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  • FIRST POST
    • Bobb12345
    • By Bobb12345 9th May 18, 12:04 PM
    • 8Posts
    • 5Thanks
    Bobb12345
    UK CPM Parking 'fine'
    • #1
    • 9th May 18, 12:04 PM
    UK CPM Parking 'fine' 9th May 18 at 12:04 PM
    Hi All,

    I have had a look through the newbie parking Tickets, Fines and Parking, but can't find exactly what it is I need.

    I live in a block of flats that were advertised for rent as including a parking space, and up until now I have never had an issue. I have never been informed by either letting agent, landlord or property management company that I would need to display a parking permit in the windscreen of my car, so I have never had one, assuming that it was included as part of the rent.

    However, this morning, my company (as I have a company car) forwarded on a letter to me, from the car park management company UK-CPM. This was from the 04.04.2018 and I received the email from my company today 09.05.2018.

    I now understand that I am meant to have a parking permit for the parking space (because of the fine) and of course I would have paid for one, had I known I had needed one previously.

    What advise would you give with regards to liability for the fine? Would the letting agent be responsible for advertising the property as having an allocated parking space?

    I really appreciate any help any of you can provide with this.
Page 1
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 9th May 18, 1:24 PM
    • 4,116 Posts
    • 5,844 Thanks
    Half_way
    • #2
    • 9th May 18, 1:24 PM
    • #2
    • 9th May 18, 1:24 PM
    It's not a fine, and why do you need a permit if its your space?
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • Bobb12345
    • By Bobb12345 9th May 18, 1:45 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Bobb12345
    • #3
    • 9th May 18, 1:45 PM
    • #3
    • 9th May 18, 1:45 PM
    Hi Half_way,
    I totally agree. I don't need a parking permit (at least I shouldn't do). What should the next steps be? Just ignore any further notices? The only issue is they come via my company (as it's a company car) and it may cause issues with them.
    Any advice appreciated.
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 9th May 18, 4:20 PM
    • 2,669 Posts
    • 1,527 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    • #4
    • 9th May 18, 4:20 PM
    • #4
    • 9th May 18, 4:20 PM
    If you refer to the Newbie section, one click back, second post down, post #1 you will find the following: -
    In the case of a company car or hire car, if you get a windscreen ticket you MUST appeal before day 28 (well before day 21 when it's an IPC firm which only 'offers' 21 days to appeal - check the PCN). This is in order to hook the PPC in your direction, before they get a chance to get the keeper's details from the DVLA.

    You should also warn the owner/keeper (Fleet Manager) not to pay if they do get a letter about it because they have no business to get involved in a fake PCN you have already appealed as driver, and you won't reimburse them if they are daft enough to pay it.
    • Bobb12345
    • By Bobb12345 9th May 18, 4:42 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Bobb12345
    • #5
    • 9th May 18, 4:42 PM
    • #5
    • 9th May 18, 4:42 PM
    Hi Le-Kirk,

    I read that, but I haven't received a windscreen ticket. It has been sent directly to the company and they are in the process of sending it to me, and as such the appeal process is different right? The company won't pay, they'll forward it onto me.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 9th May 18, 4:44 PM
    • 18,114 Posts
    • 22,902 Thanks
    Redx
    • #6
    • 9th May 18, 4:44 PM
    • #6
    • 9th May 18, 4:44 PM
    then the company is wrong

    they should name the hirer/lessee to the PPC so they are not liable under POFA2012

    this has been the case for 5.5 years , so its time they understood their duty under the law

    if you do get this notice, then you appeal it as hirer/lessee/keeper (not as driver) following the edna basher advice in that thread (if its a hire/lease vehicle of course)
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Bobb12345
    • By Bobb12345 9th May 18, 5:00 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Bobb12345
    • #7
    • 9th May 18, 5:00 PM
    • #7
    • 9th May 18, 5:00 PM
    Hi Redx
    The letter was sent to the company as a To Whom it May Concern and doesn't name me as the authorised driver. Once I receive it I will appeal it following the edna basher advice in the thread, as it's a hire/lease/company vehicle.
    It's so massively complex to appeal these tickets. I have received no communication from either landlord/ letting agent/ owner of the flat that you require a parking permit to park outside the property you reside in. At present I have thrown it back to the letting agent to investigate this. Ultimately, I hold the landlord responsible for not letting tenants know about this illegitimate parking company. It's ridiculous.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 9th May 18, 5:05 PM
    • 18,114 Posts
    • 22,902 Thanks
    Redx
    • #8
    • 9th May 18, 5:05 PM
    • #8
    • 9th May 18, 5:05 PM
    we agree , you are definitely NOT the first to come across this sc@m

    the company cannot name you as "authorised driver", only as KEEPER or lessee or hirer - they have no idea who was driving the vehicle at the time, and you dont tell anyone who it may have been

    there are thousands of "authorised drivers" in england and wales , myself included (or authorised insured drivers if you will)

    could have been a mechanic whilst being serviced , or a police person moving it after an incident on the road

    you are the authorised KEEPER of the vehicle on behalf of the company

    what you have to realise is the number of legal entities involved in this, so never blab about who the driver may have been , its not helpful

    these are some of the entities

    OWNER
    REGISTERED KEEPER
    KEEPER
    HIRER
    LESSEE
    DRIVER

    nobody should blab about being the last one capiche ?
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Ralph-y
    • By Ralph-y 9th May 18, 5:10 PM
    • 2,606 Posts
    • 3,262 Thanks
    Ralph-y
    • #9
    • 9th May 18, 5:10 PM
    • #9
    • 9th May 18, 5:10 PM
    OK you will need to tell us what your lease actually says about this

    in the mean time .... to let you know all about these scammers (Hansard) .....


    https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

    ''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

    These are the exact words used, so you should quote them to your MP in a complaint and ask him/her to contact Sir Greg Knight MP if he wants further information about this scam.



