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  • FIRST POST
    • Water8aby
    • By Water8aby 1st May 18, 10:27 PM
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    Water8aby
    Council want to move aunt to a cheaper care home after 4 years!
    • #1
    • 1st May 18, 10:27 PM
    Council want to move aunt to a cheaper care home after 4 years! 1st May 18 at 10:27 PM
    My aunt moved in to a care home following the death of my uncle. She couldn't cope living on her own and went downhill fast. She chose to go in to a very nice home that had cared for other family members previously, including my uncle when he passed away. Aunt had plenty off money so the fees weren't an issue and she was happy there. In all truthfulness she was so ill we didn't expect her to last more than a few months anyway. The home have done a great job and looked after aunt well and she improved a lot under their care, so much so there is not a lot wrong with her now, apart from old age.

    My aunt has been there for over 4 years and has now run out of money to fund her care, we have sold her house and she has used all of that, and her savings already. The council have said that they will assist with aunt's fees, but they will only pay up to their normal rate of 400 per week. They won't pay for her to stay at her chosen home which is 1,300 a week unless we agree to make up the shortfall of which would amount to about 700 per week. We do not have this sort of money and we have told the council we cannot even consider this.

    So the Council want to move aunt to a cheaper home. I haven't visited it yet, but I have heard that it isn't very nice.

    Is there anything we can do to stop the council moving my aunt or is it a case of tough luck now she is out of money to pay for herself, and we cannot afford the top up? I really am pulling my hair out about this now so if anyone can suggest anything that would be great.
Page 1
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 2nd May 18, 1:23 AM
    • 5,622 Posts
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    Keep pedalling
    • #2
    • 2nd May 18, 1:23 AM
    • #2
    • 2nd May 18, 1:23 AM
    It sounds like she is paying nursing home rates but only needs residential care, so I am afraid that there is no way that the LA are going to continue to pay for that.

    Any new accommodation offered is going to be of a lower standard than she is used to so that is something that can!!!8217;t be avoided. My recently deceased mother went into LA funded residential care 2 years ago, and initially I was not to very keen on the place she was offered, as it was rather old fashion with small rooms. I did however speak to some of the residence (including one who has now been there for 15 years) and a couple of the residence families who all spoke highly of the staff, and the care they received.

    I never regretted her going there as she was happy there and made some new friends who I still visit as they don!!!8217;t seem to have any other visitors.
    • kittie
    • By kittie 2nd May 18, 7:01 AM
    • 12,446 Posts
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    kittie
    • #3
    • 2nd May 18, 7:01 AM
    • #3
    • 2nd May 18, 7:01 AM
    my brothers mil is in a very good care home at 700 a week, still being funded out of her house proceeds.
    Don`t think that because it looks tatty that it is bad
    • Clowance
    • By Clowance 2nd May 18, 8:16 AM
    • 1,652 Posts
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    Clowance
    • #4
    • 2nd May 18, 8:16 AM
    • #4
    • 2nd May 18, 8:16 AM
    this is what happened to my husbands grandma aged 101! they moved her when all her money ran out to a less prestigious home. Its inhumane but unfortunately councils do not have unlimited budgets so I cant see an alternative.
    Don't forget quidco/topcashback - I do!
    • elsien
    • By elsien 2nd May 18, 8:26 AM
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    elsien
    • #5
    • 2nd May 18, 8:26 AM
    • #5
    • 2nd May 18, 8:26 AM
    Sometimes the care home and the LA can come to an agreement and meet in the middle, especially if you can evidence how a move would be detrimental to her, but that's when you're talking a couple of hundred pounds, not the huge discrepancy you are now facing.

