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  • FIRST POST
    • barmeysmb1
    • By barmeysmb1 17th Apr 18, 8:54 PM
    • 8Posts
    • 1Thanks
    barmeysmb1
    Load bearing wall advice
    • #1
    • 17th Apr 18, 8:54 PM
    Load bearing wall advice 17th Apr 18 at 8:54 PM
    Hi,
    I'm looking to confirm if a downstairs internal wall, between kitchen and diner is load bearing. The wall itself is solid brick/block - however the wall on the first floor above is not. Could the ground floor wall still be load bearing?

    Is there a sure fire way of checking ?
    I was thinking of removing a section of ceiling (need to change anyway) and check which way the joists are running (ie across and over the wall - but i need some advice as to if this is conclusive enough ?

    Thanks in advance
Page 1
    • humptydumptybits
    • By humptydumptybits 17th Apr 18, 8:59 PM
    • 364 Posts
    • 749 Thanks
    humptydumptybits
    • #2
    • 17th Apr 18, 8:59 PM
    • #2
    • 17th Apr 18, 8:59 PM
    I'm no building expert so probably best to ignore me but when we did this the builder took up a couple of floorboards in the bedroom and said it was fine when he looked at the joists.
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 17th Apr 18, 9:11 PM
    • 4,364 Posts
    • 6,242 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    • #3
    • 17th Apr 18, 9:11 PM
    • #3
    • 17th Apr 18, 9:11 PM
    Hi,
    I'm looking to confirm if a downstairs internal wall, between kitchen and diner is load bearing. The wall itself is solid brick/block - however the wall on the first floor above is not. Could the ground floor wall still be load bearing?

    Is there a sure fire way of checking ?
    I was thinking of removing a section of ceiling (need to change anyway) and check which way the joists are running (ie across and over the wall - but i need some advice as to if this is conclusive enough ?

    Thanks in advance
    Originally posted by barmeysmb1
    Floor boards run in opposite direction to joists.
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 17th Apr 18, 9:12 PM
    • 4,364 Posts
    • 6,242 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    • #4
    • 17th Apr 18, 9:12 PM
    • #4
    • 17th Apr 18, 9:12 PM
    Where are the stairs? Could it be that the top of the stairs rest on this wall?
    • barmeysmb1
    • By barmeysmb1 17th Apr 18, 9:18 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    barmeysmb1
    • #5
    • 17th Apr 18, 9:18 PM
    • #5
    • 17th Apr 18, 9:18 PM
    Thanks - the stair case top landing ends on a pantry wall in the kitchen, so pretty sure i can rule that out
    • Slinky
    • By Slinky 17th Apr 18, 9:19 PM
    • 5,196 Posts
    • 24,011 Thanks
    Slinky
    • #6
    • 17th Apr 18, 9:19 PM
    • #6
    • 17th Apr 18, 9:19 PM
    Hi,
    I'm looking to confirm if a downstairs internal wall, between kitchen and diner is load bearing. The wall itself is solid brick/block - however the wall on the first floor above is not. Could the ground floor wall still be load bearing?

    Is there a sure fire way of checking ?
    I was thinking of removing a section of ceiling (need to change anyway) and check which way the joists are running (ie across and over the wall - but i need some advice as to if this is conclusive enough ?

    Thanks in advance
    Originally posted by barmeysmb1

    Lifting the carpet upstairs is less intrusive than removing sections of ceilings.
    • barmeysmb1
    • By barmeysmb1 17th Apr 18, 9:20 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    barmeysmb1
    • #7
    • 17th Apr 18, 9:20 PM
    • #7
    • 17th Apr 18, 9:20 PM
    Floor boards run in opposite direction to joists.
    Originally posted by Cakeguts
    Thanks - the floor boards upstairs do run in the same direction as the wall, so as you say the joists will most definitely run over the wall in that case.

    Does that still conclusively make the wall load bearing ?
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 17th Apr 18, 10:03 PM
    • 25,017 Posts
    • 68,500 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    • #8
    • 17th Apr 18, 10:03 PM
    • #8
    • 17th Apr 18, 10:03 PM
    Thanks - the floor boards upstairs do run in the same direction as the wall, so as you say the joists will most definitely run over the wall in that case.

    Does that still conclusively make the wall load bearing ?
    Originally posted by barmeysmb1
    Yes.

    Consult a structural engineer.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • barmeysmb1
    • By barmeysmb1 17th Apr 18, 10:08 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    barmeysmb1
    • #9
    • 17th Apr 18, 10:08 PM
    • #9
    • 17th Apr 18, 10:08 PM
    Yes.