    Ralph
    • Bobb12345
    • By Bobb12345 9th May 18, 5:16 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Bobb12345
    Hi Redx,
    These so called parking companies are effectively a scam. How can a landlord introduce this and not inform anyone? Surely that's illegal! I have faith that the company will not name me as a driver, and under no circumstances would I ever admit to being the driver.
    I guess I now have to wait for the documentation from the PPC. What happens then? To be honest, it still isn't clear to me as to what I need to do.
    Many thanks for the advice so far.
    • Bobb12345
    • By Bobb12345 9th May 18, 5:20 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Bobb12345
    Hi Ralph-y,
    The lease states 'To park private vehicle only at the premises
    To park in the space allocated at the premises, if the Tenant is allocated a car parking space.'
    The parking space for the flat is marked as the space to park in the car park and I have never ever parked outside of this.
    I shall also be writing to my MP about this behaviour by the PPC in question. I genuinely thought it was a joke when I looked at the fine and saw it was where I lived. At the moment the letting agent and landlord are having to deal with this. I refuse to pay it, but understand I may need to get involved in a discussion with the PPC if necessary.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 9th May 18, 5:23 PM
    • 18,114 Posts
    • 22,902 Thanks
    Redx
    if this was "illegal" then that means the law has been broken and they should be reported , more likely for fraud

    I doubt that they have done anything illegal, I suspect you dont know what that word actually means

    somebody has engaged them to manage the car park, probably the MA , WHICH THE LANDLORD and the LETTING AGENCY should be aware of

    this is an extremely common sc@m which even the MP,s know about yet you are only just finding out about

    you need to do a lot more research to understand what is actually going on here

    this is a civil charge and could end up in civil court, your local small claims court to be exact, like a lot of the others in the same boat

    its appeal once , as keeper, following the edna basher advice, then ignore anything except an LBC or an MCOL within 6 years

    ie:- ignore the debt collector letters which we dont care about

    that NEWBIES FAQ tells you everything you need to know

    for specifics, check similar threads by other people who have been where you are now , be they in private vehicles or in hire/company vehicles

    yes its complicated, which is why we have been lobbying MP,s to change it , which is why they debated it 3 months ago in the house of commons

    nothing will change until the new BILL becomes LAW

    but you will need grounds and proof to prove something is "illegal" and not just "immoral" or underhand

    ps:- this is not a "fine" its an INVOICE

    DO NOT PHONE OR CONTACT THE PPC about this other than to do the lessee appeal (do not go off half cocked or blabbing about the matter to the wrong people)
    Last edited by Redx; 09-05-2018 at 5:46 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Bobb12345
    • By Bobb12345 9th May 18, 5:38 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Bobb12345
    Hi Redx,
    I never said it was illegal, I implied it possibly was. I suspect the landlord has engaged the services of the PPC without telling anyone, at least not informed the letting agent or Landlord, or if they had been notified, they have communicated nothing of any sort to me. There are some small signs up, but they are not exactly legible.
    I shall follow the edna basher advice and then do nothing and see what happens. I will ensure I ignore all letters. I appreciate it may end up in the small claims court. It's such a massive inconvenience and I could understand it if the vehicle was perhaps parked in anyway illegally, but it wasn't. It was parked in the allocated parking space.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 9th May 18, 5:54 PM
    • 18,114 Posts
    • 22,902 Thanks
    Redx
    you need to remove the word "illgal" from your brain, this is a private parking matter which a judge may decide upon in civil court

    there is nothing "illegal" or "possibly illegal" going on , just a sc@m on private land that hasnt been reined in due to no legislation in place as yet, hence why the MP,s are doing something about it

    dont make it into something it isnt

    the MA will have signed a contract with UK CPM, and once UK CPM have driven away those who should not be there they find dubious ways of sc@mming the remaining victims, namely the residents

    you need to do a lot more reading and research to get up to speed on this , but it wont help if you think there may be criminal activities going on , because there arent , so pointless aleging that there are

    and yes you used the word illegal, I didnt just pluck it out of thin air

    Surely that's illegal!

    for it to be illegal then they will have to have broken a law laid down in parliament, if so , what law are you saying they have broken ?

    its misleading , its nefarious , its underhand , its an immoral way of sc@mming the residents as victims, but the MA played into their hands when they signed the contract

    the PPC is doing what they want when the MA gave them license to print money, usually because the MA hasnt a clue what they have signed up to

    private parking company wheezes were on watchdog a few weeks ago, and regularly appear on tv and in the papers

    stick to the facts and avoid speculation, thats my suggestion
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Bobb12345
    • By Bobb12345 9th May 18, 6:07 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Bobb12345
    Hi Redx,
    Fair point. I have removed the word. You are correct that it's a sc@m on private land. Hopefully the MPs will have something in law very soon, to drive these types of company out of business. It's definitely misleading, nefarious and underhand. You are right, they haven't broken any law. I guess the MA doesn't have a clue what they have signed up to.
    Your advice is sound. I'll ensure I stick to the facts and not speculate on things. Thank you once again.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 10th May 18, 1:51 AM
    • 57,401 Posts
    • 71,014 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    You should read the thousands of other residential threads here, this is discussed every day. Loads of threads, all the same.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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