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  • FIRST POST
    • sderrick
    • By sderrick 16th Apr 18, 3:27 PM
    • 23Posts
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    sderrick
    Renegiotators, chipping and other tactics..
    • #1
    • 16th Apr 18, 3:27 PM
    Renegiotators, chipping and other tactics.. 16th Apr 18 at 3:27 PM
    I'd like to hear from both sides. What do you find morally acceptable? Is all fair in love and home buying?


    Have you had it done to yourself and changes chances later in life?


    I'm currently selling a flat with an agreed price of 245,000. Cash buyers.


    They had their survey done and found a number of problems, artex ceiling which "need" removing, re-wire the whole flat etc.


    Reduced offer by 15,000, then 7,500...we offered 3,000 off and that was final and now they come back with 5,000! At this point, it's not even about the work, they are just renegotiating and trying to chip off the price the closer it gets to exchanging.
Page 1
    • hazyjo
    • By hazyjo 16th Apr 18, 3:40 PM
    • 10,337 Posts
    • 13,380 Thanks
    hazyjo
    • #2
    • 16th Apr 18, 3:40 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Apr 18, 3:40 PM
    Any reduction for the Artex would get a big fat no from me. As for the rewire - well, it depends on the wording. Have they actually had an electrician round or are they going by the usual survey wording of 'does not meet current regs'? That does not mean a rewire.


    It would depend what I could afford and how fair their requests were. I'd not agree the lot, maybe half (which at a guess would be no more than 1500 and that is if the rewire was actually necessary.


    I would have no hesitation in telling someone no. If they walk, they walk. I have dropped prices several times as a seller and buyer. But nothing to take the p'.
    2018 wins: Single Malt Whisky; theatre tickets; festival tickets; year of gin!
    • sderrick
    • By sderrick 16th Apr 18, 3:54 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    sderrick
    • #3
    • 16th Apr 18, 3:54 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Apr 18, 3:54 PM
    Any reduction for the Artex would get a big fat no from me. As for the rewire - well, it depends on the wording. Have they actually had an electrician round or are they going by the usual survey wording of 'does not meet current regs'? That does not mean a rewire.


    It would depend what I could afford and how fair their requests were. I'd not agree the lot, maybe half (which at a guess would be no more than 1500 and that is if the rewire was actually necessary.


    I would have no hesitation in telling someone no. If they walk, they walk. I have dropped prices several times as a seller and buyer. But nothing to take the p'.
    Originally posted by hazyjo



    Usual Survey wording, I've had two independent electricians come in and do themselves out of work by saying it doesn't need re-wiring, just a new fuse box.

    Feel like I am getting ripped off here, I always thought I was quite ruthless in negotiations but I'm not sure I could pull this on someone else trying to sell their home.


    Maybe if there is genuine work, but my buyers are property investors they know how to play the game!
    • davidmcn
    • By davidmcn 16th Apr 18, 4:00 PM
    • 7,331 Posts
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    davidmcn
    • #4
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:00 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:00 PM
    If they're property investors rather than nave FTBers, even less excuse for them not spotting artex or old(ish) wiring on first viewing.
    • NaughtiusMaximus
    • By NaughtiusMaximus 16th Apr 18, 4:10 PM
    • 622 Posts
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    NaughtiusMaximus
    • #5
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:10 PM
    • #5
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:10 PM
    Any reduction for the Artex would get a big fat no from me. As for the rewire - well, it depends on the wording. Have they actually had an electrician round or are they going by the usual survey wording of 'does not meet current regs'? That does not mean a rewire.

    It would depend what I could afford and how fair their requests were. I'd not agree the lot, maybe half (which at a guess would be no more than 1500 and that is if the rewire was actually necessary.

    I would have no hesitation in telling someone no. If they walk, they walk. I have dropped prices several times as a seller and buyer. But nothing to take the p'.
    Originally posted by hazyjo
    Pretty much agree with all of this. My thoughts are no discounts for anything which is either apparent on viewing or is to be expected for a property of the age and type in question.

