Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • beattiesman
    • By beattiesman 8th May 18, 7:25 PM
    • 272Posts
    • 8Thanks
    beattiesman
    nursing / care home
    • #1
    • 8th May 18, 7:25 PM
    nursing / care home 8th May 18 at 7:25 PM
    my mum has decided it may be time to go in a home,my brother bought the flat for her over 20 years ago. 2 years ago the local council have put in a wet room & a ramp outside & arranged care workers to come in of a morning to wash & dress her & back of a night to undress her,what is the procedure do I get in touch with her local council & ask for a social worker
Page 1
    • 3card
    • By 3card 8th May 18, 8:11 PM
    • 178 Posts
    • 64 Thanks
    3card
    • #2
    • 8th May 18, 8:11 PM
    • #2
    • 8th May 18, 8:11 PM
    In the absence of any other replies i thought i would reply with our family situation

    Mu Mom had to go into hospital and during her stay it was obvious she wouldnt be able to look after herself at home.
    Being as she was in the hospital i think it was easier to get the relevant departments involved

    The 1st step was for the council social care department to assign a social worker to my Moms case and then a few visits to see my Mom followed by an assessment

    If i were you my 1st port of call would be to the local social care team and let them know what you are looking at and they will advise the correct procedure.

    Good luck and just remember some of the social workers out there can be hard to deal with
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 8th May 18, 8:18 PM
    • 5,211 Posts
    • 5,818 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    • #3
    • 8th May 18, 8:18 PM
    • #3
    • 8th May 18, 8:18 PM
    Does she have the means to pay for residential care? If not she will need to be assessed by social services, but be aware It is not easy to get approval for LA funded residential care.
    • elsien
    • By elsien 8th May 18, 8:31 PM
    • 16,738 Posts
    • 42,240 Thanks
    elsien
    • #4
    • 8th May 18, 8:31 PM
    • #4
    • 8th May 18, 8:31 PM
    If she has the money she can move into a care home whenever she likes, if they assess they can meet her needs. However if she chooses an expensive one then she will have to move when she stops being able to self fund unless family are willing and able to pay the difference. Which can be hundreds a month.

    If she is looking for the local authority to fund her (I'm presuming not the level of nursing needs that would qualify her for health funding) then her starting point would be to request an updated care needs assessment from the local authority. If she doesn't actually need residential care then they will be reluctant to agree it as (funding aside) most people do better in their own homes. But if her needs have changed this could identify any new needs she has that currently aren't being met, and offer more support.

    Why does she want to go into care? Does she need more help, is she lonely does she want to feel more secure, has she considered the half way options such as housing with care? (Own flat but staff on hand when needed.) More daytime activities?

    Was there any agreement when the wet room etc were put in about finances if she needed to move on?
    Has mum been to look at homes at the level she can afford to get a feeling for what they offer?
    Last edited by elsien; 08-05-2018 at 8:39 PM.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • SevenOfNine
    • By SevenOfNine 9th May 18, 2:44 AM
    • 1,357 Posts
    • 1,349 Thanks
    SevenOfNine
    • #5
    • 9th May 18, 2:44 AM
    • #5
    • 9th May 18, 2:44 AM
    If the local authority have already put care visits in place twice a day (whether or not she is self funding for it - paying via the Council), then she's already been assigned to a social worker, call Adult Social Services & ask who it is.

    That was the case with my late FiL.
    Last edited by SevenOfNine; 09-05-2018 at 2:46 AM.
    Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it.
    • beattiesman
    • By beattiesman 9th May 18, 9:09 AM
    • 272 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    beattiesman
    • #6
    • 9th May 18, 9:09 AM
    update
    • #6
    • 9th May 18, 9:09 AM
    thanks for your answers so far, the situation is complicated as my brother lives with my mum & he has took equity release on the flat so as I understand there wont be any money or not a lot if the flat is sold,she has very little savings so couldn't fund herself ,even though he lives with her he does very little to help she is in a wheelchair & has very limited mobility she cant cook anything or make a cup of tea .
    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 9th May 18, 9:19 AM
    • 63,248 Posts
    • 370,414 Thanks
    PasturesNew
    • #7
    • 9th May 18, 9:19 AM
    • #7
    • 9th May 18, 9:19 AM
    For the record:
    A care home is where you live and are fed, cleaned, washing's done - and you bobble about, or get pushed about, to sit and chat with others. Any prescribed meds are dispensed.

    A nursing home is where you specifically require the services of a qualified nurse, to aid with illnesses where dosages and medications might be variable. Mostly, the people who require nursing care are not able to get about by themselves and participate/eat as others do of their own free will and ability.

