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    • tempest84
    • By tempest84 6th May 18, 5:40 PM
    • 12Posts
    • 2Thanks
    tempest84
    Landlord access for viewings
    • #1
    • 6th May 18, 5:40 PM
    Landlord access for viewings 6th May 18 at 5:40 PM
    Hi,
    My landlord informed me last week that he is selling the property i rent from him. He wants me to continue living here and paying him rent until he finds a buyer. i have been here 3 years and have been happy whilst here, so i am disappointed about this situation, as i believe i have to start looking straight away as not to miss out on the right home in the right location if one comes up.

    The thing is, the Landlord wants to show potential buyers around my home, and i am not comfortable with this, and was wondering if by law i can refuse access full stop. I always allow visits to check the condition of the property and gas checks etc, but i am not willing to open up my home to randoms nosing around, not through shame as i maintain a tidy and presentable home, its just strangers nosing around does not sit right with me. And this landlord thinks he can enter my property while im not there as long as he gives notice.

    I have found the clause in my tenancy contract that states "Allow possible new tenants and buyers access on 24 hours notice" How enforceable is this clause?

    I have changed the front door lock sometime ago, and i am not to fussed about a reference as i have enough positive ones from over the years.

    As i could do with my deposit back in advance to put down on a new place, would you think it possible he would play ball to gain access as soon as possible?

    For the record, my rent always is paid on time, no outstanding bills, no damage to property and no neighbour disputes.

    Thank you.
Page 2
    • tempest84
    • By tempest84 7th May 18, 4:17 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    tempest84
    I get the impression they are not very experienced landlords, especially with reference to the law.

    In a nutshell, the message was they do not accept my notice of no entry and will force the lock if necessary and any damage would be passed on to me.
    • mchale
    • By mchale 7th May 18, 4:55 PM
    • 1,720 Posts
    • 954 Thanks
    mchale

    In a nutshell, the message was they do not accept my notice of no entry and will force the lock if necessary and any damage would be passed on to me.
    Originally posted by tempest84

    Bear in mind they are allowed to do that in an emergency & as you have changed the locks without giving notice, the LL would be within his/her rights to pass any bill on to you.
    ANURADHA KOIRALA ??? go on throw it in google.
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 7th May 18, 4:56 PM
    • 15,839 Posts
    • 21,761 Thanks
    pinkshoes
    I get the impression they are not very experienced landlords, especially with reference to the law.

    In a nutshell, the message was they do not accept my notice of no entry and will force the lock if necessary and any damage would be passed on to me.
    Originally posted by tempest84
    Write to them giving suitable times when you WILL allow viewings asap with 24 hours notice to be given.

    They cannot just enter without your permission as this is not an emergency.

    Make it clear to them in the letter that you do NOT give them permission to enter at any other time than those stated, as this would be breaking and entering.

    I would also fit some sort of alarm!
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • HampshireH
    • By HampshireH 7th May 18, 4:57 PM
    • 758 Posts
    • 818 Thanks
    HampshireH
    Well if you have signed to say you won't change the lock and you will allow access with a specified notice period then I don't blame them if you A refuse and B haven't provided them with a key.

    That may not be the favoured response here but you do seem to be being quite obstructive and at the end of the day you did agree to the terms and conditions they offered you in exchange for somewhere to live.

    They have kept to their side of the deal. You appear to be choosing not to keep to yours.

    They shouldn't be breaking in. They also shouldn't need to.

    On the flip side what are you going to do about it if they Do?
    • Quizzical Squirrel
    • By Quizzical Squirrel 7th May 18, 5:09 PM
    • 222 Posts
    • 4,724 Thanks
    Quizzical Squirrel
    This whole area needs to be clearly defined for everyone.

    I know the landlord and tenant have equal rights here (although in practice it favours the tenant) but it really should be specified for all from the start. That way everyone on both sides knows what's expected.

    At the moment you have tenants refusing or not being aware of their rights and landlords asking why did you sign this agreement then and getting shirty when they find out they have to enforce it through the courts.

    This is a grey area that should be defined up front. Clear to both sides. Not relying on the overconfidence or ignorance of either party.
    It's just asking for conflict when people don't know where they stand.
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 7th May 18, 5:12 PM
    • 29,478 Posts
    • 75,240 Thanks
    Mojisola
    My landlord informed me last week that he is selling the property i rent from him.

    He wants me to continue living here and paying him rent until he finds a buyer.
    Originally posted by tempest84
    Has he given you proper legal notice?
    • tempest84
    • By tempest84 7th May 18, 5:38 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    tempest84
    I have agreed to the request, but have had to rearrange my shift so i can be here, which was my problem. I had a heated phone call with him, were i had to emphasise my rights while staying calm and respectful. my blood boiled a bit when i saw the message about forcing entry, so i phoned straight away to clear it up.
    He said he owned the place so can do this, and i made the point i pay rent to enjoy my privacy.
    This was going to go on and on, and after i started to sense he was getting agitated and out of breath ( he's late 50's early 60's i think) i tried to calm him down, and pretty much gave in. i said i'd contact my employer and move things around.

