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  • FIRST POST
    • Seaskewer
    • By Seaskewer 16th Apr 18, 3:38 PM
    • 14Posts
    • 3Thanks
    Seaskewer
    BW legal/Excel small claim
    • #1
    • 16th Apr 18, 3:38 PM
    BW legal/Excel small claim 16th Apr 18 at 3:38 PM
    Hi all. The above have logged a small claim for nearly £300 for an alleged ďoverstayĒ in a car park in Wakefield in 2012.

    Iíve already completed all the necessary documents and filled my defence, which after reading some of the advice on here I wish I had taken more time to prepare.

    I have a couple of questions. I no longer live in the UK, Iím resident in France, does this have any implications for the courts jurisdiction to hear the claim.

    Am I able to re submit my defence document?

    So far I received no evidence from excel parking or BW Legal, and itís that long ago I have no idea who was driving, or any recollection of the alleged infringement.

    Iíd really appreciate any help you could offer me.

    Thanks in advance.
Page 2
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Apr 18, 5:36 PM
    • 64,896 Posts
    • 77,468 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    pre POFA.
    Means nothing to them, put the Act and Schedule in full, or better still (at this stage) don't even mention it because the court is not asking for (nor can court staff consider) your defence.

    I would ONLY ask:
    I am resident in France and do not fall under the jurisdiction of the court in England or Wales. I have made this clear in my DQ, however the case has been scheduled to be heard in Leeds in August. I would like clarification on this point please because I understand that I am outside jurisdiction and this was made clear before allocation.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 18th Apr 18, 6:20 AM
    • 3,784 Posts
    • 6,227 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    !!!8220;I am resident in France and do not fall under the jurisdiction of the court in England or Wales. I have made this clear in my DQ, however the case has been scheduled to be heard in Leeds in August. I would like clarification on this point please because I understand that I am outside jurisdiction and this was made clear before allocation."
    Coupon is spot on. The Court manager will only be interested in the process of making sure claims run on time and to the Court rules. If the Claimant has made a false claim about service or the court has missed a key point about jurisdiction (which seems to be the case), they will need to sort it.

    It will have to be put in front of a judge. There may be a question of will there be a fee to change/cancel and who should pay it.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to RTFM - the Civil Procedure Rules
    2. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend- See #1
    3. Failing to RTFCL - the Court letters
    4. Template defences that say nothing - See #1
    5. Forgetting about the Witness Statement - See #3
    • Seaskewer
    • By Seaskewer 18th Apr 18, 8:34 AM
    • 14 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Seaskewer
    Thanks for the advice, Iíll do that now. Will post my DQ when I get the copy from the court.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 18th Apr 18, 11:58 AM
    • 4,148 Posts
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    nosferatu1001
    You shoudl also make it clear that you will not be returning to the UK, so any hearing date will not be possible.
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 18th Apr 18, 12:10 PM
    • 1,183 Posts
    • 2,249 Thanks
    Johnersh
    If proceedings were acknowledged (without challenge) with an AoS the o/p has in fact already submitted to proceedings within the jurisdiction of E&W.
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 18th Apr 18, 12:55 PM
    • 3,784 Posts
    • 6,227 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    If proceedings were acknowledged (without challenge) with an AoS the o/p has in fact already submitted to proceedings within the jurisdiction of E&W.
    AFAIR the main issues with the MCOL site is that they do not allow a non-UK address to be entered. In addition if the OP wants to contest jurisdiction they have to use a N244 and pay £255. So what the LiP is left with is to follow an unfamiliar and unbending system and hope the court see the sense of the issue.