    I would suggest a nursing needs assessment, but if there's little wrong with her that's probably a non-starter. But it's a question to ask as it would offe a top up on the fees.
    https://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/what-is-nhs-funded-nursing-care.aspx
    If family can afford and are willing to pay a smaller top up you could look to see what other homes are available.
    My uncle moved from a very expensive home to a cheaper one, although still more than the LA going rate. It didn't have all the bells and whistles but my aunt felt the care was as good if not better and he has settled there.
    How involved in the decision is your aunt able to be? If there is a choice of alternatives (and that is a question you should definitely be asking) what is important to her in her new home? What can be done to minimise any anxiety? Does she want to visit/have information about the option is?

    Look at CQQ reports to back up your arguments. But no LA is going to pay a 900 per week differential.
    Last edited by elsien; 02-05-2018 at 8:31 AM.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 2nd May 18, 10:54 AM
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    Pollycat
    • #6
    • 2nd May 18, 10:54 AM
    • #6
    • 2nd May 18, 10:54 AM
    My aunt moved in to a care home following the death of my uncle. She couldn't cope living on her own and went downhill fast. She chose to go in to a very nice home that had cared for other family members previously, including my uncle when he passed away. Aunt had plenty off money so the fees weren't an issue and she was happy there. In all truthfulness she was so ill we didn't expect her to last more than a few months anyway. The home have done a great job and looked after aunt well and she improved a lot under their care, so much so there is not a lot wrong with her now, apart from old age.

    My aunt has been there for over 4 years and has now run out of money to fund her care, we have sold her house and she has used all of that, and her savings already. The council have said that they will assist with aunt's fees, but they will only pay up to their normal rate of 400 per week. They won't pay for her to stay at her chosen home which is 1,300 a week unless we agree to make up the shortfall of which would amount to about 700 per week. We do not have this sort of money and we have told the council we cannot even consider this.

    So the Council want to move aunt to a cheaper home. I haven't visited it yet, but I have heard that it isn't very nice.

    Is there anything we can do to stop the council moving my aunt or is it a case of tough luck now she is out of money to pay for herself, and we cannot afford the top up? I really am pulling my hair out about this now so if anyone can suggest anything that would be great.
    Originally posted by Water8aby
    Not nice in what way?
    Visit it before deciding whether it's nice or not nice based on a 3rd party source.
    Have you looked at any reviews of the home that the council are proposing for your Aunt?

    When we were looking for a care home for my Dad - self funding - someone recommended a place (her Mum was a resident) and said 'look past what it looks like and see if you think the people in there are happy'.
    My sister and I visited and it was clear that the residents seemed content, enjoyed the food, liked the staff.
    • perfect10
    • By perfect10 11th May 18, 8:41 AM
    • 335 Posts
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    perfect10
    • #7
    • 11th May 18, 8:41 AM
    • #7
    • 11th May 18, 8:41 AM
    Social care should have a list of care homes that don't require a top up, ask for this list and go and have a look round them all, talk to other residents while you are there etc. She should have some choice in where she goes so make sure she visits first.

    Alot of places have waiting lists too so it may take a few weeks to get her placed, social care may agree to pay the top up until she is placed.
    Entering a few comps here and there still waiting for that elusive 'big' win!!
    • Water8aby
    • By Water8aby 15th May 18, 8:33 PM
    • 2 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Water8aby
    • #8
    • 15th May 18, 8:33 PM
    • #8
    • 15th May 18, 8:33 PM
    I just wanted to say thank you to everyone for your advice.

    I think we are going to have to move my aunt, but we haven't quite finished the arguing yet.
    • bobwilson
    • By bobwilson 15th May 18, 8:46 PM
    • 425 Posts
    • 113 Thanks
    bobwilson
    • #9
    • 15th May 18, 8:46 PM
    • #9
    • 15th May 18, 8:46 PM
    Aunt had plenty off money so the fees weren't an issue and she was happy there.
    Originally posted by Water8aby
    She sounds like one of the lucky ones.. so many elderly can't afford to pay for care. Shame her money wasn't put to use on your eduction "plenty of", not "plenty off".

    In all truthfulness she was so ill we didn't expect her to last more than a few months anyway.
    Originally posted by Water8aby
    Charming.

