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    • MOP5561
    • By MOP5561 15th Apr 18, 5:37 PM
    • 4Posts
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    MOP5561
    Please Help - PCN
    • #1
    • 15th Apr 18, 5:37 PM
    Please Help - PCN 15th Apr 18 at 5:37 PM
    Hi all, I received a PCN from APCOA Parking (railway station parking) in the post. It's an ANPR notice - or at least there is a picture of my car on the notice.

    The issue date is the 9th April and the incident date is the 23rd March. I understand (I think correctly) that they 14 days to issue the PCN. This is obvious 2 days out BUT if I were to appeal, could they argue that the extra two days were bank holidays (Good Friday and Easter Monday)?

    Any advise would be gratefully received.

    Thanks.
Page 1
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 15th Apr 18, 5:56 PM
    • 8,685 Posts
    • 8,601 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #2
    • 15th Apr 18, 5:56 PM
    • #2
    • 15th Apr 18, 5:56 PM
    If the NtK is dated more than fourteen days after the event, then it is conclusive proof that the keeper did not receive it in time for the keeper to be held liable under PoFA.

    Bank Holidays, Saturdays and Sundays are all counted.

    However, being a railway station car park, there is more to it than that.
    Last edited by KeithP; 15-04-2018 at 5:58 PM.
    .
    • MOP5561
    • By MOP5561 15th Apr 18, 6:07 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    MOP5561
    • #3
    • 15th Apr 18, 6:07 PM
    • #3
    • 15th Apr 18, 6:07 PM
    Thanks KeithP. So even with bank holidays, they stilll have to send within 14 days - I have a good case to appeal?

    In what way are railway stations more complicated?

    Many thanks.
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 15th Apr 18, 6:08 PM
    • 10,509 Posts
    • 9,833 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    • #4
    • 15th Apr 18, 6:08 PM
    • #4
    • 15th Apr 18, 6:08 PM
    They are way out of time.

    Two golden tickets to you.

    1. If they want to pretend it's a POFA case, then the NtK must be in your hands by April 6th. So dated on or before 4th April. They are out of time for Keeper Liability.

    Railway stations are usually covered by bylaws so, as said, they are treated differently.

    Thoroughly read the NEWBIES thread and follow its advice, particularly about not admitting who was driving.

    And there are loads of threads on here about parking at railway stations. Search and read some of them to get up to speed quickly.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 15th Apr 18, 6:15 PM
    • 9,968 Posts
    • 9,765 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #5
    • 15th Apr 18, 6:15 PM
    • #5
    • 15th Apr 18, 6:15 PM
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • MOP5561
    • By MOP5561 15th Apr 18, 7:22 PM
    • 4 Posts
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    MOP5561
    • #6
    • 15th Apr 18, 7:22 PM
    • #6
    • 15th Apr 18, 7:22 PM
    Thanks all. Should my appeal be strong enough with the 14 day limit? Or should I mention anything about it being parking at a railway station. If the former, is the following letter sufficient? Thanks again.

    Dear Sirs

    Re: PCN No.

    I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

    Notice to Keeper not issued within the mandatory 14 days, as no windscreen PCN was issued.

    'A notice to keeper must be served not later than 14 days after the vehicle was parked'

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

    I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

    Yours faithfully,
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 15th Apr 18, 8:22 PM
    • 8,685 Posts
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    KeithP
    • #7
    • 15th Apr 18, 8:22 PM
    • #7
    • 15th Apr 18, 8:22 PM
    Have you read other threads about railway station car parks?

    Any thing about Railway Byelaws?

    I suspect the response from the PPC will be along the lines of "we are not relying on PoFA. In Railway Byelaws cases the Owner may be liable".
    .
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 15th Apr 18, 9:47 PM
    • 10,509 Posts
    • 9,833 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    • #8
    • 15th Apr 18, 9:47 PM
    • #8
    • 15th Apr 18, 9:47 PM
    Thanks all. Should my appeal be strong enough with the 14 day limit? Or should I mention anything about it being parking at a railway station. If the former, is the following letter sufficient? Thanks again.

    Dear Sirs

    Re: PCN No.

    I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car.

    Notice to Keeper not issued within the mandatory 14 days, as no windscreen PCN was issued.

    'A notice to keeper must be served not later than 14 days after the vehicle was parked'

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

    I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

    Yours faithfully,
    Originally posted by MOP5561
    You need to combine the two.

    I am the keeper but that does not mean I am driver. Land covered by bylaws so no obligation to name driver as land not covered by POFA.

    Keeper only obligated under POFA 2012 to name driver or accept keeper liability but your NtK arrived outside the 14 day limit mandated by POFA.

    Obviously expand properly but that's the substance.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Apr 18, 1:46 AM
    • 60,110 Posts
    • 73,250 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 16th Apr 18, 1:46 AM
    • #9
    • 16th Apr 18, 1:46 AM
    None of it matters, this is APCOA, they lose every time, 100% they have no chance at POPLA.

    Such an easy one.

    Use the NEWBIES thread blue writing appeal template (NO do not change it, YES it all applies, YES the signs were unclear...), then at POPLA stage, copy from another APCOA thread.

    Search APCOA POPLA railway. Job done.

    This is a cinch, no need for APCOA or Highview threads. Honestly why even talk about the 14 days, it is IRRELEVANT to a non POFA PCN anyway, who cares about the date when the PCN is not a POFA one, which APCOA railway ones never are?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • MOP5561
    • By MOP5561 16th Apr 18, 11:19 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    MOP5561
    Thanks for this. Just logging my appeal on the Apcoa website and wondering what the implications are of the options that I'm being offered on the screen as reasons for my challenge. If I don't click "The contravention did not occur." am I admitting that it did occur?? Or am I just being paranoid and should just select "Other".

    - My vehicle was stolen
    - The contravention did no occur
    - The amount specified on the notice is incorrect
    - I was not the registered keeper/driver at the time of the contravention
    - Mitigating circumstances prevented me from parking correctly
    - Other
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 16th Apr 18, 11:33 AM
    • 37,219 Posts
    • 83,948 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Always select "other."
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Apr 18, 1:23 PM
    • 60,110 Posts
    • 73,250 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    If I don't click "The contravention did not occur." am I admitting that it did occur?? Or am I just being paranoid and should just select "Other".
    The NEWBIES thread post #3 tells newbies how to lodge a POPLA appeal, under 'OTHER'.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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