    I asked whether or not i could get my deposit back in advance, nope! but i made clear that any forced entry would result in police action and advised him to research the law on this matter.

    Tomorrow is going to be awkward
    • pinkshoes
    • By pinkshoes 7th May 18, 6:17 PM
    • 15,839 Posts
    • 21,761 Thanks
    pinkshoes
    I have agreed to the request, but have had to rearrange my shift so i can be here, which was my problem. I had a heated phone call with him, were i had to emphasise my rights while staying calm and respectful. my blood boiled a bit when i saw the message about forcing entry, so i phoned straight away to clear it up.
    He said he owned the place so can do this, and i made the point i pay rent to enjoy my privacy.
    This was going to go on and on, and after i started to sense he was getting agitated and out of breath ( he's late 50's early 60's i think) i tried to calm him down, and pretty much gave in. i said i'd contact my employer and move things around.

    I asked whether or not i could get my deposit back in advance, nope! but i made clear that any forced entry would result in police action and advised him to research the law on this matter.

    Tomorrow is going to be awkward
    Originally posted by tempest84
    Donít forget to leave some crusty pants lying around and scatter some mouse traps on the floor... (joke)

    Let this be a one off, but in future be firm when you will allow viewings and put it in writing.
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 7th May 18, 6:31 PM
    • 11,632 Posts
    • 13,527 Thanks
    pmlindyloo
    I don't believe that you have answered the question about whether you are in a fixed term or on a periodic tenancy. What notice do you and your landlord have to give to each other to end the tenancy?

    I do think this is important.

    Whilst I agree that it is reasonable for you to allow viewings at your convenience if this is within a reasonable time frame, I do not think it is reasonable for this to go on for months and months.

    Please tell us about the time frame.
    • tempest84
    • By tempest84 7th May 18, 6:43 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    tempest84
    I don't believe that you have answered the question about whether you are in a fixed term or on a periodic tenancy. What notice do you and your landlord have to give to each other to end the tenancy?

    I do think this is important.

    Whilst I agree that it is reasonable for you to allow viewings at your convenience if this is within a reasonable time frame, I do not think it is reasonable for this to go on for months and months.

    Please tell us about the time frame.
    Originally posted by pmlindyloo
    Periodic tenancy. 6 month contract ended 2 1/2 years ago

    I will insist from tomorrow onward that weekend viewings are best due to shift work on weekdays. I gave in this time and moved my schedule around to suit him because he would not budge and was convinced he could bash down the door if he couldn't get in. But i cannot allow him to dictate the times, even though i don't want to make him ill when he cant get his own way. the last thing i want is him having an event on my conscience.
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 7th May 18, 6:47 PM
    • 11,632 Posts
    • 13,527 Thanks
    pmlindyloo
    Periodic tenancy. 6 month contract ended 2 1/2 years ago

    I will insist from tomorrow onward that weekend viewings are best due to shift work on weekdays. I gave in this time and moved my schedule around to suit him because he would not budge and was convinced he could bash down the door if he couldn't get in. But i cannot allow him to dictate the times, even though i don't want to make him ill when he cant get his own way. the last thing i want is him having an event on my conscience.
    Originally posted by tempest84
    Weekend viewings due to your shift work is perfectly reasonable (IMHO).

    Find somewhere new to live ASAP and leave him in the sh#t.

    My pet hate is landlords who sell houses with tenants in situ.
    • rachpid
    • By rachpid 8th May 18, 12:33 PM
    • 26 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    rachpid
    We are going through the same situation as you but our landlord offered us a drop in rent by £150 (approx 14%) to account for the hassle of viewings. We agreed but stipulated we would only tolerate two or three a week with appropriate 24 hrs notice and they would have to put up with the house getting full of boxes etc as we begin to pack. All of the viewings are being arranged by the estate agent rather than the landlord, so they have stuck to this. The same agents have helped us find somewhere new too so luckily we only have two and a bit weeks left of this.

    Is there a reason you have to be there for the viewings? We have had two now while we were at work. I was anxious about people traipsing round my house without me there but it has to be done. After the first I got my mum to go and check they'd left the house in ok condition as we have cats and was worried they'd shut all the internal doors but all was fine. We hid easily removable items such as iPads but nothing else.
    • Quizzical Squirrel
    • By Quizzical Squirrel 8th May 18, 5:37 PM
    • 222 Posts
    • 4,724 Thanks
    Quizzical Squirrel
    I don't think you should be there either.
    I'm saying this as someone who has had a huge number of viewings inflicted on them by landlords.