    Consult a structural engineer.
    Originally posted by Doozergirl
    Thanks - i have one SE in mind so far, costs are 120+VAT if no site visit.
    With site visit = adding on 180+VAT
    total = 300 + VAT - seems reasonable

    Price sound about right or should i expect to pay less ?
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 17th Apr 18, 10:32 PM
    • 25,017 Posts
    • 68,500 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    I pay less but for some reason most people seem to pay amounts like yours. No idea why; I use a reasonably sized, respected company that is VAT registered.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • barmeysmb1
    • By barmeysmb1 17th Apr 18, 10:43 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    barmeysmb1
    Thanks for the fast replies everyone :-)
    • gettingtheresometime
    • By gettingtheresometime 17th Apr 18, 11:13 PM
    • 3,611 Posts
    • 8,981 Thanks
    gettingtheresometime
    Thanks - i have one SE in mind so far, costs are 120+VAT if no site visit.
    With site visit = adding on 180+VAT
    total = 300 + VAT - seems reasonable

    Price sound about right or should i expect to pay less ?
    Originally posted by barmeysmb1
    How can you tell if a wall is load bearing without a site visit?
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    Next on the list - JD Williams
    • Badger50
    • By Badger50 17th Apr 18, 11:39 PM
    • 99 Posts
    • 98 Thanks
    Badger50
    I don't think you can be sure without a site visit. My structural engineer missed one working from a plan drawn up by an architect. It was the builder who spotted it.
    • gettingtheresometime
    • By gettingtheresometime 18th Apr 18, 12:17 AM
    • 3,611 Posts
    • 8,981 Thanks
    gettingtheresometime
    I don't think you can be sure without a site visit. My structural engineer missed one working from a plan drawn up by an architect. It was the builder who spotted it.
    Originally posted by Badger50
    In fact anyone who says they can tell a load bearing wall without a site visit I'd question with a salt mine .
    Lloyds OD / Natwest OD / PO CC / Wescott / Argos Card cleared thanks to the 1 debt v 100 day challenge


    Next on the list - JD Williams
    • humptydumptybits
    • By humptydumptybits 18th Apr 18, 10:28 AM
    • 364 Posts
    • 749 Thanks
    humptydumptybits
    Thanks - the floor boards upstairs do run in the same direction as the wall, so as you say the joists will most definitely run over the wall in that case.

    Does that still conclusively make the wall load bearing ?
    Originally posted by barmeysmb1
    My builder said it was likely that it meant it wasn't load bearing but he wasn't prepared to chance it without actually looking.
    • deannatrois
    • By deannatrois 18th Apr 18, 1:34 PM
    • 5,380 Posts
    • 7,550 Thanks
    deannatrois
    It could be down to me misunderstanding your OP but if there is a wall downstairs and a wall above it upstairs as you say, surely that means it is load bearing?
    • Doozergirl
    • By Doozergirl 18th Apr 18, 1:53 PM
    • 25,017 Posts
    • 68,500 Thanks
    Doozergirl
    My builder said it was likely that it meant it wasn't load bearing but he wasn't prepared to chance it without actually looking.
    Originally posted by humptydumptybits
    Unless your builder was a demolition expert, you've misunderstood something. If the floorboards run parallel then the joists run perpendicular to the wall and the joists are held up by the wall and the load from them is transferred down. It's basic.
    Everything that is supposed to be in heaven is already here on earth.
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 18th Apr 18, 1:55 PM
    • 20,146 Posts
    • 15,871 Thanks
    agrinnall
    It could be down to me misunderstanding your OP but if there is a wall downstairs and a wall above it upstairs as you say, surely that means it is load bearing?
    Originally posted by deannatrois
    The OP has said that the upstairs wall is not solid so is probably not itself load bearing, so the existence of that wall can't be used to decide whether the downstairs wall is load bearing or not.
    • barmeysmb1
    • By barmeysmb1 18th Apr 18, 3:26 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    barmeysmb1
    Essentially i'd had a couple of quotes for load bearing wall removal and RSJ install - and myself guessed the wall was load bearing. The visiting builders also did not say to the contrary. However as i'll need SE calcs - i may as well get final confirmation from the SE that it is definitely load bearing. In the interests of saving a wasted visit from SE (and costs) i was wondering if indeed there is a sure-fire method of a diy'er confirming.

    Seems there are a number of ways of 'almost' confirming - but i guess there is nothing more solid than hearing it from a SE.

    Although from the kind replies to this post - i'd bet my life now its definitely load bearing.

    Thanks all
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 18th Apr 18, 5:05 PM
    • 4,966 Posts
    • 13,232 Thanks
    EachPenny
    Is there a sure fire way of checking ?
    I was thinking of removing a section of ceiling (need to change anyway) and check which way the joists are running (ie across and over the wall - but i need some advice as to if this is conclusive enough?
    Originally posted by barmeysmb1
    Yes, and no.

    As has been said already, you need a structural engineer. What hasn't already been said is that loads are not just from the roof, walls and floors above. Some walls in buildings also carry horizontal loads, no amount of checking joists and floorboards will tell you for sure whether a wall is loadbearing or not, only the knowledge and experience of a structural engineer will do that competently.

    I'm no building expert so probably best to ignore me but when we did this the builder took up a couple of floorboards in the bedroom and said it was fine when he looked at the joists.
    Originally posted by humptydumptybits
    Unless he was also a structural engineer then his advice was potentially dangerous if he limited his investigations to lifting a couple of floorboards.
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