating to the pcn
    2. The pcn was issued due to parking outside cinema
    3. I have proof of purchase of cinema tickets on email and bank statements


    I want some advice on when putting up a defence to the court should I mention I have tickets/statements or should I go down the more generic route with the templates and other defence options mentioned in the stickies?

    Would it be worth speaking to Cinema manager at this point or is it too late for them to cancel any county court claim?

    Parking is free of you enter registration details on computer at the cinema, I can't remember if this was done or not.

    I don't have the original pcn, letters or envelopes.

    Would anyone make a suggestion on how I should proceed?

    Thank you in advance
Page 1
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 9th May 18, 2:47 PM
    • 9,222 Posts
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    KeithP
    • #2
    • 9th May 18, 2:47 PM
    • #2
    • 9th May 18, 2:47 PM
    Would anyone make a suggestion on how I should proceed?
    Originally posted by Shenstar
    The first thing you should do is read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.

    That explains everything you need to know at this stage.

    Before considering your Defence, do the Acknowledgement of Service as described in a pictorial dropbox link from that post.

    Do that now, before anything else, to give yourself an extra two weeks to compile your Defence.

    And yes of course speak to the cinema. If they can get it cancelled, because you are such a valued customer, so much the better.
    .
    • Redx
    • By Redx 9th May 18, 4:06 PM
    • 19,236 Posts
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    Redx
    • #3
    • 9th May 18, 4:06 PM
    • #3
    • 9th May 18, 4:06 PM
    or even if they do not get it cancelled, get them to write a witness statement to the effect of the fact they have tried and failed, and do not want this to go to court

    if you dont ask , you dont get

    do the AOS as mentioned above (post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread)

    draft your defence, then post it on here below for critique

    the way this system works is

    you do the research

    you draft your defence

    you post it, people criticise it and add amendments etc, rinse and repeat

    once finished and approved you can sign and date it and email it within 28 days of the MCOL date , to the CCBC email address
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 11th May 18, 1:45 AM
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    Coupon-mad
    • #4
    • 11th May 18, 1:45 AM
    • #4
    • 11th May 18, 1:45 AM
    Same as other ParkingEye cinema defence threads. There's a recent Odeon one for you to find.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Shenstar
    • By Shenstar 12th May 18, 10:03 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Shenstar
    • #5
    • 12th May 18, 10:03 PM
    • #5
    • 12th May 18, 10:03 PM
    AOS action has been completed, building a defence now. Thanks
    • Shenstar
    • By Shenstar 30th May 18, 8:54 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Shenstar
    • #6
    • 30th May 18, 8:54 PM
    • #6
    • 30th May 18, 8:54 PM
    I'm going to go with a similar defence as the one displayed below

    there are two parking charge reference number, i'm but one date mentioned on the county court claim form. i'm assuming i only have to defend the PCN for the date mentioned and not any others?

    I have email with the cinema ticket purchase and can show bank statements. should i scan copy of these and include them in my defence or just mention them?

    i have not managed to get to the cinema again and speak to the manager, just haven't had time to get back there and speak to them, plus i wouldn't know where to park to speak to them. - so section 5 below has been amended



    !!!8220;
    In the County Court
    Claim Number: xxxxxxx

    Between

    ParkingEye Ltd

    v

    Xyour nameX


    DEFENCE




    Background - the Defendant was an authorised patron of the Odeon
    1. The Defendant is the registered keeper and driver of the vehicle in question. The Claim relates to an alleged debt arising from the driver's alleged breach of contract, when parking at xxxxx car park on 6/12/17 and . Any breach is denied, and it is further denied that there was any agreement to pay the Claimant 100 'parking charge' for the lawful conduct described below.

    2. The allegation appears to be that the 'vehicle was not authorised to use the car park' based on images by their ANPR camera at the entrance and exit to the site. This is merely an image of the vehicle in transit and is no evidence of 'No Authorisation' or not being a patron of the Odeon.

