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  • FIRST POST
    • majnov
    • By majnov 16th Apr 18, 4:55 PM
    • 10Posts
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    majnov
    Private car sale, Buyer rights, Ford with TCM fault.
    • #1
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:55 PM
    Private car sale, Buyer rights, Ford with TCM fault. 16th Apr 18 at 4:55 PM
    Hi,

    I bought a second-hand car Focus 2012 one week ago through a private sale, the car was advertised in a mint condition/drive good, etc.
    I went for a short test drive, all ok during such a short drive. I bought the car(cat D) with expired MOT as of 28th March. I pickup the car 2 days after I bought it, arranged MOT and drove back to London. The car lost power after 40 miles on a motorway causing a danger on the road, it happened one more time on the motorway.

    I took the car to a local garage, has been checked with U0101 code, lack of communication with TCM/TCU. MOT passed ok. The car has numerously lost it power or went into neutral gear.
    After further diagnostics with Ford IDS, 2 permanent faults in TCM unit and the unit must be replaced.

    I learned that Ford Fiesta and Ford Focus equipped with DPS6 Automatic Transmission manufactured between 2011/2012-2015/2016 develop the problem with TCM through its age/mileage due to the manufacturing fault, it has been recalled in the USA and extended guarantees for 10 years in the USA, 7 years in Australia and 5 years in the UK. Based on this, Ford Service has rejected my claim as the guarantee expired in last year.

    I bought a used TCM unit on Ebay so the repair would cost me at least 400 pounds if it is feasible to repair with this part.
    +++
    What are my rights as the private buyer? Could I take the seller to the small claims court to claim the repair cost? I informed the seller about the problem at the same date it developed a problem, the seller said he did not know anything about the problem but it is my car, sold as seen. I made a contract and I put in writing all visible marks on the body and the seller signed, which means that the fault was prior to the sale as this will not develop suddenly and the seller has hidden it.

    I already messaged the seller today, that I would like him to share the repair cost, otherwise, I am going to put a claim in a small claims court !!!8211; no answer so far.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by majnov; 16-04-2018 at 5:16 PM.
Page 1
    • George Michael
    • By George Michael 16th Apr 18, 5:04 PM
    • 3,139 Posts
    • 4,217 Thanks
    George Michael
    • #2
    • 16th Apr 18, 5:04 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Apr 18, 5:04 PM
    What are my rights as the private buyer? Could I take the seller to the small claims court to claim the repair cost? I informed the seller about the problem at the same date it developed a problem, the seller said he did not know anything about the problem but it is my car, sold as seen. I made a contract and I put in writing all visible marks on the body and the seller signed, which means that the fault was prior to the sale as this will not develop suddenly and the seller has hidden it.
    Originally posted by majnov
    The only possible chance you will have of winning any legal action is if you can prove that the seller was aware of the fault and that they made an effort to conceal it when asked about it prior to the purchase.
    Thinking that they knew about it is one thing.
    Actually proving it may be next to impossible.
    • angrycrow
    • By angrycrow 16th Apr 18, 5:17 PM
    • 542 Posts
    • 394 Thanks
    angrycrow
    • #3
    • 16th Apr 18, 5:17 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Apr 18, 5:17 PM
    So you bought a written off cat d car with no mot and now expect the seller to foot the bill for the transmission fault which you are intending to repair yourself.