    1) Being there won't stop theft. And real theft is unlikely, it's more likely to be children picking up shiny baubles.
    I have known two people who have been burgled as a result of viewings and both times it's happened long after the viewing when those people know what you've got and the lay of the land.

    2) It's better to present the house well and get it over with. I've sabotaged so many viewings out of angry frustration and sheer spite ... but you're only hurting yourself by prolonging the sale. Although it is satisfying to then wipe a few hundred K off your landlord's sale price because the house has lingered on the market, it's not worth it for you.

    3) If you're there, it's very possible that you'll overhear awful things about your belongings. If you're 'just a tenant', many viewers lose that natural respect for someone else's home. This most definitely doesn't help with the resentment and feeling of intrusion.

    In short, I think when you feel your territory is being threatened, it's better not to see it happen, not to experience it.
    Remove yourself and it won't have such an impact. I felt a need to protect my territory and I think it backfired psychologically. It took me years to learn this the hard way.
    • tempest84
    • By tempest84 8th May 18, 6:02 PM
    • 12 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    tempest84
    I let the landlord show tenants around earlier, along with his estate agent whom funny enough is the same guy who inspected my home in February along with the landlord under the guise of an insurance man. I didn't buy that story then, so that's why i changed the locks, because i had a feeling they were up to something, which i strongly suspected was a sale.

    I know its none of my business, but just saying "this is an estate agent checking the dimensions of the rooms for a possible future sale" would of been better for me as it would of allowed ample time to save up, pack up and move on.

    I have now insisted on weekend viewings and he has agreed, but the family that looked around earlier seemed keen and i think they would like to move in asap.

    Also, deposit back in advance was a no go when i put it to him.
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 8th May 18, 6:10 PM
    • 9,620 Posts
    • 12,953 Thanks
    theartfullodger
    Just because a place is sold does not end your tenancy nor require you to leave: Yes, even if new owner is outside with 3 bonkers kids, screaming hubbie, huge removals van.

    Only a court can force you to leave: After landlord serves valid notice (has he? Has he now...), then court, then possession order (still don;t have to leave, tenancy still continues) then bailiffs: Months and months.

    Has he served any valid notice, probably headed "section 21"?? Check it here...
    https://markprichard.co.uk/content/documents/180408-Section-21-checker-tool.pdf

    You could suggest you might move by a certain date if he provides excellent written reference. And significant ££__.

    In similar circumstances my son & house mates got 1.5 months rent. I'd want £5k+
    Last edited by theartfullodger; 08-05-2018 at 6:40 PM.
    • ThePants999
    • By ThePants999 8th May 18, 11:03 PM
    • 1,196 Posts
    • 1,484 Thanks
    ThePants999
    The reason why we don't hear about tenants suffering any penalty for refusing viewings is because the landlord can only do two things about it:
    - evict the tenant, which is pretty irrelevant since the reason for wanting viewings generally involves the tenant leaving
    - sue the tenant, which requires the landlord to prove the loss they incurred as a result of the tenant's breach of contract.
    • Techno_Mystic
    • By Techno_Mystic 9th May 18, 11:31 AM
    • 57 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    Techno_Mystic
    As a tenant myself, I would prefer not to be in the property at all when somebody is in it. I just go out for the day, or go sit in the local pub for a few hours until it's over .

    Doesn't surprise me about the deposit. Usually they won't return it until two weeks after you've left. Which means, of course, that you don't have that money to use for a deposit on a new property. The person who said "the law always favours the tenant" is a moron.
    • rtho782
    • By rtho782 9th May 18, 1:07 PM
    • 1,111 Posts
    • 811 Thanks
    rtho782
    You were never going to get the deposit back early, this isn't how it works I'm afraid.

    Personally I would refuse viewings, if he wants to smash things call the police. I'd probably have alerted the police in advance to a possible breach of the peace.

    All he can do about your breach of contract is serve you a section 21, and you're already having to look for a new place anyway.
    Deposit Saved since 01/12/15: £13,000 / £15,000 House Bought!

    Debt Cleared since 01/12/15: £6,000 / £7,500
    • Quizzical Squirrel
    • By Quizzical Squirrel 9th May 18, 2:45 PM
    • 222 Posts
    • 4,724 Thanks
    Quizzical Squirrel
    Something I just remembered: if you do allow viewings, check for damage afterwards. It's your deposit that's at risk.

    It's only happened to me a couple of times but you need to address it as soon as possible.

    For example, just a minor thing, a viewer broke a key off in french doors and I didn't notice because it was winter. I would have had to pay for that.

    Another time was extremely serious and I don't know the truth of the matter, although I have my suspicions, but it's certainly possible a viewer or surveyor did the alleged misdeed.

    So check everything when viewers leave because it's your name that's on the bill.
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