    3. The Defendant has already proved that he was a patron of the Odeon, and it is the Claimant's own failure, caused by their deliberately obscure terms and iPad that catches out far too many victims at this location, that has given rise to a 'PCN' that was not properly issued from the outset.


    Unclear terms - no agreement to pay a penalty for failure to use a hidden iPad
    4. According to the sparse, unlit signs in this car park, to avoid a Parking Charge, users of the service must either purchase a ticket by machine or phone OR must be "Patrons" of businesses, including the Odeon.

    4.1. At the time of parking on DATE, the Defendant was a patron of the Odeon cinema, and the Defendant has a transaction on a bank statement which shows payments which entitled them to 4 hours free use of the car park in question.

    4.2. Prior to the Defendant's visit, ParkingEye had only recently placed their signage within the car park creating new terms and conditions for motorists. The BPA Code of Practice v6 which applied in December 2017, states at 18.11: ''Where there is any change in the terms and conditions that materially affects the motorist then you should make these clear on your signage. Where such changes impose liability where none previously existed then you should consider a grace period to allow regular visitors to the site to adjust and familiarise themselves with the changes.''

    4.3. It is contended that the Claimant failed to alert regular local visitors to an onerous change and unexpected obligation to use an iPad at the Cinema or risk 100 penalty. The Claimant is put to strict proof, with the bar being set by Denning LJ in J Spurling Ltd v Bradshaw [1956] in the well-known 'Red Hand Rule' where hidden/unknown terms were held to be unenforceable: ''Some clauses which I have seen would need to be printed in red ink...with a red hand pointing to it before the notice could be held to be sufficient.''


    Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations - breach

    5.. The Defendant was told for the first time, that if a complaint had been made at the time of receipt of the parking charge notice (PCN), then the businesses on site (including the Odeon) had the authority to cancel the charge, but that it may now be 'too late'.

    5.1. The Defendant avers that no signs and no paperwork from the Claimant gave any hint to registered keeper recipients, that the onsite businesses could very easily cancel a charge, apparently with one email. By failing to alert cinema-goers to the iPad, and then withholding the Odeon route of cancellation/complaint from a consumer are 'misleading omissions' of material facts. These breaches of the CPUTRs 2008 have caused the unfair PCN, prevented its cancellation before proceeding started and this conduct by the Claimant has severely disadvantaged the Defendant.

    5.2. The only route offered was an 'appeal' to ParkingEye themselves, but the Defendant knew he had done nothing wrong as a matter of principle, and honestly believed from research that private parking charges and the appeals systems were unlikely to be fairly weighted in favour of consumers.

    5.3. This fact was later confirmed in the second reading of the Private Parking Code of Practice Bill on 2nd February 2018, where more than one MP named and shamed ParkingEye and the unanimously damning Hansard quotes include: ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; ''wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead''; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; ''unreasonable; operating in a disgusting way''; ''appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing''; ''outrageous scam''; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.


    No locus standi
    6. In order to issue and to pursue unpaid charges via litigation, the Claimant is required to have the written authority of the landowner, on whose behalf they are acting as an agent. ParkingEye has taken no steps to provide evidence that such authority has been supplied by the Claimant or their legal representatives, and the Claimant is put to strict proof.


    No 'legitimate interest' or commercial justification - Beavis is distinguished
    7. Even if the Claimant is able to produce such a landowner contract, it is averred that there can be no legitimate interest arguable by the Claimant in this case. When ParkingEye, all too often at this location, unfairly ticket a patron of the Odeon, any commercial justification in the form of support by the Odeon for such unfair ticketing is absent.

    7.1. With no 'legitimate interest' excuse for charging this unconscionable sum given the above facts, this Claimant is fully aware that their claim is reduced to an unrecoverable penalty and must fail. This case is fully distinguished in all respects, from ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67, where the decision turned on a legitimate interest and clear notices.


    Data Protection Act and BPA Code of Practice breach
    8. This Claimant uses ANPR camera systems to process data but fails to comply with the Information Commissioner's 'Data Protection Code of Practice for Surveillance Cameras and Personal Information' (the ICO Code). This is both a specific Data Protection and BPA Code of Practice breach.