    .. there is not a lot wrong with her now, apart from old age. My aunt has been there for over 4 years and has now run out of money to fund her care, we have sold her house and she has used all of that, and her savings already. The council have said that they will assist with aunt's fees, but they will only pay up to their normal rate of 400 per week.
    Originally posted by Water8aby
    It's a great system isn't it? We pay tax when we earn money, pay tax when we spend it, and pay a third lot of tax when we inherit anything (which has already been taxed twice)- and if you earn above 60k or a certain amount (which is barely enough for a family to live on in some areas), you can pay over 50% tax including student loan repayments- all this tax is meant to fund things like healthcare, yet when we get old and actually need to use this healthcare, the government makes us sell our homes to fund it & then puts us in a rubbish place. Welcome to the U of K.

    I really am pulling my hair out about this now so if anyone can suggest anything that would be great.
    Originally posted by Water8aby
    Here's a novel idea, why don't you do what almost all civilised countries & cultures around the world do and look after her yourselves? She's your family, right? Wouldn't you want to be looked after by people you love when you get old? What about your parents? They looked after you when you were a child- wouldn't you want to look after them when they need it? Aren't you ashamed for letting her go to a care home & selling her home to pay for it? I know this is Great British cold culture but why not stop and actually think about it for a minute.
    Last edited by bobwilson; 15-05-2018 at 8:49 PM.
    • badmemory
    • By badmemory 16th May 18, 9:43 AM
    • 2,207 Posts
    • 3,170 Thanks
    badmemory



    Wouldn't you want to be looked after by people you love when you get old?
    Originally posted by bobwilson

    Frankly no! The very last thing I would want is to have my son have to wipe my backside for me. I may have done it for him but at least he didn't have to think about it before it happened.
    • margaretclare
    • By margaretclare 16th May 18, 11:47 AM
    • 10,174 Posts
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    margaretclare
    Frankly no! The very last thing I would want is to have my son have to wipe my backside for me. I may have done it for him but at least he didn't have to think about it before it happened.
    Originally posted by badmemory
    No, nor would I.

    I am a lot closer to that possibility (in my 9th decade now) than are many people - | would guess - who post here.

    Actually there are few who would, or could even if they would. Most of our near relatives are at the other end of the country. Maybe a couple of generations ago people lived round the corner from each other, as in Catherine Cookson's 'The Fifteen Streets'. That lifestyle has gone.

    The 'civilised cultures' around the world may still have granny and grandad living in the same village, or in the next street, from auntie and uncle, or married sons and daughters-in-law. I think that, if that still happens, it is now a rarity. Correct me if I'm wrong.
    r ic wisdom funde, r wear ic eald.
    Before I found wisdom, I became old.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 16th May 18, 12:15 PM
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    Pollycat
    She sounds like one of the lucky ones.. so many elderly can't afford to pay for care. Shame her money wasn't put to use on your eduction "plenty of", not "plenty off".



    Charming.



    It's a great system isn't it? We pay tax when we earn money, pay tax when we spend it, and pay a third lot of tax when we inherit anything (which has already been taxed twice)- and if you earn above 60k or a certain amount (which is barely enough for a family to live on in some areas), you can pay over 50% tax including student loan repayments- all this tax is meant to fund things like healthcare, yet when we get old and actually need to use this healthcare, the government makes us sell our homes to fund it & then puts us in a rubbish place. Welcome to the U of K.



    Here's a novel idea, why don't you do what almost all civilised countries & cultures around the world do and look after her yourselves? She's your family, right? Wouldn't you want to be looked after by people you love when you get old? What about your parents? They looked after you when you were a child- wouldn't you want to look after them when they need it? Aren't you ashamed for letting her go to a care home & selling her home to pay for it? I know this is Great British cold culture but why not stop and actually think about it for a minute.
    Originally posted by bobwilson
    The OP's aunt has funded her own care, including selling off her house to pay care home fees.


