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    • abc123456
    • By abc123456 7th May 18, 2:49 PM
    • 344Posts
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    abc123456
    "Rent" friends house without agreement
    • #1
    • 7th May 18, 2:49 PM
    "Rent" friends house without agreement 7th May 18 at 2:49 PM
    The situation is this....a good friend bought a house on a country estate but is now unable to reside there. He wants to rent it out to us but there is a clause written into his deeds stating that he is not permitted to rent it out.
    From what I can see, renting out a property means tenancy agreements etc, which would break the above clause.

    Is it lawful for him to "rent" me the property "unofficially", without causing a trail of official tenancy agreement etc paperwork?

    I mean, surely a friend can allow another friend to live in his house for some payment in the knowledge that each will respect each others rights?
    Last edited by abc123456; 07-05-2018 at 2:52 PM.
Page 1
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 7th May 18, 2:51 PM
    • 12,444 Posts
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    Pixie5740
    • #2
    • 7th May 18, 2:51 PM
    • #2
    • 7th May 18, 2:51 PM
    The situation is this....a good friend bought a house on a country estate but is now unable to reside there. He wants to rent it out to us but there is a clause written into his deeds stating that he is not permitted to rent it out.
    From what I can see, renting out a property means tenancy agreements etc, which would break the above clause.

    Is it lawful for him to "rent" me the property "unofficially", without causing a trail of official tenancy agreement etc paperwork?
    Originally posted by abc123456
    Using quotation marks does not alter the fact that if you pay rent for exclusive occupation of all or part of the property a tenancy agreement will exist. A tenancy agreement need not be written down just paying rent to live there will create a Contractual Periodic Tenancy in England and Wales and your landlord must comply with all relevant housing legislation.
    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 7th May 18, 3:03 PM
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    PasturesNew
    • #3
    • 7th May 18, 3:03 PM
    • #3
    • 7th May 18, 3:03 PM
    There are two answers, which is applicable depends on your circumstances and common decency/morality.

    Yes: If you are trustworthy and honest and your mate is too, then there's no reason for you not to "help them out" by renting their place "on the quiet" as you'll not be causing them any trouble with bring poor quality visitors to the home, nor bleating when they ask you to leave for whatever reason and without any "legal/valid" "please leave" notices.
    It would be defrauding the deeds wording, but if you kept your nose clean, didn't stand out and didn't drop them in it, then it'd be "naughty/illegal, but it's all done with a good heart and not being seen as a nuisance"

    No: Technically they could be forced to sell it and you'd be booted out, for breaking the clause in the deeds. They might be evading tax and you might be party to that. There might be insurance issues should it burn down or be robbed or similar. There could be all manner of unexpected nasty ends to the arrangement ....

    So, you pays your money, you takes your choice.
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 7th May 18, 3:03 PM
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    Cakeguts
    • #4
    • 7th May 18, 3:03 PM
    • #4
    • 7th May 18, 3:03 PM
    If you pay to live in someone else's house then you have a tenancy. It doesn't have to be written down to be a tenancy it can be an oral tenancy.

    Basically the deeds of your friend's house say that ony he can live there so if he finds that he can't he will have to sell it.
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 7th May 18, 3:03 PM
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    Pixie5740
    • #5
    • 7th May 18, 3:03 PM
    • #5
    • 7th May 18, 3:03 PM
    I mean, surely a friend can allow another friend to live in his house for some payment in the knowledge that each will respect each others rights?
    Originally posted by abc123456


    Some payment = rent. If you pay rent you will create a tenancy. You and your friend are free to respect each others rights, not that it matters if you don't because the rights of the tenant and rights of the landlord are enshrined in law already.