    I would have no hesitation in telling someone no. If they walk, they walk. I have dropped prices several times as a seller and buyer. But nothing to take the p'.
    Originally posted by hazyjo
    Asking for a reduction based on the artex definitely falls into that category, did they forget to look up when they viewed the property? A 3,000 reduction for re-wiring is very reasonable on the OPs part, I would stick with that and not go any lower. One of the risks with these sort of 'investors' IMO is if you give in to them at an early stage they'll see you as a soft touch and try to push additional price reductions further down the line.
    • hazyjo
    • By hazyjo 16th Apr 18, 4:12 PM
    • 10,337 Posts
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    hazyjo
    • #6
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:12 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:12 PM
    I've been lucky with investors in the past, but, if they are investors, they often get bad press on here as they can try large price drops, especially before exchange.


    In that case - I'd tell them to whistle and remarket immediately.


    Doesn't really matter if they spotted the Artex or not when viewing - still no reason to drop the price. Agree thought that investors should know what an old fuse box looks like. Consequently no price drop needed there either. Not like they needed a surveyor to point that one out, it was all there at the viewing. Say the flat was for sale with that taken into account anyway.
    2018 wins: Single Malt Whisky; theatre tickets; festival tickets; year of gin!
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 16th Apr 18, 4:19 PM
    • 4,137 Posts
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    Cakeguts
    • #7
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:19 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:19 PM
    Check that they are actual cash buyers with the money in the bank and they don't have to sell a property to get the cash.

    If they don't like the survey results they don't have to buy your property.
    • Katapolt
    • By Katapolt 16th Apr 18, 4:26 PM
    • 177 Posts
    • 241 Thanks
    Katapolt
    • #8
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:26 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:26 PM
    I did negotiate almost 5k off of the price originally agreed, but that was due to damaged roof, brickwork and asbestos in the loft that we hadnt been allowed to go into on viewing.

    In hindsight i feel bad- but he needed a quick sale and as FTB we didnt know what to look for or expect really. We went for it with a "dont ask dont get" mentality and would've gone ahead, albeit a bit saddened, if theyd declined.
    FTB 2017
    Currently dealing with a Quarter Life Crisis
    • ACG
    • By ACG 16th Apr 18, 4:43 PM
    • 16,697 Posts
    • 8,681 Thanks
    ACG
    • #9
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:43 PM
    • #9
    • 16th Apr 18, 4:43 PM
    If there are problems with a property that you/the vendor were unaware of renegotiation is fair game.

    Artex is not a reason to negotiate, you have offered more than I would have in your shoes. That will not affect the value and artex does not necessarily mean there is asbestos in it.
    • sderrick
    • By sderrick 16th Apr 18, 4:47 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    sderrick
    If they're property investors rather than nave FTBers, even less excuse for them not spotting artex or old(ish) wiring on first viewing.
    Originally posted by davidmcn


    Oh even worse, they asked about artex ceiling before viewing and I told them. It's all just a ploy for more money.


    I am over the barrel on this one, as it's the first offer we have had on the flat since marketing it - over 6-7 months. I want to tell them FO but we have an offer accepted on a house we really want and they probably know this.
    • ReadingTim
    • By ReadingTim 16th Apr 18, 5:03 PM
    • 2,551 Posts
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    ReadingTim
    Whilst a certain element of "negotiation" is customary, there comes a time when the games need to stop and the deal needs to be done - or it's recognised that the deal will never be done, and the parties walk away.

    Pre-survey, anything goes. Post survey, you're generally down to things which aren't obvious to the naked eye (ie the reason you hire a surveyor). After that, then you have to ask whether such gamesmanship is in order to achieve a result, or simply to keep playing a game.

    But it takes both sides to play this game and keep playing it, so if you're getting sick of it, stop playing. By starting to say what you mean, and mean what you say you soon force the question as to whether a deal can actually be done, or not.
    • hazyjo
    • By hazyjo 16th Apr 18, 5:04 PM
    • 10,337 Posts
    • 13,380 Thanks
    hazyjo
    Just say it's very unfortunate but that's more than you have in the bank so it'll regretfully have to be a no. If they think that's it, they'll stop. If they know you'll keep reducing, they'll keep asking/insisting.