    8.1. The ICO Code applies to all ANPR systems, and states that the private sector is required to follow it, in order to meet its legal obligations as a data processor. Members of the BPA are required to comply fully with the Data Protection Act (DPA) and all ICO rules and guidelines, as a pre-requisite of being able to use the DVLA KADOE system and in order to enforce parking charges on private land.

    8.2. The Claimant's failures to comply include, but are not limited to the following, and the Claimant is put to strict proof otherwise on all counts:

    i) Lack of an initial privacy impact assessment, and

    ii) Lack of an evaluation of proportionality and necessity, considering concepts that would impact upon fairness under the first data protection principle, and

    iii) Failure to regularly evaluate whether it was necessary and proportionate to continue using ANPR, together with an iPad as a secondary data processing system at this site, as opposed to a less privacy-intrusive method of parking enforcement (such as 'light touch' enforcement only at busy times, or manning the car park with a warden in order to consider the needs of genuine patrons), and

    iv) Failure to consider the number of complaints from the Odeon and other businesses, which would have alerted this Claimant to the fact that their 'iPad system' and woeful sign was not being seen by all genuine patrons and was therefore a wholly inappropriate method of data capture, which was unreliable at best and negligent (or even deliberately misleading) at worst, being the main cause of unfair parking charges against Odeon patrons, and

    v) Failure to prominently inform a driver in large lettering on clear signage, of the purpose of the ANPR system and the iPad system and how the data captured on both would be used, and

    vi) Lack of the 'Privacy Notice' required to deliver mandatory information about an individual's right of subject access, under the DPA. At no point has the Defendant been advised how to apply for, and what a data subject's rights are, to obtain all images and data held via a Subject Access Request from the Claimant.

    9. This Claimant has therefore failed to meet its legal obligations and has breached principle 1 (at least) of the DPA, as well as the BPA Code of Practice.


    Unlawful conduct/data use and breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015
    10. In a similar instance of DPA failure by excessive and inappropriate use of ANPR cameras - confirmed on this Claimant's Trade Body (BPA) website in a 2013 article urging its members to comply - Hertfordshire Constabulary was issued with an enforcement notice. The force were ordered to stop processing people's information via ANPR until they could comply. The Information Commissioner ruled that the collection of the information was specifically illegal; breaching principle one of the DPA.

    11. The Court's attention will be drawn to the case of Andre Agassi v S Robinson (HM Inspector of Taxes). Whilst not wholly aligned to the issues in this case, it is on all fours with the above point, because of the principle it extols that no one should profit from their unlawful conduct. Paragraph 20 of the Transcript of that case states: ''It is common ground that, whatever costs may be recoverable by a litigant in respect of professional services such as those provided by Tenon to the appellant, they cannot include the cost of any activities which are unlawful''. Paragraph 28 continues - ''...cannot on any view recover the cost of activities performed by Tenon which it was not lawful for them to perform.''

    11.1. Further, in RTA (Business Consultants) Limited v Bracewell [2015] EWHC 630 (QB) (12 March 2015), at paragraph 34 the Judge discusses the relevance of the public law principle going back well over 200 years, that no man should profit from his crime; it is submitted that this is particularly relevant in this action. The Judge cited Lord Mansfield CJ to explain that: ''The principle of public policy is this; ex dolo malo non oritur actio. No Court will lend its aid to a man who founds his cause of action upon an immoral or an illegal act. If [...] the cause of action appears to arise ex turpi causa, or the transgression of a positive law of this country, there the Court says he has no right to be assisted. It is upon that ground the Court goes; not for the sake of the defendant, but because they will not lend their aid to such a plaintiff.''

    12. Even if there was a purported contract between the Claimant and the Defendant, it was illegal at its formation because it was incapable of being created without an illegal act (due to non-compliance with the ICO requirements at the outset, before enforcement started using ANPR systems at this site).

    12.1. Where a contract is illegal when formed, neither party will acquire rights under that contract, regardless of whether or not there was an intention to break the law; the contract will be void and treated as if it had never been entered into. As such, the asserted contract cannot be enforced.