    Care homes are without any on site qualified nurse. The district nurse might visit individual patients to, say, change dressings or similar. If they need a Doctor/similar, the local GP is called out. If they need a Hospital visit, transport/companion are sorted and it's all dealt with.

    Nursing homes employ an on site nurse, who is the primary medical carer for patients' medical needs who live at that home.

    Some provide both services, at differing prices, to an assortment of residents, who come under the nursing category and care category. Some homes are just for care. Some are just for nursing.

    If your relative is in "just a care home" and they become ill and require nursing, the care home will assess their needs before hospital discharge and might "reject" them, disallowing them from returning to the care home as they are unable to provide the nursing aspects.

    Some care homes are part of a group of care homes, where they have one or more nursing home facilities, so a resident could be accepted into the nursing facility as their needs increase.

    Ask the homes which sort they are, in short "if my relative were deemed to need nursing care, could they stay here? And what if they were diagnosed as terminal, can they stay here?"
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 9th May 18, 9:21 AM
    • 29,485 Posts
    • 75,254 Thanks
    Mojisola
    • #8
    • 9th May 18, 9:21 AM
    • #8
    • 9th May 18, 9:21 AM
    my mum has decided it may be time to go in a home,my brother bought the flat for her over 20 years ago. 2 years ago the local council have put in a wet room & a ramp outside
    Originally posted by beattiesman
    When my parents had a bathroom fitted by the council, the agreement was that they would repay the cost if they moved out within five years.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 10th May 18, 8:03 AM
    • 20,366 Posts
    • 54,739 Thanks
    Pollycat
    • #9
    • 10th May 18, 8:03 AM
    • #9
    • 10th May 18, 8:03 AM
    When my parents had a bathroom fitted by the council, the agreement was that they would repay the cost if they moved out within five years.
    Originally posted by Mojisola
    The Council fitted a walk in shower for my Dad in their senior persons, warden controlled flat, although sadly he'd been dead for almost 2 years when they came to do it.
    2 blokes just turned up at my Mum's flat one day and started work.
    Nothing was said about repaying.
    That was about 5 years ago.

    When she moved to a council bungalow (a couple of years ago), she had to fund her own walk-in shower which she needed.
    The Council had to approve the work before it went ahead and check it after it was completed.

    Re the thread topic:
    I've had this conversation with my Mum when she throws a strop.
    As she won't be self-funding, she can't just say 'I want to go into a home'.
    She will need to be assessed for need.
    • margaretclare
    • By margaretclare 10th May 18, 10:26 AM
    • 10,158 Posts
    • 17,194 Thanks
    margaretclare
    When my parents had a bathroom fitted by the council, the agreement was that they would repay the cost if they moved out within five years.
    Originally posted by Mojisola
    I've heard from various people over the years that 'the council would pay' for our new bathroom, hand-rail down the steps at the back into the garden, even when we needed the asbestos roof tiles replaced. We've never managed to get anything done by the council! Everything we've done here over the years, updating this 1930s bungalow, has been paid for by us.

    A disability-friendly bathroom, I would submit, is one of the most essential modifications/improvements needed for older people.

    As of this week I'm in process of helping my eldest GD with her RTB. Her fellow-tenant has declared his intention to give up the tenancy because he wants his own space. Thank goodness I've continued saving and investing! She never had a legacy from her paternal grandad, although her brother did - well, he was the only boy (grandad was a right sexist). So I'm helping her with the deposit on a council mortgage.
    r ic wisdom funde, r wear ic eald.
    Before I found wisdom, I became old.
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 10th May 18, 2:31 PM
    • 5,211 Posts
    • 5,818 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    thanks for your answers so far, the situation is complicated as my brother lives with my mum & he has took equity release on the flat so as I understand there wont be any money or not a lot if the flat is sold,she has very little savings so couldn't fund herself ,even though he lives with her he does very little to help she is in a wheelchair & has very limited mobility she cant cook anything or make a cup of tea .
    Originally posted by beattiesman
    How did he manage to get equity release on her flat? What happened to that money?
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 10th May 18, 3:17 PM
    • 20,494 Posts
    • 16,283 Thanks
    agrinnall
    How did he manage to get equity release on her flat? What happened to that money?
    Originally posted by Keep pedalling
    I thought about asking the same question, then realised that it says in the OP:

    my brother bought the flat for her over 20 years ago.
    Originally posted by beattiesman
    so I'm guessing it was always in his name.
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 10th May 18, 3:59 PM
    • 22,028 Posts
    • 10,705 Thanks
    lisyloo
    what is the procedure do I get in touch with her local council & ask for a social worker
    Find out who her caseworker is and ask for a re-assesment.
    She can't just decide she'd like to go into a home and have tax payers pay for it. It would only be paid for by the LA if appropriate.
    We have fairly recently visited a number of homes and some of those within LA budget are absolutely disgusting - dressing hanging off, stench of urine etc. and most people say - my mum/dad is NOT going in there.
    My MIL is LA funded and we found it hard to find a nice place within LA budget.

    she is in a wheelchair & has very limited mobility she cant cook anything or make a cup of tea
    Carers can come in up to 4 times a day and commuity meals can be delivered (they aren't great to be honest).
    So nothing you've said there would necessitate a care home.
    Can she bear her own weight? If so she could go to a day center for company (mght be free from LA).

