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  • FIRST POST
    • Seaskewer
    • By Seaskewer 16th Apr 18, 3:38 PM
    • 14Posts
    • 3Thanks
    Seaskewer
    BW legal/Excel small claim
    • #1
    • 16th Apr 18, 3:38 PM
    BW legal/Excel small claim 16th Apr 18 at 3:38 PM
    Hi all. The above have logged a small claim for nearly £300 for an alleged ďoverstayĒ in a car park in Wakefield in 2012.

    Iíve already completed all the necessary documents and filled my defence, which after reading some of the advice on here I wish I had taken more time to prepare.

    I have a couple of questions. I no longer live in the UK, Iím resident in France, does this have any implications for the courts jurisdiction to hear the claim.

    Am I able to re submit my defence document?

    So far I received no evidence from excel parking or BW Legal, and itís that long ago I have no idea who was driving, or any recollection of the alleged infringement.

    Iíd really appreciate any help you could offer me.

    Thanks in advance.
Page 1
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 16th Apr 18, 3:49 PM
    • 3,115 Posts
    • 3,834 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #2
    • 16th Apr 18, 3:49 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Apr 18, 3:49 PM
    Exactly when in 2012 was it? I presume the driver was never identified.

    Which address did they send the claim form to? If you have acknowledged the claim without contesting jurisdiction, you have accepted the court has power. You cannot resubnmit your defence, so show us exactly what you wrote.

    Did you respond to any pre action letters? Yes or No
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 16th Apr 18, 4:30 PM
    • 3,004 Posts
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    IamEmanresu
    • #3
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:30 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:30 PM
    Is this Cavendish?
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • Seaskewer
    • By Seaskewer 16th Apr 18, 4:38 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Seaskewer
    • #4
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:38 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:38 PM
    Hi, it was in September 2012. They claim to have been sending letters to me from BW Legal, but they were being sent to my old address if sent at all, so the first I knew of this was when the small claim court papers came through to my redirected address form my old address.

    I did contests jurisdiction on the grounds I am not resident in England or Wales,, my d!fense is pretty shocking now I!!!8217;ve read throug the post in this forum, but here it is, please don!!!8217;t laugh too hard!

    I have no details of this !!!8220;alleged!!!8221; PCN notice nor have I seen any
    evidence in relation to this matter.

    As we are nearing the time limit for statute barred, I question
    why now I am being issued with this county court claim, when the claimant has had nearly 6 years to address this matter with me.

    I now live permanently in France, and have been so since the 8th
    October 2017. These papers have only just come to my attention as they were sent to the wrong address, which may explain why I haven!!!8217;t received any correspondance from Excel Parking or their representatives in relation to this matter, or given any notice of this pending claim.

    A CCJ cannot be registered against me as I no longer live in England or Wales and can provide proof if required. I also contest the courts jurisdiction in this matter as I no longe live n England or Wales.


    Thanks
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 17th Apr 18, 6:14 AM
    • 3,004 Posts
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    IamEmanresu
    • #5
    • 17th Apr 18, 6:14 AM
    • #5
    • 17th Apr 18, 6:14 AM
    A CCJ cannot be registered against me as I no longer live in England or Wales and can provide proof if required. I also contest the courts jurisdiction in this matter as I no longe live n England or Wales.
    This is incorrect. The CCJ will be entered against you at the E&W address unless you correct the court and the Claimant. When the Directions Questionnaire comes, that is the time to correct the issue of the address.

    You are allowed as an individual to have the case heard at your nearest (E&W) court or when you return to E&W. Since neither are possible you have to tell the court and Excel in a formal way.

    If you haven't sent in a defence, then tell the court that you are outside E&W and secondly the particulars are deficient in that they do not give enough information for you to mount a defence. Your being outside jurisdiction should be sufficient to kill it.

    If you have sent in a defence, pick up the issue at the Directions stage.

