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  • FIRST POST
    • Yoooz
    • By Yoooz 15th Apr 18, 1:23 PM
    • 19Posts
    • 10Thanks
    Yoooz
    Parking ticket from APCOA at Luton Airport
    • #1
    • 15th Apr 18, 1:23 PM
    Parking ticket from APCOA at Luton Airport 15th Apr 18 at 1:23 PM
    Hi everyone,

    I've just received a PCN from APCOA for alleged contravention of dropping off or picking up outside designated areas on the approach to Luton Airport.

    I've gone through the newbies thread and found a lot of useful information on how to and on what grounds to appeal the PCN but none of the cases was the same as mine.

    Someone has dropped a friend to the airport. On the approach, before the tunnel (if anyone is familiar with the area), which is about 300-400 yards from the airport there was a stationary traffic and they were queuing there for a a couple of minutes when my friend decided to get off the car and walk as it would take at least another 20-30 mins in that queue to get to the drop off area and he could have missed the flight. I was shocked to receive this PCN as the keeper of the vehicle as from what I know they have not purposely stopped or park the car in the lay bay to drop him off. It was only because of the traffic and they were behind a number of cars on the main road.

    The pictures show no more than my car queuing in the stationery traffic. I found the road signs from that road on google maps, that tells you not to stop to drop people off, but how could they not stop when there's a stationery traffic ahead of them? Isn't that a breach of human rights when they not allowing anyone out of the car when on the road? Their point might have been valid if the car was actually in their car park or on the side of the road but in a queue?

    Also another thing worth mentioning is the date this occurred: 30/03, notice issued 13/04, I received it 14/04. Not sure if there's a ground to appeal as I received it on 15th day but it was issued on 14th day so does POFA 2012 apply in this scenario as the PCN hasn't arrived by day 14?
    They wrote ''as we don't know the name of the driver we request that you either pay the full amount outstanding or if you were not the driver at the time provide us with the name and their address and pass this notice onto them''.

    In the newbies thread it says ''If they are a firm which alleges 'keeper liability' under the POFA 2012 (which they don't have to!) the a postal PCN must arrive by day 14 if there was no windscreen ticket''. Is that what the case? as they haven't mentioned POFA 2012, which leads me to think that I could apply this hint:
    ''Some firms (e.g. Civil Enforcement, Highview, Smart Parking and some small PPCs) don't even bother with POFA 2012 wording so the keeper is not liable if you point that out to POPLA.

    On the signs it says ''private road'' so not sure if I could use the bylaws ground in the appeal.
    They have not included the contract/permission from the landlord though.

    I would be really grateful if anyone could help me with this.

    I tried posting links to the pictures of the PCN and the road signs but as a new user can't do that.

    Many thanks in advance for any help
    Last edited by Yoooz; 15-04-2018 at 5:36 PM.
Page 2
    • Yoooz
    • By Yoooz 15th Apr 18, 5:39 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    Yoooz
    Thanks Quentin
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 15th Apr 18, 5:59 PM
    • 2,281 Posts
    • 2,718 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    Roads can never be relevant land
    They're under the control of the RTE at minimum.
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 15th Apr 18, 6:02 PM
    • 10,400 Posts
    • 9,647 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    Roads can never be relevant land
    They're under the control of the RTE at minimum.
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    Not sure that is as clear as you would like. Roads on private land can be relevant.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 16th Apr 18, 2:12 AM
    • 56,275 Posts
    • 69,906 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Read this:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=74167096#post74167096

    No need for APCOA or Highview threads. They are as simple as copy/pasting. All are won easily, just copy one.

    Please no discussion about the 14 days ever again, when the PCN is non POFA.

    Please please please, not needed. THE DATE IS NOT RELEVANT TO A NON POFA PCN.

    EEEK! Can we not have to discuss this every other day?

    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Yoooz
    • By Yoooz 17th Apr 18, 10:49 AM
    • 19 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    Yoooz
    Hi everyone,

    I got the template from newbies thread ready to send but just wanted to confirm with you before sending it off.
    Do I need to include the wording keeper's address (in red at the bottom) or just the name & address? Also is it worth mentioning the driver stopped only because of traffic jam and not purposely to let passengers off the car or should I just leave it for now and only use it if it goes to POPLA stage?