    Save your nastiness for those people who post on here wanting to get out of paying any sort of care home fees for their parents by transferring homes, hiding money etc so they can protect their 'inheritance'.
    There are plenty of those people to have a go at.


    Water8aby - ignore that post.
    It's nasty and uncalled for.

    I hope you find a home for your Aunt that's affordable and she settles in well.
    • seven-day-weekend
    • By seven-day-weekend 16th May 18, 2:43 PM
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    seven-day-weekend
    Frankly no! The very last thing I would want is to have my son have to wipe my backside for me. I may have done it for him but at least he didn't have to think about it before it happened.
    Originally posted by badmemory
    I wouldn't either. I would much rather professional carers did this for me than my loved ones. I want still to be able to have a normal relationship with them as wife, mother, friend. I don't want the relationship to be that of carer/cared for.
    Member #10 of 2 savers club
    Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology: Terry Eagleton
    • bobwilson
    • By bobwilson 16th May 18, 5:56 PM
    • 425 Posts
    • 113 Thanks
    bobwilson
    No, nor would I.

    I am a lot closer to that possibility (in my 9th decade now) than are many people - | would guess - who post here.

    Actually there are few who would, or could even if they would. Most of our near relatives are at the other end of the country. Maybe a couple of generations ago people lived round the corner from each other, as in Catherine Cookson's 'The Fifteen Streets'. That lifestyle has gone.

    The 'civilised cultures' around the world may still have granny and grandad living in the same village, or in the next street, from auntie and uncle, or married sons and daughters-in-law. I think that, if that still happens, it is now a rarity. Correct me if I'm wrong.
    Originally posted by margaretclare
    Are you in your 90s?

    My friend was on a 40 minute uber taxi across London, driven by an iranian who asked him about his life, and when he discovered his uncle was unwell in a care home, the taxi driver berated him for the next 35 minutes about how barbaric english culture is, and how ashamed he should be for not quitting his job & moving to the area his uncle lives to take care of him, and for not forcing the uncle to move into his home in London and quitting his job to take care of him. Toward the end of this 35 minute dressing down, the iranian taxi driver said "ARE YOU OK? YOU SEEM STRESSED!"

    I understand your sentiments, but I also think there's room for a more warm culture in the UK. Somewhere in between would be nice.
    Last edited by bobwilson; 16-05-2018 at 6:06 PM.
    • bobwilson
    • By bobwilson 16th May 18, 6:05 PM
    • 425 Posts
    • 113 Thanks
    bobwilson
    Save your nastiness for those people who post on here wanting to get out of paying any sort of care home fees for their parents by transferring homes, hiding money etc so they can protect their 'inheritance'.
    There are plenty of those people to have a go at.


    Water8aby - ignore that post.
    It's nasty and uncalled for.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    Interesting isn't it how when people are nasty to some on this forum, no one ever came to their defence- yet after years of it, when one of them finally starts questioning others, you're quick to defend, Pollycat.

    Might I suggest that if people like you were there for everyone equally, then no one would be questioned like this in the first place. The people who deserve your sympathy the most are not always the most obvious, and if you were truly caring, you'd realise that.
    • missile
    • By missile 16th May 18, 6:30 PM
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    missile
    Are you in your 90s?

    My friend was on a 40 minute uber taxi across London, driven by an iranian who asked him about his life, and when he discovered his uncle was unwell in a care home, the taxi driver berated him for the next 35 minutes about how barbaric english culture is, and how ashamed he should be for not quitting his job & moving to the area his uncle lives to take care of him, and for not forcing the uncle to move into his home in London and quitting his job to take care of him. Toward the end of this 35 minute dressing down, the iranian taxi driver said "ARE YOU OK? YOU SEEM STRESSED!"

    I understand your sentiments, but I also think there's room for a more warm culture in the UK. Somewhere in between would be nice.
    Originally posted by bobwilson
    I hope he didn't give that driver a tip?
    "A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members." ~ Mahatma Gandhi
    Ride hard or stay home
    • PasturesNew
    • By PasturesNew 16th May 18, 6:53 PM
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    PasturesNew
    I haven't visited it yet, but I have heard that it isn't very nice.