    So in summary.
    If you can't pay then going into a home is based on NEED.
    Many LA care homes are not nice.
    The brief details you've given do not necessitate needing full time care.

    Hope that helps.
    PM me if I can help.
    MIL and FIL went into nursing homes recently so I'm up on all the benefits.

    Anecdote - recently FIL needed to go into a nuring home. We wanted them both (MIL & FIL) in the same place, they wanted FIL to go somewhere cheaper. We had to fight hard with both head and heart arguments to get them into the same place despite them being married for 60 years. He was bed bound and she is difficult to get into a car so they would not have seen each other very much if they were seperated.
    As it happened he died 11 days into his stay but they were able to spend some last moments together in those last days as we could take her upstaris in a wheelchair.
    The point of the anecdote is to point out that LA budgets are tight enough to split up long term married couples, so they won't put people in homes unless they need to there. Sending people round up to 4 times a day is cheaper.
    Apart from the money - it's definitely a downward step both physically and mentally.
    Last edited by lisyloo; 10-05-2018 at 4:14 PM.
    • perfect10
    • By perfect10 11th May 18, 8:52 AM
    • 322 Posts
    • 318 Thanks
    perfect10
    My mum faced the same a few years ago - she is in a wheelchair and could not do anything for herself. my dad was her main carer but it made him very unwell and he could not continue. She went in a care home for respite when my dad was unwell but he could no longer look after her after this and so she was assessed for long term care. It was difficult as social care kept trying to make my dad look after her again at home, when he was far too ill himself and in the end I had to get a doctors report for my dad which proved he could no longer look after her, it was all very stressful for him and us as a family.



    You need to identify the social worker but be warned they may try to make her stay at home and if your brother is classed as her carer then they may try to put alot of pressure (and guilt) on him to continue.
    Entering a few comps here and there still waiting for that elusive 'big' win!!
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 11th May 18, 9:57 AM
    • 29,485 Posts
    • 75,254 Thanks
    Mojisola
    My mum faced the same a few years ago
    Originally posted by perfect10
    My Dad as well - he was a 'bed blocker' in hospital. He was assessed face-to-face by the nursing staff, the hospital social worker, the physio and the occupational therapist as needing residential care.

    The funding committee, who had never seen him, decided that he could go home with four daily visits.

    The doctor refused to discharge him because he said Dad would be back in A&E within days after falling if he sent home without 24/7 care.

    We could see that he was deteriorating in the hospital environment and the care home we thought would suit him best were holding a room for him and we didn't want to lose it so, in the end, we had to move him to the care home as a self-funder.

    When the care home assessed him and said exactly the same as everyone else, the committee relented and agreed that he needed residential care.

    What was so ridiculous was that the care home was cheaper for them because they would have paid the bulk of the home carer costs while all we needed for the care home was a deferred payment scheme until his house was sold.
    • elsien
    • By elsien 11th May 18, 10:04 AM
    • 16,738 Posts
    • 42,240 Thanks
    elsien

    You need to identify the social worker but be warned they may try to make her stay at home and if your brother is classed as her carer then they may try to put alot of pressure (and guilt) on him to continue.
    Originally posted by perfect10
    It is entirely possible that there isn't a named social worker. Where I am the cases only stay open as long as there is active need being addressed. If someone is trundling along with the support in place then the case will be closed and re-opened/re-allocated if things change. And the annual reviews don't happen either unless somone really pushes.

    As an aside, hospitals often say people need residential care when they may not - it's their default setting to get them out more quickly. Some people clearly do, but hospitals never seem identify lesser restrictive options such as housing with care as a possibility. And they prioritise physical safety over psychological wellbeing, which means that they are very risk averse.
    Last edited by elsien; 11-05-2018 at 10:07 AM.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 11th May 18, 10:15 AM
    • 22,028 Posts
    • 10,705 Thanks
    lisyloo
    We had much better experiences which goes to show it might be a bit of a postcode lottery.
    The anecdotes all enforce the point that taxpayer fuding will only be available if there is a real NEED and they will question why her son can't help especially if he is younger, presumably more able - is he claiming carers allowance??