    12.2. To add weight, the Defendant also cites from ParkingEye Ltd v Somerfield Stores Ltd [2012] EWCA Civ 1338. Whilst the facts of that case differ, due to the arguments between the two commercial parties, the Judge's comments at paragraph 29 of the Transcript of Somerfield are of importance, where he discussed ParkingEye's misleading letters to consumers, whereby they had committed the tort of deceit. : ''At common law, historically, a distinction has been drawn between cases where the guilty party intended from the time of entering the contract unlawfully and cases where the intention to perform unlawfully was only made subsequently''. Laws LJ, in Somerfield, concluded that ParkingEye did not set out to deceive consumers before they signed the contract with Somerfield, so the contract was upheld in that case.

    12.2.1. Differently in this case, it is asserted that the Claimant did deliberately or negligently break the DPA. Being a BPA member with access to a wealth of ICO and DVLA-led data compliance information, relevant articles, compliance events and specific parking & DPA related legal advice for members, and given that this Claimant has its own in-house Legal Team and solicitors, it cannot justify nor plead ignorance to excuse their conduct in failing to meet their legal obligations both before enforcement and by way of regular evaluations to avoid just this sort of data abuse.

    12.2.2. At paragraphs 65-74 of the Somerfield transcript, Laws LJ set out three factors which need to be considered in a defence of illegality. The Defendant submits that the key issues in this action are that:

    (i) the commission of an illegal wrong being present at the time of entering the contract means that the Claimant will not be able to enforce the contract.

    (ii) the illegality is central to the contract and is not merely a minor aspect, thus it should not be held to be too remote so as to render the contract enforceable.

    (iii) the nature of the illegality: in this case it was a breach of legal obligations regarding data, and not merely a civil tort as in Somerfield. The gravity of the illegality is therefore far greater.

    13. The Defendant avers that a breach of the DPA and failure to comply with ICO rules regarding data captured by ANPR, also transgresses the tests of fairness and transparency of consumer contracts, as set out in the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (enacted after the final hearing in Beavis and not considered in that case).

    13.1. The excessive, inappropriate and unjustified use of ANPR alongside a hidden iPad system by this claimant is both unfair and lacking in transparency for an average consumer and as such, this claim must fail.


    Unconscionable and unrecoverable inflation of the 'parking charge'
    14. In addition to the original parking charge, for which liability is denied, the Claimants have artificially inflated the value of the Claim by adding purported Solicitor's Costs of 50, which I submit have not actually been incurred by the Claimant.

    14.1. Whilst 50 may be recoverable in an instance where a claimant has used a legal firm to prepare a claim, ParkingEye Ltd have not expended any such sum in this case. This Claimant has a Legal Team with salaried in-house Solicitors and it files hundreds of similar 'cut & paste' robo-claims per month, not incurring any legal cost per case. I put the Claimant to strict proof to the contrary because the in-house Solicitors cannot possibly be believed to be paid in the millions per annum for their services.

    15. The added 'legal' cost is in fact an artificially invented figure, which represents a cynical attempt to circumvent the Small Claims costs rules and achieve double recovery. In Beavis, only the parking charge itself (85) was pursued and the sum was scrutinised by the Supreme Court and held to already include a significant sum in profit; being a pre-set sum dressed up as a fee or charge agreed in contract. This was already significantly over and above the very minimal costs of operating an automated ticketing regime, and it was held that the claim could not have been pleaded as damages, and would have failed.

    15.1. Similarly, in Somerfield a 75 parking charge was not held to be a penalty but a sum mentioned in the harassing letters of double that amount, almost certainly would be.

    16. The defendant denies the claim in its entirety voiding any liability to the claimant for all amounts claimed due to the aforementioned reasons. The Court is invited to dismiss the Claim, and to allow such Defendant's costs as are permissible under Civil Procedure Rule 27.14.

    I confirm that the facts in this defence are true to the best of my knowledge and belief.