    But you can see the issue in two parts. Is the jurisdiction (E & W) correct and I'd say it is. Secondly are the parties within the jurisdiction which is this case (and others) they are not. The MCOL system appears incapable to picking up this second issue early on, which leads to all sorts of confusion which the solicitors for the PPC's like to use.
    Last edited by IamEmanresu; 18-04-2018 at 1:13 PM.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to RTFM - the Civil Procedure Rules
    2. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend- See #1
    3. Failing to RTFCL - the Court letters
    4. Template defences that say nothing - See #1
    5. Forgetting about the Witness Statement - See #3
    • Johnersh
    • By Johnersh 18th Apr 18, 1:18 PM
    • 1,183 Posts
    • 2,249 Thanks
    Johnersh
    AFAIR the main issues with the MCOL site is that they do not allow a non-UK address to be entered. In addition if the OP wants to contest jurisdiction they have to use a N244 and pay £255.
    Sort of. An application without notice for £100 would do it. The rules Regarding below. I've highlighted the problem.

    Procedure for disputing the courts jurisdiction CPR 11

    (1) A defendant who wishes to;

    (a) dispute the courts jurisdiction to try the claim; or

    (b) argue that the court should not exercise its jurisdiction

    may apply to the court for an order declaring that it has no such jurisdiction or should not exercise any jurisdiction which it may have.

    (2) A defendant who wishes to make such an application must first file an acknowledgment of service in accordance with Part 10.

    (3) A defendant who files an acknowledgment of service does not, by doing so, lose any right that he may have to dispute the courts jurisdiction.

    (4) An application under this rule must

    (a) be made within 14 days after filing an acknowledgment of service;
    and

    (b) be supported by evidence.

    (5) If the defendant

    (a) files an acknowledgment of service; and

    (b) does not make such an application within the period specified in paragraph (4),

    he is to be treated as having accepted that the court has jurisdiction to try the claim.


    By all means try but be aware that the court could well decide to disregard on the basis that a letter/application in whatever form is now well out of time.
    "The best advice I ever got was that knowledge is power and to keep reading."
    DISCLAIMER: I post thoughts as & when they occur. I don't advise. You are your own person and decision-maker. I'm unlikely to respond to DMs seeking personal advice. It's ill-advised & you lose the benefit of a group "take" on events.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 18th Apr 18, 3:08 PM
    • 3,784 Posts
    • 6,227 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    The rules are there and they must be obeyed as otherwise the system as it is would get itself into more of a mess than it is now. It is clearly not LiP friendly but the recent Wright Hassall (?) case concluded that if the rules are there to be read (on the internet) then a LiP is not disadvantaged.

    But this OP has to square the circle. The court has taken the fee and needs to fulfil it's obligation to the claimant. But clearly holding a hearing which a LiP cannot attend is unreasonable - which is why the CPR provides for it under CPR 3.1 (2)(b). The OP can request for it to be adjourned until such time as he/she is back within E&W.

    Claimant has the hearing on the system; defendant can make themselves available when they are back; and the court can keep it fee. Everyone's happy.
    Last edited by IamEmanresu; 19-04-2018 at 6:00 AM.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to RTFM - the Civil Procedure Rules
    2. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend- See #1
    3. Failing to RTFCL - the Court letters
    4. Template defences that say nothing - See #1
    5. Forgetting about the Witness Statement - See #3
    • Seaskewer
    • By Seaskewer 21st Jun 18, 4:13 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Seaskewer
    Hi all. I have a date set for ŗ claims hearing in Leeds. I!!!8217;ve finally received all the evidence they are using against me, this after the judge ordered BW Legal to do so after my many requests were ignored. I!!!8217;m really unsure what my defence should look like. All I know is the first I knew of this was late last year after some old redirected mail arrived to me in France where I am permanent resident. The alleged offence took place in Sep 2012, I can tremember where I parked a few week ago let alon e nearly six years ago. I!!!8217;ve genuinly claimed I don!!!8217;t know who was driving, as I don!!!8217;t.

    If someone kind enough could offer me some pearls of advice I!!!8217;d be grateful.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 21st Jun 18, 4:17 PM
    • 64,896 Posts
    • 77,468 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    As per your other thread, did you not declare you live in France?
    • Seaskewer
    • By Seaskewer 21st Jun 18, 4:48 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Seaskewer
    Yes when I filled the DQ out I made it clear and have also emailed the court directly confirming I!!!8217;m resident in France.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 22nd Jun 18, 2:02 AM
    • 64,896 Posts
    • 77,468 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Was the Claim form sent to a valid address for you in E&W then?