    Can't see you winning that in court unless you can obtain cast iron proof the seller knew about the fault and lied.
    • majnov
    • By majnov 16th Apr 18, 5:19 PM
    • 10 Posts
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    majnov
    • #4
    • 16th Apr 18, 5:19 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Apr 18, 5:19 PM
    @GeorgeMichael Right. I do have messages through the app and SMS as the proof that the seller described the car in a mint condition while has been asked about any mechanical faults or warning lights.
    Last edited by majnov; 16-04-2018 at 5:23 PM.
    • majnov
    • By majnov 16th Apr 18, 5:21 PM
    • 10 Posts
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    majnov
    • #5
    • 16th Apr 18, 5:21 PM
    • #5
    • 16th Apr 18, 5:21 PM
    @angrycrow The seller thought that the car had MOT, I checked before the purchase and it expired a few days before the purchase. Previous MOT did not have any advisories and HPI was clear except CAT D.
    • caprikid1
    • By caprikid1 16th Apr 18, 5:25 PM
    • 641 Posts
    • 629 Thanks
    caprikid1
    • #6
    • 16th Apr 18, 5:25 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Apr 18, 5:25 PM
    How much did you pay for the car ? Miles , Model ?
    • caprikid1
    • By caprikid1 16th Apr 18, 5:26 PM
    • 641 Posts
    • 629 Thanks
    caprikid1
    • #7
    • 16th Apr 18, 5:26 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Apr 18, 5:26 PM
    Your best bet on this is search the internet for their mobile number and try and prove they are dealing cars. Then try and go under the assumption of a non private sale.
    • angrycrow
    • By angrycrow 16th Apr 18, 5:26 PM
    • 542 Posts
    • 394 Thanks
    angrycrow
    • #8
    • 16th Apr 18, 5:26 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Apr 18, 5:26 PM
    So what proof do you have that the clearly clueless about cars seller(see mot issue) hid a known gearbox fault prior to sale.

    How long had they owned the car and when did the cat d happen. Is it possible this person bought the car, repaired the body damage and sold it on without driving it any distance.
    • George Michael
    • By George Michael 16th Apr 18, 5:31 PM
    • 3,139 Posts
    • 4,217 Thanks
    George Michael
    • #9
    • 16th Apr 18, 5:31 PM
    • #9
    • 16th Apr 18, 5:31 PM
    @GeorgeMichael Right. I do have messages through the app and SMS as the proof that the seller described the car in a mint condition while has been asked about any mechanical faults or warning lights.
    Originally posted by majnov
    But those messages on their own don't help.
    You need proof that the seller knew about the fault and lied when specifically asked about it.

    You have fewer rights when you buy a used car from a private seller, and key parts of the Consumer Rights Act don't apply. For example, there is no legal requirement for a car to be of satisfactory quality or fit for purpose.

    But contractual rules about misrepresentation do apply. So, legally, the seller must:
    accurately describe the second-hand car. For example, an ad must not say 'one owner' when the car has had several
    not misrepresent the second-hand car, ie tell you something about it which isn't true. For example, if itís been in an accident, the owner mustn't tell you it hasn't.

    If you're buying from a private seller, the onus is on you as the buyer to ask all the right questions before making the purchase. The seller doesn't have to volunteer extra information so, if you don't ask questions, you may not have the full picture of the car's history or be aware of any potential faults.
    https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-second-hand-car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights
    • majnov
    • By majnov 16th Apr 18, 5:35 PM
    • 10 Posts
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    majnov
    @caprikid1 I paid good money if the car would be as of the advertised condition. 3K - Focus 2012, 49K mileage.
    The seller I believe is not the trader.
    • majnov
    • By majnov 16th Apr 18, 5:40 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    majnov
    @angrycrow . Based on the HPI. The car had Cat D in 09/16. The seller was driving it for around 9000 miles and he decided to sell it after 1.5 year. So the seller was driving the car for a good priod of time to know that something is wrong with the car prior selling it.
    • majnov
    • By majnov 16th Apr 18, 5:48 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    majnov
    But those messages on their own don't help.
    You need proof that the seller knew about the fault and lied when specifically asked about it.

