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  • FIRST POST
    • GSDLADY
    • By GSDLADY 4th May 18, 2:26 PM
    • 1Posts
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    GSDLADY
    Discrepancy in pensions-help!
    • #1
    • 4th May 18, 2:26 PM
    Discrepancy in pensions-help! 4th May 18 at 2:26 PM
    Husband & I both have over 35 ‘qualifying years’ for the New State Pension, but when we did a ‘pensions check’ on Gov website-he has £35 per week more than me ! We have no idea how!
    Any suggestions-both earn less than national average!
Page 1
    • hyubh
    • By hyubh 4th May 18, 2:47 PM
    • 2,302 Posts
    • 1,761 Thanks
    hyubh
    • #2
    • 4th May 18, 2:47 PM
    • #2
    • 4th May 18, 2:47 PM
    Husband & I both have over 35 ‘qualifying years’ for the New State Pension, but when we did a ‘pensions check’ on Gov website-he has £35 per week more than me ! We have no idea how!
    Any suggestions-both earn less than national average!
    Originally posted by GSDLADY
    Different contracting-out histories?
    • MK62
    • By MK62 4th May 18, 2:53 PM
    • 326 Posts
    • 232 Thanks
    MK62
    • #3
    • 4th May 18, 2:53 PM
    • #3
    • 4th May 18, 2:53 PM
    Difficult to say without the full picture, but have you been a member of a contracted-out (of SERPS) pension scheme during those years?

    Have a look for "COPE" amount.

    Even if neither of you has ever been contracted out, your husband may have built up a higher entitlement to SERPS/S2P.
    When they do the calculations, they see what you'd have been entitled to under the old system in April 2016 (IIRC), compared to the new system on the same date......this is your "starting amount" and you get whichever one is higher.

    This gives rise to seemingly odd discrepancies like this (notwithstanding a mistake of course).....personally I think they haven't done a very good job of explaining all this at all....the calculations they've used appear to be a national secret.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 4th May 18, 5:06 PM
    • 27,252 Posts
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    xylophone
    • #4
    • 4th May 18, 5:06 PM
    • #4
    • 4th May 18, 5:06 PM
    the calculations they've used appear to be a national secret.
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/447195/new-state-pension--effect-of-being-contracted-out.pdf

    The BSP 6/4/16 was £119.30.

    The NSP 6/4/16 was £155.65.
    • jennyjj
    • By jennyjj 4th May 18, 6:56 PM
    • 316 Posts
    • 401 Thanks
    jennyjj
    • #5
    • 4th May 18, 6:56 PM
    • #5
    • 4th May 18, 6:56 PM
    Husband & I both have over 35 ‘qualifying years’ for the New State Pension, but when we did a ‘pensions check’ on Gov website-he has £35 per week more than me ! We have no idea how!
    Any suggestions-both earn less than national average!
    Originally posted by GSDLADY
    He's a man. Men are better than women and so he's entitled to more.
    Only kidding.
    Were either of you contracted out? Check for that on the gov.uk pensions forecast web page.
    • MK62
    • By MK62 4th May 18, 7:21 PM
    • 326 Posts
    • 232 Thanks
    MK62
    • #6
    • 4th May 18, 7:21 PM
    • #6
    • 4th May 18, 7:21 PM
    Well it was a tongue-in-cheek statement to be fair, but even in that document it states

    Some of the terms used such as "gross" S2P (State Second Pension) and S2P Contracted-out Deduction are there to simplify examples (the actual calculations can be more complicated and including them here would not aid clarity).
    It also doesn't show how the level of SERPS and S2P entitlement is calculated for those who weren't contracted out, and in any case, none of this information is included (or even linked to) on the State Pension forecast, which is all the vast majority of people will ever see.

    Some information/explanation on how they calculated the figure (the "Starting Amount") shown on the State Pension forecast would probably help in many cases.....preferably in a form you don't need to be an actuary to understand.....

    ......just saying!!..
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 5th May 18, 10:40 AM
    • 27,252 Posts
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    xylophone
    • #7
    • 5th May 18, 10:40 AM
    • #7
    • 5th May 18, 10:40 AM
    for those who weren't contracted out,
    NI/30 X £119.30 + (Grad + SERPS +S2P) (old)

    NI/35 X £155.65 (new)

    The starting amount was the higher of the two.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/181237/single-tier-pension-fact-sheet.pdf

    ( amount of NSP was only an estimate when published - actual figures in previous post).

    https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension/how-its-calculated

    History (and calcs) for grad/SERPS/S2P here

    https://www.ifs.org.uk/bns/bn105.pdf
    • MK62
    • By MK62 5th May 18, 4:39 PM
    • 326 Posts
    • 232 Thanks
    MK62
    • #8
    • 5th May 18, 4:39 PM
    • #8
    • 5th May 18, 4:39 PM
    NI/30 X £119.30 + (Grad + SERPS +S2P) (old)

    NI/35 X £155.65 (new)

    The starting amount was the higher of the two.
    Originally posted by xylophone
    Yes, I know that...but the State Pension Forecast doesn't say this.....it simply says how much you are forecast to get, and, if you were a member of a contracted out pension scheme, a link to a page to show you how much has been deducted for this.

    Hence, like in the OP's case, you can get two forecasts for two people with full NI histories, and yet they are different,with no explanation.
    All I'm saying is that it'd be helpful if the State Pension Forecast gave a little more information about how the figure was arrived at.

    Most people are not actuaries or mathematicians - showing them the documents you have linked to won't help. Giving them a little more information, in an easily understandable format, just might.
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 5th May 18, 11:43 PM
    • 27,252 Posts
    • 16,308 Thanks
    xylophone
    • #9
    • 5th May 18, 11:43 PM
    • #9
    • 5th May 18, 11:43 PM
    Most people are not actuaries or mathematicians - showing them the documents you have linked to won't help. Giving them a little more information, in an easily understandable format, just might.
    First link in post above was aimed at general public.
    • Simple Soul
    • By Simple Soul 10th May 18, 4:56 AM
    • 48 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    Simple Soul
    Husband & I both have over 35 !!!8216;qualifying years!!!8217; for the New State Pension, but when we did a !!!8216;pensions check!!!8217; on Gov website-he has £35 per week more than me ! We have no idea how!
    Any suggestions-both earn less than national average!
    Originally posted by GSDLADY
    £35 a week is a lot.
    As MK62 has already said, you have not provided enough information for anyone to accurately explain the discrepancy.

    But my guess is that your husband was contracted-in throughout his working life, and you were contracted-out throughout yours.

    If this is the case, your COPE would be about £35, and he would not have a COPE.

    Let us know if this is the case.
    Last edited by Simple Soul; 10-05-2018 at 4:59 AM.
    • Simple Soul
    • By Simple Soul 10th May 18, 5:09 AM
    • 48 Posts
    • 31 Thanks
    Simple Soul
    Another possible reason is that he earned more than you, thereby collecting more Additional State Pension (which was earnings related).
    • mgdavid
    • By mgdavid 10th May 18, 12:40 PM
    • 5,781 Posts
    • 5,107 Thanks
    mgdavid
    ......

    Most people are not actuaries or mathematicians - showing them the documents you have linked to won't help. Giving them a little more information, in an easily understandable format, just might.
    Originally posted by MK62
    I think you are over-egging the issue; most people should be able to understand simple arithmetic.
    The questions that get the best answers are the questions that give most detail....
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