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  • FIRST POST
    • tomymm
    • By tomymm 17th Apr 18, 3:42 PM
    • 7Posts
    • 2Thanks
    tomymm
    Residents Car Parking Fine - Do I have a case?
    • #1
    • 17th Apr 18, 3:42 PM
    Residents Car Parking Fine - Do I have a case? 17th Apr 18 at 3:42 PM
    Good Afternoon Everyone,

    This is my first time and I am very nervous about the whole process, so please be gentle.

    I live in a block of flats that has a residents only car park located to the rear of the building. When taking the flat it was agreed between the agent/landlord and myself that I would benefit from one allocated car parking space to the rear of the building; lets call it A. However, the benefit of the car parking space was never written into the 12 month lease, only a verbal agreement. The parking space charge is inclusive of the rent.

    It should be noted that there is ample space in the car park and it is never full, even at night.

    I do not park in space A due to it being narrow. I park in another space; lets call it B. Space B is wider, as it is a corner space. Space B is not used by another resident and I have been parking in space B for the previous 8 months without an issue.

    Last month I received a car parking fine from a BPA company. I sent a letter appealing the charge and explaining that I am a resident with the lease attached. The BPA company has sent a letter back asking who was the driver at the time?

    First instinct to the BPA company's query is to refuse to disclose who the driver was (i.e. me) and continue to fight. Should this be done or should I just concede, pay and learn my lesson?

    I know I was not parked in my allocated space, but do you think I have taken the correct approach and if so whether I have a good case?

    Thanks in advance!
Page 1
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 17th Apr 18, 3:53 PM
    • 37,323 Posts
    • 21,512 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #2
    • 17th Apr 18, 3:53 PM
    • #2
    • 17th Apr 18, 3:53 PM
    Everyone is politely asked to read up on this in the Newbies FAQ thread near the top of the forum before starting a new thread

    Go there now to learn about the game you are now caught up in and how to deal with this

    You will be getting a popla code (don't reply to their request/pay etc).

    In the meantime complain to the ma to get it cancelled
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 17th Apr 18, 3:58 PM
    • 10,560 Posts
    • 9,917 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    • #3
    • 17th Apr 18, 3:58 PM
    • #3
    • 17th Apr 18, 3:58 PM
    You are parking where you shouldn't and have no entitlement to park unless you have written permission from the leaseholder of space "B". This differentiates your case from other "residents parking" cases on here.

    Who do you think alerted the PPC or MA?
    • tomymm
    • By tomymm 17th Apr 18, 4:52 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    tomymm
    • #4
    • 17th Apr 18, 4:52 PM
    • #4
    • 17th Apr 18, 4:52 PM
    Thank you for your replies!

    I have read the newbie thread, however I found it too late to adhere to the template for the initial appeal. I found another one from a different site.

    Quentin - I will email the management agency to see if they cancel it/put pressure on the company. Good suggestion, thanks!

    Guys Dad - I don't believe that they were tipped off. I think it was a routine/random inspection. It took place at 1am, judging from the time the photo's were taken. I will try to track down the leaseholder of space B to get written permission then!
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 17th Apr 18, 4:56 PM
    • 10,560 Posts
    • 9,917 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    • #5
    • 17th Apr 18, 4:56 PM
    • #5
    • 17th Apr 18, 4:56 PM
    Just how did the PPC determine that the car parked in area "B" was not the car belonging to flat "B"?

    Is there some designation on the permit tthat identifies the parking bay or did you fail to display the permit.

    At the moment, I am struggling to see how the PPC determined you were wrongly parked, so more explanation of the parking arrangements please.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 17th Apr 18, 5:17 PM
    • 4,255 Posts
    • 5,593 Thanks
    waamo
    • #6
    • 17th Apr 18, 5:17 PM
    • #6
    • 17th Apr 18, 5:17 PM
    You have sent an appeal. You should, in due course, get a POPLA code. Get reading up on POPLA appeals.
    This space for hire.
    • tomymm
    • By tomymm 17th Apr 18, 5:20 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    tomymm
    • #7
    • 17th Apr 18, 5:20 PM
    • #7
    • 17th Apr 18, 5:20 PM
    Everyone within the car park has a blue badge. I was informed by my landlord that I do not need a badge as long as I park within space A ... Do you think I should just pay up then as i don't have a case?
    • waamo
    • By waamo 17th Apr 18, 5:23 PM
    • 4,255 Posts
    • 5,593 Thanks
    waamo
    • #8
    • 17th Apr 18, 5:23 PM
    • #8
    • 17th Apr 18, 5:23 PM
    Everyone within the car park has a blue badge. I was informed by my landlord that I do not need a badge as long as I park within space A ... Do you think I should just pay up then?
    Originally posted by tomymm
    Why do Newbies constantly ask if they should pay? We never advocate paying unless you lose in court.