    ]which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/the-second-hand-car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights
    Originally posted by George Michael
    "But contractual rules about misrepresentation do apply. So, legally, the seller must:

    accurately describe the second-hand car. For example, an ad must not say 'one owner' when the car has had several
    not misrepresent the second-hand car, ie tell you something about it which isn't true. For example, if itís been in an accident, the owner mustn't tell you it hasn't.
    If you're buying from a private seller, the onus is on you as the buyer to ask all the right questions before making the purchase. "

    -Based on this: I do have some ground to fill the claim, as the seller described the car in a mint condition, drives good, etc.
    • waamo
    • By waamo 16th Apr 18, 5:49 PM
    • 3,906 Posts
    • 5,101 Thanks
    waamo
    @caprikid1 I paid good money if the car would be as of the advertised condition. 3K - Focus 2012, 49K mileage.
    The seller I believe is not the trader.
    Originally posted by majnov
    Just how much is "good money". People are asking because it may be important.

    I don't think you have much hope however. The seller may have believed it was in mint condition. You have to demonstrate the seller knew it wasn't mint and knew it was faulty.

    Can you do that?
    This space for hire.
    • stator
    • By stator 16th Apr 18, 5:49 PM
    • 6,449 Posts
    • 4,308 Thanks
    stator
    A CAT D car cannot be in MINT condition. It's impossible.
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
    • wgl2014
    • By wgl2014 16th Apr 18, 5:56 PM
    • 755 Posts
    • 483 Thanks
    wgl2014
    Whilst I think it's likely the seller knew of the fault it's going to be difficult to prove it.
    Was it present on the test drive, I assume not, it therefore could have broken on your way home. There has to be a first time for the fault to show up.
    All the seller would have to say is they were unaware of the fault and with no evidence to disprove this your case will fail.
    • Money_Grabber13579
    • By Money_Grabber13579 16th Apr 18, 5:56 PM
    • 2,932 Posts
    • 1,429 Thanks
    Money_Grabber13579
    -Based on this: I do have some ground to fill the claim, as the seller described the car in a mint condition, drives good, etc.
    Originally posted by majnov
    Yes, but how do you prove that the seller knew it didnít ďdrives goodĒ at the time it was sold? If itís an intermittent fault or one that only developed after purchase (as much of a coincidence that may seem), you canít prove the seller knew about it and didnít tell you when you specifically asked whether there were any faults. You need to prove both of these things to have a case.
    Northern Ireland club member No 382
    • majnov
    • By majnov 16th Apr 18, 5:58 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    majnov
    Just how much is "good money". People are asking because it may be important.

    I don't think you have much hope however. The seller may have believed it was in mint condition. You have to demonstrate the seller knew it wasn't mint and knew it was faulty.

    Can you do that?
    Originally posted by waamo
    As I mentioned, I paid £3K.At some point, it looks a great price but it might looks that something would be wrong with the car due to price. Engine is good, Gearbox is good only TCM is a problem.

    It depends what was the damage to be a CAT D write off. It can be very slight body damage and the bill from authorised dealer can be £4-5K.
    • majnov
    • By majnov 16th Apr 18, 6:05 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    majnov
    Yes, but how do you prove that the seller knew it didnít ďdrives goodĒ at the time it was sold? If itís an intermittent fault or one that only developed after purchase (as much of a coincidence that may seem), you canít prove the seller knew about it and didnít tell you when you specifically asked whether there were any faults. You need to prove both of these things to have a case.
    Originally posted by Money_Grabber13579
    The seller was presnet at the test drive on a passener seat. The car started, everything was good in a short distance. After I drove 40 miles, it developed a fault and then the fault was present very often on short distances on the way to garages and ford service.
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 16th Apr 18, 6:11 PM
    • 2,098 Posts
    • 1,271 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    A CAT D car cannot be in MINT condition. It's impossible.
    Originally posted by stator
    Why not? Stolen with keys and recovered without damage.
    • AndyMc.....
    • By AndyMc..... 16th Apr 18, 6:13 PM
    • 2,098 Posts
    • 1,271 Thanks
    AndyMc.....
    The seller was presnet at the test drive on a passener seat. The car started, everything was good in a short distance. After I drove 40 miles, it developed a fault and then the fault was present very often on short distances on the way to garages and ford service.
    Originally posted by majnov
    So it drove ok when you bought it.
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