    Name/signature

    Date

    in summary.... is this type of defence sufficient, do i need to add anything further?

    should i include scanned documents of bank statements or anything like that to show i was at the cinema at the tiume?

    should i try and get pictures of signage and how difficult it is to know an ipad needs to be used to enter car details?
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 30th May 18, 9:18 PM
    • 3,429 Posts
    • 4,260 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #7
    • 30th May 18, 9:18 PM
    • #7
    • 30th May 18, 9:18 PM
    You will have understood from post 2 of the newbies thread that evidence is NOT included. It's just the defence document.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 30th May 18, 9:42 PM
    • 9,222 Posts
    • 9,410 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #8
    • 30th May 18, 9:42 PM
    • #8
    • 30th May 18, 9:42 PM
    Your Defence must be filed by 4pm on Monday 4th June.

    You'll be sending it by email, so you have a few more days to hone it to perfection.
    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 31st May 18, 1:19 AM
    • 61,511 Posts
    • 74,393 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 31st May 18, 1:19 AM
    • #9
    • 31st May 18, 1:19 AM
    is this type of defence sufficient,
    Well I wrote that one very recently and I would like to see it used more, and certainly if yours was about a keypad/iPad inside the Odeon, then IMHO, it's perfect for your case. ParkingEye use two data streams that are BOTH hidden from Cinema users so you had no chance with this unexpected set-up, unless there were flashing lights and an arrow pointing to the keypad before you could get past a barrier to watch the film!

    Was your cinema the Odeon or are you going to have to make edits to change details?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Shenstar
    • By Shenstar 31st May 18, 11:25 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Shenstar
    yes my cinema was Odeon.

    I think the defence seems pretty tight and well written and appropriate for me
    • Shenstar
    • By Shenstar 31st May 18, 11:54 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Shenstar
    I cant fit the whole defence in the number of lines required? any suggestions
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 1st Jun 18, 12:03 AM
    • 9,222 Posts
    • 9,410 Thanks
    KeithP
    I cant fit the whole defence in the number of lines required? any suggestions
    Originally posted by Shenstar
    Yes, re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread where you will find Bargepole's walkthrough. That tells you not to put anything in that box.

    Read the already provided guidance for further detail.

    Didn't post #8 above give you a hint that you might be doing this wrongly?

    Less than two hours ago I wrote this post:
    forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=74352109#post74352109

    You might find it useful too.
    Last edited by KeithP; 01-06-2018 at 12:20 AM.
    .
    • Shenstar
    • By Shenstar 13th Jul 18, 10:35 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Shenstar
    oh might have done that bit wrong

    i'm now on the stage where i have to return n180 questionnaire and also serve copies on all other parties

    is there a particular way i should do this?
    • Shenstar
    • By Shenstar 13th Jul 18, 10:43 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Shenstar
    i'm following this https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=71763411#post71763411
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 13th Jul 18, 11:05 PM
    • 61,511 Posts
    • 74,393 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Perfect that's the right advice there from a regular poster, IamEmanresu.

    So file the N180 to the court by email, as per KeithP's post, and also email a copy to PE:

    enforcement@parkingeye.co.uk

    What do you mean you filed the Defence wrong, just that you squeezed it in pointlessly on MCOL, but managed to fit it in, or that you cut whole bits out?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Shenstar
    • By Shenstar 14th Jul 18, 10:18 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    Shenstar
    So I can use email to serve the n180?

    Keiths post suggests its the defence you email, I'm on the return the questionnaire stage
    can i just email it from my email or do i have to use the "money claim online" website and use that to return the questionnaire N180

    On the N149A it says I must file it at the county court and gives a postal address for northampton county court business centre. and then also says i must serve it on all other parties. How exactly do i do this - do i have to go to the post office and record deliver this n180 or can i email it from my regular em ail account after taking pictures of it and converting it to PDF format?


    I cut some bits out the defence, so i messed up - but that was sent using the money claim online website. I didn't use a PDF
    Last edited by Shenstar; 14-07-2018 at 10:30 AM. Reason: add more info
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