    Read some recent POPLA appeals and if modifying one is beyond you then cut and paste a recent winning one and use that.

    A poster today has reported doing just that resulted in them winning their appeal.
    This space for hire.
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 17th Apr 18, 5:26 PM
    • 4,273 Posts
    • 6,071 Thanks
    Half_way
    • #9
    • 17th Apr 18, 5:26 PM
    • #9
    • 17th Apr 18, 5:26 PM
    Never pay these parasites.
    suggested action to take:
    Find out who owns/has access to Space B, if you can find this out then you may be able to get their permission ( retrospectively)
    Find out what the head lease says with regards to the space
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Apr 18, 5:31 PM
    • 61,745 Posts
    • 74,649 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Do you think I should just pay up then as i don't have a case?
    No, don't be daft, where do you EVER see that said here?

    If you had a windscreen PCN, did you appeal it on day 26 as keeper, as per the NEWBIES thread (not saying who parked?). Or did you write you own and blab about who the driver was?

    Is this UKPC, they like infesting residential car parks. People's lives have been made hell by this sort of scam.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • tomymm
    • By tomymm 17th Apr 18, 5:46 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    tomymm
    Unfortunately, I did not see the 26 day part until after I made the appeal. At this point, I have not disclosed who the driver was.

    So the next step to take then is to wait for a POPLA and then appeal with the 3rd party using examples from the website?

    At this point, I have been given till the 27/04/18 to state who was the driver or they will make the decision based on the evidence to hand (i.e. the lease I gave to them). I will respond beginning of next week stating that i will only confirm that I am the registered keeper of the car. This will hopefully give me time to track down the owner of space B and get their written permission.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Apr 18, 5:57 PM
    • 61,745 Posts
    • 74,649 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I will respond beginning of next week
    NO.

    DO NOT respond. Let time tick on, you WILL get a POPLA code in May.

    You want them to wait, and we hope that they will time out before issuing a Notice to Keeper, you want them to forget to issue one, then you win as keeper at POPLA.

    Read the NEWBIES thread to understand this is why we say appeal as keeper (glad you did).

    Sit on your hands, tell us if you get a Notice to Keeper (which is not a rejection letter).
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • tomymm
    • By tomymm 17th Apr 18, 6:55 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    tomymm
    Ok, great. Thank you.

    Quick question - if you lose an appeal at POPLA appeal can you still pay the fine amount or does it then take into account costs as well? I.e. do you just have to pay the original fine?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 17th Apr 18, 7:05 PM
    • 9,298 Posts
    • 9,577 Thanks
    KeithP
    If you lose at PoPLA you still don't have to pay.

    Do you understand that you are disputing an alleged debt?
    Just because someone has sent you an invoice, does not mean you need to pay it.

    Pay nothing until, or unless, a county court judge instructs you to do so.
    .
    • tomymm
    • By tomymm 17th Apr 18, 7:12 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    tomymm
    Ok, great. Thank you.

    If I wait then, can I refuse to use any other dispute resolution expect POPLA (assuming they come back with IAS)?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 17th Apr 18, 7:16 PM
    • 9,298 Posts
    • 9,577 Thanks
    KeithP
    If I wait then, can I refuse to use any other dispute resolution expect POPLA (assuming they come back with IAS)?
    Originally posted by tomymm
    If they're a BPA company, you told us they are, then they will either accept your appeal or offer PoPLA.

    Which company is it?
    .
    • Redx
    • By Redx 17th Apr 18, 7:18 PM
    • 19,282 Posts
    • 24,525 Thanks
    Redx
    if they are a BPA member using the BPA AOS (check their website list) then they cannot offer the IAS

    If on the other hand they are an IPC AOS member, they cannot offer popla
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • tomymm
    • By tomymm 17th Apr 18, 7:30 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    tomymm
    They are UK Parking Control Limited who are BPA members.
    • Redx
    • By Redx 17th Apr 18, 7:34 PM
    • 19,282 Posts
    • 24,525 Thanks
    Redx
    in which case they can only offer POPLA and not the IAS

    its like asking if you can put petrol in a diesel car because both are fuels, the answer is NO, use the correct one only, these companies are the same for the moment, they subscribe to one or the other (similar to RUGBY LEAGUE and RUGBY UNION , or the BDO and the PDC in darts)
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 17th Apr 18, 7:51 PM
    • 10,016 Posts
    • 9,854 Thanks
    The Deep
    UKPC are fraudsters, read this

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11858473/Parking-firm-UKPC-admits-faking-tickets-to-fine-drivers.html

    and read these on residential parking, although as you are parking where you should not, primacy of lease will not apply.

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/residential-parking.html

    https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/residential-parking/

    https://bmpa.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/213801109-Parking-Control-Management-Roboclaim-Residential-site

    https://bmpa.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/sections/115000492465-Residential-parking-problems

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    Last edited by The Deep; 17-04-2018 at 7:55 PM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
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