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  • FIRST POST
    • Cubeguy3
    • By Cubeguy3 16th Apr 18, 3:59 PM
    • 61Posts
    • 12Thanks
    Cubeguy3
    Misspelt Registration Number - Zero used not O - Smart PCN
    • #1
    • 16th Apr 18, 3:59 PM
    Misspelt Registration Number - Zero used not O - Smart PCN 16th Apr 18 at 3:59 PM
    I've had a read of the Newbies board but haven't found a close enough match to answer my question. Scanning some other posts there are a lot that cover 'my other car's registration was used, etc'.

    My wife has received a PCN from Smart Parking Limited, however the required payment was made to cover the time the car was parked on the land.

    The issue here is the ticket was entered with a Zero instead of an O in the last three letters of the registration number; we have the ticket to prove this.

    I am looking for some advice for the best approach to try and resolve this please.

    Many thanks
Page 1
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 16th Apr 18, 4:03 PM
    • 3,921 Posts
    • 4,720 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #2
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:03 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:03 PM
    Then you didnt read the newbies thread, which tells you NOT to look for the exact same circumstance. Its in bold. Really hard to miss.

    This is smart. They fold.

    FYI the VRM was not mistyped. O and 0 are the exact same on a VRM. The exact same. That their system inteprets a difference is nothing to do with you, its a flaw in their system.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 16th Apr 18, 4:05 PM
    • 37,942 Posts
    • 22,055 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #3
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:05 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:05 PM
    The newbies FAQ explains no need to find an exact match of circs

    Follow the appeal advice in the FAQ.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 16th Apr 18, 4:07 PM
    • 10,664 Posts
    • 11,049 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #4
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:07 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:07 PM
    I am sure you meant to write:
    The issue here is that for some strange reason the machine has printed the ticket with a Zero instead of an O in the last three letters of the registration number. We have the ticket to prove this.
    Interestingly, the typeface used for UK number plates makes no distinction between a 'O' and a '0', nor between an 'I' and a '1', so why does their stupid machine?

    Who is the parking company?
    Last edited by KeithP; 16-04-2018 at 4:13 PM.
    .
    • Cubeguy3
    • By Cubeguy3 16th Apr 18, 4:15 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Cubeguy3
    • #5
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:15 PM
    • #5
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:15 PM
    Who is the parking company?
    Originally posted by KeithP
    Smart Parking Limited
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 16th Apr 18, 4:16 PM
    • 4,344 Posts
    • 6,153 Thanks
    Half_way
    • #6
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:16 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:16 PM
    The OP said the PPC was (not that ) Smart.
    however a more important question would be, Who's car park was it?
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • Cubeguy3
    • By Cubeguy3 16th Apr 18, 4:18 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Cubeguy3
    • #7
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:18 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:18 PM
    Who's car park was it?
    Originally posted by Half_way
    There are only two retailers left there now, one is a bowling alley and the other is a Range outlet store - Matalan has moved on
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 16th Apr 18, 4:28 PM
    • 3,769 Posts
    • 6,183 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    • #8
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:28 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:28 PM
    The IAS in their 2017 Annual Report said

    Of course, it is incumbent upon the motorist to take reasonable care in entering their details, and when they fail to do so properly very often a charge may be justified. However, where the mistake is so trivial that even someone applying their full attention might not realise - such as entering a 0 instead of a O or a 1 instead of an I - then it is, in my view, unfair to enforce a charge. As a consequence, I released guidance to all the adjudicators that they should have regard to the nature and extent of such mistakes in determining whether a charge is lawful.

    I am pleased to say that, since issuing the guidance, there has been a visible reduction in the amount of cases where operators pursue such parking charges and far fewer (justifiably) frustrated motorists as a result.


    So a senior person in the industry says it is not justifiable - and would fail the Beavis test.So challenge Smart and POPLA to say different
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • Cubeguy3
    • By Cubeguy3 16th Apr 18, 4:33 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Cubeguy3
    • #9
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:33 PM
    • #9
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:33 PM
    The IAS in their 2017 Annual Report said

    Of course, it is incumbent upon the motorist to take reasonable care in entering their details, and when they fail to do so properly very often a charge may be justified. However, where the mistake is so trivial that even someone applying their full attention might not realise - such as entering a !!!8216;0!!!8217; instead of a !!!8216;O!!!8217; or a !!!8216;1!!!8217; instead of an !!!8216;I!!!8217; - then it is, in my view, unfair to enforce a charge. As a consequence, I released guidance to all the adjudicators that they should have regard to the nature and extent of such mistakes in determining whether a charge is lawful.

    I am pleased to say that, since issuing the guidance, there has been a visible reduction in the amount of cases where operators pursue such parking charges and far fewer (justifiably) frustrated motorists as a result.