    Is there anything we can do to stop the council moving my aunt or is it a case of tough luck now she is out of money to pay for herself, and we cannot afford the top up? I really am pulling my hair out about this now so if anyone can suggest anything that would be great.
    Originally posted by Water8aby
    The Council will pay a fixed amount to a number of homes in the county - and they will have a list of all the homes they have people in. You should be able to get a list of all the homes from social services - then you can phone round them all to go and have a look round... and you might be able to suggest 1-3 of them that you'd prefer. Of course, they do then need to have a vacancy at one of those homes to enable the move to go ahead, but if you try to stand firm and say "Here's a list of homes you can move her to - here's the list I wouldn't put my enemy's dog into"

    I picked one for my mum from that list - even though we were paying for her care home .... because I knew that if the money ran out I'd stand a good chance of her being able to stay there as half the residents were council funded and half private (private cost us about 100/week more than the Council paid the home, which is always annoying).

    You can't "stop the Council moving her" - what is actually happening is the private home is evicting her and the Council are being good enough to fund her in another home where they have a contract/beds paid for under a fixed fee. If you were wealthy enough to pay the difference each week the home wouldn't evict her. The long and short of it is "The bill is X/week. The home don't care who pays it, but somebody has to. The Council are prepared to top up your payments to the full amount, but they cap their amount to Y". You won't shift them on that, even if it were a 50/week difference the Council'd not bend as they can't.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 16th May 18, 7:04 PM
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    Pollycat
    Interesting isn't it how when people are nasty to some on this forum, no one ever came to their defence- yet after years of it, when one of them finally starts questioning others, you're quick to defend, Pollycat.

    Might I suggest that if people like you were there for everyone equally, then no one would be questioned like this in the first place. The people who deserve your sympathy the most are not always the most obvious, and if you were truly caring, you'd realise that.
    Originally posted by bobwilson
    I guess in your defence you missed the fact that the OP is a newbie...

    Might I suggest that you bear that in mind next time you want to have a go at someone simply asking a question.


    I defended the OP because - imho - your response was unnecessarily harsh.

    It is not for you to decide who deserves my - or any other poster's - sympathy.
    • elsien
    • By elsien 16th May 18, 7:08 PM
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    elsien
    He's on a bit of a roll if you look at the posting history. Probably not worth going there.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • margaretclare
    • By margaretclare 16th May 18, 7:08 PM
    • 10,174 Posts
    • 17,230 Thanks
    margaretclare
    Are you in your 90s?

    My friend was on a 40 minute uber taxi across London, driven by an iranian who asked him about his life, and when he discovered his uncle was unwell in a care home, the taxi driver berated him for the next 35 minutes about how barbaric english culture is, and how ashamed he should be for not quitting his job & moving to the area his uncle lives to take care of him, and for not forcing the uncle to move into his home in London and quitting his job to take care of him. Toward the end of this 35 minute dressing down, the iranian taxi driver said "ARE YOU OK? YOU SEEM STRESSED!"

    I understand your sentiments, but I also think there's room for a more warm culture in the UK. Somewhere in between would be nice.
    Originally posted by bobwilson
    No, I said I'm in my 9th decade, that means my 80s.

    I think I would have asked the driver to stop so I could get out if that had happened to me. I don't take Uber taxis anyway - black cabs are fine, if I ever need a taxi ride in London ever again. I would not allow a foreigner to berate me like that. It is none of his damned business. If our English culture is so barbaric, what the hell is he doing here? Don't tell me Iranian culture is all that 'warm', to use your words. Maybe it's one of those 'cultures' where it's all done by the daughters-in-law.

    I have just sent my eldest granddaughter a deposit for her mortgage, to exercise her right to buy her council house. Is that 'warm' enough for you?
    r ic wisdom funde, r wear ic eald.
    Before I found wisdom, I became old.
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