    We had very good experiences, although I don't think there were alternative in our case.
    We found the social worker to be both uderstanding (that our parents did not accurately express their needs - mum would complain about everything and dad nothing) and also generous - FIL did not really need help dressing but the company was extremely beneficial for his well-being. Mum got a free trip to a day centre weekly with transport and Dad got a carer to visit once a week to go out for coffee. I consider that to be quite generous, but in our postcode they did seem to understand that keeping people out of care/hospital is cheaper in the long run.

    The authorities did not expect FIL (89) to look after MIL although we did take him to the meeting to show him struggling to walk and breaking down saying he couldn't cope (either physically or mentally).

    The only issue we had was that they didn't want to put FIL in the same home that they funded for MIL because there were cheaper places available.
    We fought them and made it clear we'd fight them all the way.
    They gave in.
    I suspect partly because they didn't want him bed blocking at 3K per week when the care home was 850, but you have to have articulate people who know their rights to stand up for you otherwise the end result may be one of the dreadful cold, stinky, awful homes.
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 11th May 18, 10:18 AM
    • 22,028 Posts
    • 10,705 Thanks
    lisyloo
    As an aside, hospitals often say people need residential care when they may not
    We also experienced this.
    The hospital could do no more for Dad so they wanted to get rid of him.
    The care home said he never should have been discharged and his needs were understated by the hospital.
    Note as above there is a financial agenda here. In my area (bristol/bath) a normaly hospital bed is about 3K per week, a decent nursing home is 850, carers to visit at home are 15.
    • seashore22
    • By seashore22 11th May 18, 10:25 AM
    • 1,111 Posts
    • 2,518 Thanks
    seashore22
    OP, have you resolved the situation with the roof yet? That will still need paying even if mum goes into a home.

    I hope your brother will now be paying up since it appears he will be the sole occupier of the flat.
    Last edited by seashore22; 11-05-2018 at 10:27 AM.
    • margaretclare
    • By margaretclare 11th May 18, 12:20 PM
    • 10,158 Posts
    • 17,194 Thanks
    margaretclare
    We had much better experiences which goes to show it might be a bit of a postcode lottery.
    The anecdotes all enforce the point that taxpayer fuding will only be available if there is a real NEED and they will question why her son can't help especially if he is younger, presumably more able - is he claiming carers allowance??

    We had very good experiences, although I don't think there were alternative in our case.
    We found the social worker to be both uderstanding (that our parents did not accurately express their needs - mum would complain about everything and dad nothing) and also generous - FIL did not really need help dressing but the company was extremely beneficial for his well-being. Mum got a free trip to a day centre weekly with transport and Dad got a carer to visit once a week to go out for coffee. I consider that to be quite generous, but in our postcode they did seem to understand that keeping people out of care/hospital is cheaper in the long run.

    The authorities did not expect FIL (89) to look after MIL although we did take him to the meeting to show him struggling to walk and breaking down saying he couldn't cope (either physically or mentally).

    The only issue we had was that they didn't want to put FIL in the same home that they funded for MIL because there were cheaper places available.
    We fought them and made it clear we'd fight them all the way.
    They gave in.
    I suspect partly because they didn't want him bed blocking at 3K per week when the care home was 850, but you have to have articulate people who know their rights to stand up for you otherwise the end result may be one of the dreadful cold, stinky, awful homes.
    Originally posted by lisyloo
    Absolutely. I could not agree more.

    In December 2016 DH was sent home from an acute ward because the hospital was on 'black alert'. We were told we had to have a care package set up, plus various appliances which we didn't want, including a commode.

    One of the hospital social workers said to me 'We'll only take half of your joint account'. I said 'Good luck with that. The joint account, most of the time, has nothing in it.' Our joint account gets funded at the end of each month and at the start of the next month, most of the bills go out - council tax, utilities, insurances etc.

    I had a shouting match by phone with the discharge co-ordinator. The day he was meant to be coming home (no transport) I had a phone call from the care co-ordinator at the local authority. She'd been told to arrange carers' visits and was quite happy when I told her we didn't want them. I also managed to stop or return the commode etc. The only thing that was useful was a zimmer with wheels.

    Fortunately DH was contacted on his mobile by a consultant at the Nuffield Orthopaedic Centre, Oxford who wanted to see him in his clinic before Christmas. Result: his leg got sorted out and he still has the original 2 legs he was born with.

    I often wonder what would have happened if we hadn't been articulate and able/willing to stand up to people who wanted to push us around.
    r ic wisdom funde, r wear ic eald.
    Before I found wisdom, I became old.
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

131Posts Today

1,751Users online

Martin's Twitter