    You can try to dress it up however you like, your friend will be letting the property to you, you will be paying rent, you will be a tenant, and your friend will be breaching a clause in the deeds.
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 7th May 18, 3:06 PM
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    theartfullodger
    • #6
    • 7th May 18, 3:06 PM
    • #6
    • 7th May 18, 3:06 PM
    You are wanting to business with a cheat who doesn't stick to contract terms? What about those good old British traditions of decency, honesty & fair play?
    • hazyjo
    • By hazyjo 7th May 18, 3:06 PM
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    hazyjo
    • #7
    • 7th May 18, 3:06 PM
    • #7
    • 7th May 18, 3:06 PM
    I vote sell. Where does the friend plan on living? What's the point in keeping it.
    2018 wins: Single Malt Whisky; theatre tickets; festival tickets; year of gin(!); shoes
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 7th May 18, 3:08 PM
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    Pixie5740
    • #8
    • 7th May 18, 3:08 PM
    • #8
    • 7th May 18, 3:08 PM
    Who would enforce such a clause in the deeds? Could your friend not approach them to find out if consent would be given to let the property to you?
    • abc123456
    • By abc123456 7th May 18, 4:15 PM
    • 344 Posts
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    abc123456
    • #9
    • 7th May 18, 4:15 PM
    • #9
    • 7th May 18, 4:15 PM
    Thanks everyone...I thought it wouldnt be easy, if not impossible. I dont really want to be party to cheating anyone or anything, or doing anything illegal. Personally I think the clause situation is awful and my friend should really have looked at that before buying....but, again thank you everyone for your advice and help, I appreciate it.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 7th May 18, 9:06 PM
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    G_M
    And in addition to the clause in the Deeds, there are all the standard legalities of a tenancy.

    As others have said, putting the word 'rent' in inverted comments does not stop it being rent, nor does it mean it is not a tenancy.

    * So the house insurance will be invalid. No pay-out if it burns down.
    * if there's a mortgage, the terms of the loan will be breached too
    * if the 'rent' is not declared to HMRC for income tax, then there's tax evasion
    * and a LL has to provide various documents to the tenant: gas report, EPC, 'How to rent' gov leaflet etc

    * New landlords: advice, information & links
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 8th May 18, 9:15 AM
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    xylophone
    He owns the house? Circumstances prevent him from taking up residence?

    Can he allow you to live in as caretakers (advising his insurers of the fact) until he can move in himself?

    Perhaps after he has taken up residence himself and you have moved on, you can treat him to a holiday/ give him a nice present?

    There would be no obligation whatsoever on you to make any such gesture but you could if you wished?
    • deannatrois
    • By deannatrois 8th May 18, 9:24 AM
    • 5,476 Posts
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    deannatrois
    If its on a country estate, I wonder if it would quickly be known about and at risk of reporting anyway.

    How old is the clause? If its ancient and no one is alive to chase your friend down, it might be immaterial.

    Is it worth your friend going back to his solicitor and finding out if the clause can be challenged without throwing money down a black hole?

    Does he spend no time there at all? If he spent some time there, you could be a lodger rather than a tenant with shared access to the facilities in the rest of the house that just aren't shared 365 days of the year. Normally that is allowed but would need to be clarified with the solicitor again (like how long he'd have to live there to make you a lodger rather than a tenant).

    Otherwise, if he can't live there, it makes sense to smarten it up a bit and sell.
    Last edited by deannatrois; 08-05-2018 at 9:27 AM.
    • kingstreet
    • By kingstreet 8th May 18, 5:18 PM
    • 33,704 Posts
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    kingstreet
    About thirty years ago I applied to rent a property on an estate in Cheshire. There was a stately home in the middle and I wanted one of the various dwellings within the estate.

    The managing agent wanted employment reference, a credit check, bank reference etc and after about a month they came back and told me I'd been accepted.

    Unfortunately, I'd had to find an alternative as I couldn't wait for the time it took them and had to gracefully decline.

    Coming back to this thread, I'm pretty sure there would have been some serious grief if I'd taken a tenancy and then sublet to someone who hadn't been subject to the vigorous screening we had...
    I am a mortgage broker. You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a Mortgage Adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice. Please do not send PMs asking for one-to-one-advice, or representation.
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