    The purpose of the Directions Questionnaire is to give the court the information they need to set a date. Question D1 will ask for your local court and D4 when you will be on holiday. So if you put in that your nearest court is in xxx country and D4 is not relevant as you won't be coming back to the UK in the foreseeable future. This passes the issue back to the court to contact BW to ask them what they intend to do. BW may suggest papers but you say 'no' to that - as you are entitled to.
    Last edited by IamEmanresu; 17-04-2018 at 6:30 AM.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 17th Apr 18, 8:11 AM
    • 3,115 Posts
    • 3,834 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    • #6
    • 17th Apr 18, 8:11 AM
    • #6
    • 17th Apr 18, 8:11 AM
    Did you actually tick the "i contest jurisdiction" box or did you just write it in the defence?
    Because one is actioned by the CCBC, the other isnt even looked at by them....

    As this is BEFORE the introduciton of POFA2012 they CANNOT hold the KEEPER (you) liable, ONLY the driver who they AND you do not know.
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 17th Apr 18, 9:13 AM
    • 3,004 Posts
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    IamEmanresu
    • #7
    • 17th Apr 18, 9:13 AM
    • #7
    • 17th Apr 18, 9:13 AM
    He's outside the jurisdiction whether he ticks the box or not. He needs to pick this up either with his defence or the DQ.

    It was correctly served and mistakenly acknowledged but it can't go forward if there is no "local" court for the OP. He just has to explain this.
    Last edited by IamEmanresu; 17-04-2018 at 9:17 AM.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • Seaskewer
    • By Seaskewer 17th Apr 18, 9:38 AM
    • 14 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Seaskewer
    • #8
    • 17th Apr 18, 9:38 AM
    • #8
    • 17th Apr 18, 9:38 AM
    Hi all, thanks for your advice. As I!!!8217;ve already completed all the forms sent to me by the court, and I!!!8217;m sure I said I had no intention of coming back to the UK, is it correct that they!!!8217;ve gone ahead and scheduled a hearing in Leeds on the 24th August? Is this something I can challenge as I am now resident in France?
    • Seaskewer
    • By Seaskewer 17th Apr 18, 10:25 AM
    • 14 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Seaskewer
    • #9
    • 17th Apr 18, 10:25 AM
    • #9
    • 17th Apr 18, 10:25 AM
    Thanks, I already completed the DQ and am pretty sure I did all of the above, but the hearing has been set for Leeds in August?
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 17th Apr 18, 10:26 AM
    • 3,004 Posts
    • 5,048 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    Is this something I can challenge as I am now resident in France?
    Do you intend to visit Leeds? Are you able to visit Leeds? Have you agreed a "papers only" instead as that is an option?

    You can see why BW get away with these claims as people can mess it up and get them an easy win. Whether they can collect is another matter but best not lose it anyway.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 17th Apr 18, 10:52 AM
    • 3,115 Posts
    • 3,834 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Thanks, I already completed the DQ and am pretty sure I did all of the above, but the hearing has been set for Leeds in August?
    Originally posted by Seaskewer
    You NEVER said you had completed your DQ already!

    What fdid you put, EXACTLY, on your DQ?
    Rushing to complete legal forms is only going to end one way...
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Apr 18, 11:11 AM
    • 60,110 Posts
    • 73,244 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Change it to Skipton or Manchester, do you have a relative near there?! Give their address...

    ...then ask for a hearing on the papers...(Not at Leeds!)
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Seaskewer
    • By Seaskewer 17th Apr 18, 11:29 AM
    • 14 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Seaskewer
    Hi, how do I go about requesting !!!8220;on papers!!!8221; and changing the court. I have no intention of going back to the uk, I!!!8217;m permanent resident in France. Is it just a case of writing to the court and to excel parking reiterating this fact. I!!!8217;ve requested a copy of the DQ from the court, but I definitely corrected them on my status as a French resident, proven by all correspondance now coming to me directly to Versailles.