    You take the risk of losing them though. Don't cut your nose off to spite your face. Depends if you want to risk them dropping the price again later, and if you trust them(!), and if you do actually have the money! You could always try getting the links above you to pay, although that's not going to go down well.


    Make sure you take everything you can possibly take (not ticked as being left) and I'd not go out of my way for them. Yes business is business, but it doesn't sound like they're playing particularly fair.
    2018 wins: Single Malt Whisky; theatre tickets; festival tickets; year of gin!
    • ReadingTim
    • By ReadingTim 16th Apr 18, 5:10 PM
    • 2,551 Posts
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    ReadingTim
    I am over the barrel on this one, as it's the first offer we have had on the flat since marketing it - over 6-7 months. I want to tell them FO but we have an offer accepted on a house we really want and they probably know this.
    Originally posted by sderrick
    Mate, it's not the buyer's fault theirs is the first/only offer you've had in 6-7 months...

    You've put yourself over that barrel I'm afraid.
    • sderrick
    • By sderrick 16th Apr 18, 5:19 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    sderrick
    Mate, it's not the buyer's fault theirs is the first/only offer you've had in 6-7 months...

    You've put yourself over that barrel I'm afraid.
    Originally posted by ReadingTim


    Yes I know that, but there still has to be some morals about it.
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 16th Apr 18, 5:55 PM
    • 2,908 Posts
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    Smodlet
    What hazyjo said; "investors" never play fair in my experience, their default setting is taking the urine. Whether you allow them to, OP, is your decision to make but, if theirs is the only offer you have had in six months, perhaps your expectations could do with a reality check; sorry, that's the way it is.
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 16th Apr 18, 7:25 PM
    • 4,137 Posts
    • 5,779 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    What hazyjo said; "investors" never play fair in my experience, their default setting is taking the urine. Whether you allow them to, OP, is your decision to make but, if theirs is the only offer you have had in six months, perhaps your expectations could do with a reality check; sorry, that's the way it is.
    Originally posted by Smodlet
    Some investors do play fair and still offer cash.
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 16th Apr 18, 9:07 PM
    • 2,908 Posts
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    Smodlet
    Some investors do play fair and still offer cash.
    Originally posted by Cakeguts
    And offer anything over 75% of what the property is worth? Not in my, admittedly limited, experience.
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • Cakeguts
    • By Cakeguts 16th Apr 18, 9:11 PM
    • 4,137 Posts
    • 5,779 Thanks
    Cakeguts
    And offer anything over 75% of what the property is worth? Not in my, admittedly limited, experience.
    Originally posted by Smodlet
    You haven't met me. Mind you we don't buy property that is difficult to sell on the basis that if someone doesn't want to buy it to live in no one is going to want to rent it. In business both sides have to feel that they have won a little bit.
    • cjmillsnun
    • By cjmillsnun 16th Apr 18, 11:38 PM
    • 597 Posts
    • 731 Thanks
    cjmillsnun
    I'd be back in and say no, 3k was my final offer which was more than reasonable.

    State factually that to bring it up to regs requires a consumer unit change and perhaps some minor works on top. Not a full rewire, and that the artex ceiling was there and visible when they viewed.

    Do you have the rightmove link? We have had success stories on here with suggestions for some cheap changes that have made properties much more saleable very quickly, so it may be worth it if they bail on you so you can get the place under offer again quickly.
    2.88 kWp System, SE Facing, 30 Degree Pitch, 12 x 240W Conergy Panels, Samil Solar River Inverter, Havant, Hampshire. Installed July 2012, acquired by me on purchase of house in August 2017
    • ReadingTim
    • By ReadingTim 17th Apr 18, 9:56 AM
    • 2,551 Posts
    • 3,644 Thanks
    ReadingTim
    Yes I know that, but there still has to be some morals about it.
    Originally posted by sderrick
    The moral is, if it's taken that long to get an offer, it's overpriced.

    The buyer knows it. You know it too, but are in denial. It doesn't really matter what their tactics are - it's how you react. You're indulging them and allowing them to continue to try it on. If you don't like it, stand firm and insist on your price. Take it or leave it.

    Or, if you're that annoyed, remarket it and sell to someone else. Whether you can find someone else however, and what price they'll give you, is another question...
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