    Send BW Legal a costs schedule including the cost of flights and overnight accommodation to attend the hearing, make it very high, with evidence of flight cost, and invite them to discontinue.
    • Castle
    • By Castle 22nd Jun 18, 9:09 AM
    • 2,108 Posts
    • 2,830 Thanks
    Castle
    Was the Claim form sent to a valid address for you in E&W then?

    Send BW Legal a costs schedule including the cost of flights and overnight accommodation to attend the hearing, make it very high, with evidence of flight cost, and invite them to discontinue.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    And don't forget your taxi fares from/to the airports plus the loss of at least two days earnings.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 22nd Jun 18, 10:50 AM
    • 4,148 Posts
    • 5,001 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    earnings OR loss of leave.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 23rd Jun 18, 7:08 AM
    • 3,784 Posts
    • 6,227 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    Go back to the Court Manager and ask for the case to be adjourned under CPR 3.1 (2)(b) as you cannot attend (as you live in France). You've told the court this in their Directions Questionnaire (attach copy) but you will inform the court when you return permanently to the country.

    Ask them to put a copy on file with your case XXXXXX.

    Since a judge will not have seen this, and the issue is with the court manager, then the judge will be pretty !!!!ed off when they look at the papers and see you are not attending. It would be unreasonable for them to make a ruling in the knowledge that a defendant has clearly indicated they are non-resident since there would be a case for a set-aside if they did.

    Clearly if you sent costs to BW saying you'll be flying in will put a big hole in the above argument, so you have to decide on which strategy you want to use - a threat to BW or the court's rules.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to RTFM - the Civil Procedure Rules
    2. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend- See #1
    3. Failing to RTFCL - the Court letters
    4. Template defences that say nothing - See #1
    5. Forgetting about the Witness Statement - See #3
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 23rd Jun 18, 9:50 PM
    • 64,896 Posts
    • 77,468 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I like your alternative strategy, IamEmanresu.
    • DW190
    • By DW190 23rd Jun 18, 11:13 PM
    • 70 Posts
    • 97 Thanks
    DW190
    Judgements can be entered against a defendant in any European country.

    I have one against an x partner. To get it I had to get an order from the Court signed by a Judge served by a service processor in Spain. Went back to Court with a witness statement from the processor and a transcript of it and the same Judge entered Judgement.

    The order was that if the defendant did not file a defence by XX/XX/XX I the claimant could ask for Judgement to be entered.

    Lots of hassle but worth it for a six figure sum.

    The defendant just ignored and now has a hefty charge registered on his house attracting 8%.
    Last edited by DW190; 23-06-2018 at 11:18 PM.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 24th Jun 18, 5:21 AM
    • 3,784 Posts
    • 6,227 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    Judgements can be entered against a defendant in any European country.
    Agreed especially in Family Law/divorce cases which is why you have all these oligarchs or their ex-wives coming to London for divorce payouts.

    Can't see BW pay for a service processor (emphasis on process) for France.

    The OP would have had to a) accept jurisdiction which he has and b) accepted the timetabling which he hasn't.

    This is a scheduling rather than a legislation issue so going back to the court to reiterate his "availability" should happen. The defendant is entitled to be heard unless they have inadvertently returned the N159 instead of the N180 form that Gladstones slip in.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to RTFM - the Civil Procedure Rules
    2. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend- See #1
    3. Failing to RTFCL - the Court letters
    4. Template defences that say nothing - See #1
    5. Forgetting about the Witness Statement - See #3
    • Seaskewer
    • By Seaskewer 24th Jun 18, 4:40 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Seaskewer
    Hi, no they sent it to my old address.
    • DW190
    • By DW190 24th Jun 18, 5:00 PM
    • 70 Posts
    • 97 Thanks
    DW190
    Agreed especially in Family Law/divorce cases which is why you have all these oligarchs or their ex-wives coming to London for divorce payouts.
    Originally posted by IamEmanresu
    Business Partners. Three of them. Judgement for full claim against the absconder and an out of Court settlement with the other two.
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