    If someone could kindly just give me a step by step I!!!8217;d really appreciate it.

    Alternatively would it be worth while me getting a solicitor involved?

    Thanks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Apr 18, 11:34 AM
    • 60,110 Posts
    • 73,244 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Alternatively would it be worth while me getting a solicitor involved?
    No. Absolutely not, You would not believe how solicitors muck these cases up! I bet a solicitor would start talking about contract law and the driver, and not spot that this is pre-POFA (your main defence as keeper).

    As long as the driver was never identified in any early appeal or contact (or your defence?) between 2012 and now, you (as registered keeper) cannot be held liable for a pre-POFA private PCN, under any applicable law.

    Can you nominate an address near Manchester or Skipton (I am not joking) and if so, you just say that's your UK base and address for service. Then wait till the case is transferred, then finally write to Manchester or Skipton, once allocated there, and ask for a decision on the papers.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Seaskewer
    • By Seaskewer 17th Apr 18, 11:41 AM
    • 14 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Seaskewer
    All my family live in Leeds or Wakefield would that cause a problem having the case transferred? And do I need to put this in writing to the court? Also could you just explain op papers for me?

    As Iíve put my shoddy d!fense in already, can I write a witness statement contains your suggestion above?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Apr 18, 12:00 PM
    • 60,110 Posts
    • 73,244 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Does the shoddy defence (please show us what you put, exactly, you MUST have kept a copy) admit who was driving?

    Did any previous contact admit who was driving?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 17th Apr 18, 12:24 PM
    • 3,004 Posts
    • 5,048 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    Call the court and explain your predicament - which is you are no longer a UK resident. See what they say. They may suggest papers or paying a fee to get the matter in front of a judge (£255?) to get the case stayed until you return if at all.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 17th Apr 18, 1:44 PM
    • 3,115 Posts
    • 3,834 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    What did you put in your DQ?
    It would be REALLY great if you could give us some real specifics!

    "on papers" means no hearing, the judge just reads documents submitted by both sides.
    • Seaskewer
    • By Seaskewer 17th Apr 18, 3:27 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Seaskewer
    Hereís the wording of my d!fense. At no point have I admitted driving the Car. I have submitted the DQ and am waiting for a copy of this to be sent back to me, will post once I get it.

    I have no details of this !!!8220;alleged!!!8221; PCN notice nor have I seen any
    evidence in relation to this matter.

    As we are nearing the time limit for statute barred, I question
    why now I am being issued with this county court claim, when the claimant has had nearly 6 years to address this matter with me.

    I now live permanently in France, and have been so since the 8th
    October 2017. These papers have only just come to my attention as they were sent to the wrong address, which may explain why I haven!!!8217;t received any correspondance from Excel Parking or their representatives in relation to this matter, or given any notice of this pending claim.

    A CCJ cannot be registered against me as I no longer live in England or Wales and can provide proof if required. I also contest the courts jurisdiction in this matter as I no longe live n England or WalesL
    • Seaskewer
    • By Seaskewer 17th Apr 18, 5:21 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Seaskewer
    I spoke to the court, they asked me to email them all the points I have questions to, I haven!!!8217;t sent this yet, interested in your thoughts.


    Hi.

    I!!!8217;m writing to you today to hopefully resolve some issues i have with the above small claim made against me by BW Legal on behalf of Excel Parking.

    The first, and most important is the fact the alleged breach of contract happened in Sept 2012, pre POFA. As such, and given the timescales in between the alleged breach, I can neither remember parking in the car park, nor can I confirm who the driver was at the time.

    Secondly, the particulars of the alleged breach are deficient in that they do not give me enough information for to mount a reasonable defence. I have requested further information from Excel Parking and BW Legal but am yet to receive a response.

    Thirdly, I am resident in France and do not fall under the jurisdiction of the court in England or Wales. I have made this clear in my DQ, however the case has been scheduled to be heard in Leeds in August. I would like clarification on this point please.


    Regards
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