    So a senior person in the industry says it is not justifiable - and would fail the Beavis test.So challenge Smart and POPLA to say different
    Originally posted by IamEmanresu
    This is great, thank you.

    Reading the FAQs I believe the recommended approach is to appeal with using the template beginning "I appeal and dispute your purported 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny liability and consider the PCN an absolute disgrace and pure intimidation."

    I was worried about doing this as my issue contains the trivial mistake as you have mentioned above and maybe a 'softer' response/appeal is worth it.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 16th Apr 18, 4:41 PM
    • 37,761 Posts
    • 84,792 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    On your head be it if you change the tried and tested method of using an appeal template that we know works, and doesn't inadvertently give away the driver's identity.

    You really, really, REALLY need to know what you are about if you are not going to use the information here that has been fine tuned by many people who have put in literally hundreds of hours to make it work.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 16-04-2018 at 8:24 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Cubeguy3
    • By Cubeguy3 16th Apr 18, 4:42 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Cubeguy3
    Can't argue with that reasoning - thanks!
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 16th Apr 18, 5:15 PM
    • 4,344 Posts
    • 6,153 Thanks
    Half_way
    There are only two retailers left there now, one is a bowling alley and the other is a Range outlet store - Matalan has moved on
    Originally posted by asbowen
    Ok, so tis a retial park, but whos retail park is it?
    British Land? Savils? someone else?
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 16th Apr 18, 5:39 PM
    • 10,583 Posts
    • 10,419 Thanks
    The Deep
    UKPC are fraudsters, read this

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11858473/Parking-firm-UKPC-admits-faking-tickets-to-fine-drivers.html

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/residential-parking.html

    https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/residential-parking/

    https://bmpa.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/213801109-Parking-Control-Management-Roboclaim-Residential-site

    https://bmpa.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/sections/115000492465-Residential-parking-problems




    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Cubeguy3
    • By Cubeguy3 16th Apr 18, 5:42 PM
    • 61 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Cubeguy3
    Ok, so tis a retial park, but whos retail park is it?
    British Land? Savils? someone else?
    Originally posted by Half_way
    I understand the owner is Aviva Investors
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 16th Apr 18, 5:46 PM
    • 20,238 Posts
    • 31,930 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    UKPC are fraudsters
    Originally posted by The Deep
    They might well be, TD, but this thread is about Smart Parking.

    Nurse .......!

    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 16th Apr 18, 6:00 PM
    • 3,769 Posts
    • 6,183 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    You really, really, REALLY need to know what you are about if you are not going to use the information here that has been fine tuned by many people who have put in literally hundreds of hours to make it work.
    Can't argue with that reasoning - thanks!
    +1 . But if the template doesn't work then you have a fall back of "de minimis"
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Apr 18, 12:30 AM
    • 63,875 Posts
    • 76,533 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Yes but it's Smart, and we all know that if a keeper appeals, Smart lose. Job done! So IMHO use the template and they will fold by May, I expect.

    Part of the good thing about the appeal template is the fact PPCs recognise it, even after it's been edited (I changed it only last week!). So you are sending them a subliminal message you don't even realise, by using it! The message says something like:

    'Get stuffed, you will lost at POPLA, I am on MSE and won't be telling you who was driving'!

    EDIT: Here's how it worked here today:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5813008

    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 17-04-2018 at 10:49 AM.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Cubeguy3
    • By Cubeguy3 16th May 18, 10:36 AM
    • 61 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Cubeguy3
    Thanks for the advice everyone:

    Thank you for your recent communication.
    I have noted the points you raised and would like to confirm that we are cancelling the Parking Charge Notice.
    If I can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me.
    Yours sincerely,
    Smart Parking Ltd
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 16th May 18, 11:11 AM
    • 37,761 Posts
    • 84,792 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Well done.

    Now complain to your MP and Sir Greg Knight MP about this unregulated scam.

    These are some of the comments made by the MPs in Parliament concerning the unregulated parking industry (Feb 2018):

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

    ''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

    These are the exact words used, so you should quote them to your MP in a complaint and ask him/her to contact Sir Greg Knight MP if he wants further information about this scam.

    It is imperative that MPs hear as many complaints as possible about these scammers.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th May 18, 12:31 AM
    • 63,875 Posts
    • 76,533 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Thanks for the advice everyone:

    Thank you for your recent communication.
    I have noted the points you raised and would like to confirm that we are cancelling the Parking Charge Notice.
    If I can be of any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact me.
    Yours sincerely,
    Smart Parking Ltd
    Originally posted by Cubeguy3
    Easy when you know how, isn't it?!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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