    Once again many thanks for your advice


    Dear Sir/Madam,

    Re PCN number:xxx

    I appeal and dispute your purported 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle.
    I deny liability and consider the PCN an absolute disgrace and pure intimidation.

    There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn, nor was there any agreed contract. Your signage terms fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence of the parking charge, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis, which is fully distinguished.

    Should you fail to cancel this PCN, I require the following information with your rejection letter:

    1. Please provide dated photos of the signs on site, which you contend formed a contract.
    2. Please provide!all!images taken of this vehicle on that day, at the material location.

    I will use POPLA (if offered) not the 'IAS' which has been exposed in Parliament as compromised by a conflict of interests with the IPC. The BPA were also heavily criticised and both appeals systems were condemned - hardly surprising for an industry where so-called AOS members admitted in recent years to letting victims 'futilely go through the motions' of appeal and saying on camera 'we make it up sometimes' (BBC Watchdog). Firms of your ilk were unanimously criticised in 2018 as operating an 'outrageous scam' (Hansard 2.2.18).

    I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and will also be making a formal complaint about your predatory and aggressive conduct to your client landowner, as well as complaining in writing to my MP and ensuring that they are appraised of the debate where Parliament agreed by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists...should not have to put up with this''.

    Yours faithfully,


    THE NAME AND POSTAL ADDRESS OF THE KEEPER:

    Name
    Address
    Last edited by Yoooz; 17-04-2018 at 10:51 AM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Apr 18, 10:52 AM
    • 56,275 Posts
    • 69,906 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Do I need to include the wording keeper's address (in red at the bottom) or just the name & address?
    Remove the red bit!

    Also is it worth mentioning the driver stopped only because of traffic jam and not purposely to let passengers off the car or should I just leave it for now and only use it if it goes to POPLA stage?
    No, save it for POPLA but being careful never to say 'I did this' or mention who was driving.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 17th Apr 18, 10:55 AM
    • 35,136 Posts
    • 19,238 Thanks
    Quentin
    Did you go to the post CM gave you a link to (at 2.12 this morning)? (#24)


    It answers your query! (don't change the template!!)


    No need to get confirmation of every stage in the process as set out in the FAQ
    Last edited by Quentin; 17-04-2018 at 11:10 AM.
    • Yoooz
    • By Yoooz 17th Apr 18, 11:11 AM
    • 19 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    Yoooz
    I did Quentin, but it's my mentality to make sure and check things 3 times to get it right rather than just doing it and being wrong Sorry for not sticking to the advice in first place. Won't do it again, I promise.
    I got one final question: do I just send it anytime or wait till it gets closer to the 14 days from the date of the issue of this notice?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 17th Apr 18, 11:13 AM
    • 35,136 Posts
    • 19,238 Thanks
    Quentin
    Makes no difference as POFA is irrelevant with apcoa!


    Make sure you send it within the deadline
    • Yoooz
    • By Yoooz 17th Apr 18, 12:24 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    Yoooz
    Sorry guys but I got another hurdle and don't wanna get it wrong.
    When sending appeal I got 6 options to choose from at the Apcoa website and don't wanna pick the wrong one and mess it up. I was going to pick the second one but maybe it has the be the 4?
    1. My vehicle was stolen
    2. The contravention did not occur
    3. The amount specified on the notice is incorrect
    4. I was not the Registered Keeper/Driver at the time of the contravention
    5. Mitigating circumstances prevented me from parking correctly
    6. Other

    I just wanted to say I really appreciate your help so far. Thank you
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Apr 18, 12:26 PM
    • 56,275 Posts
    • 69,906 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    2 or 6 would be safe!
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Yoooz
    • By Yoooz 17th Apr 18, 12:37 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    Yoooz
    I will go with 2 then. Thanks.
    • Yoooz
    • By Yoooz 17th Apr 18, 12:48 PM
    • 19 Posts
    • 10 Thanks
    Yoooz
    It looks like they trying to get people to admit who was driving as you get another list to pick from at the next stage. I will go with 9 though.

    I will post the list, which could be useful for anyone appealing on their site.

    First you're met with a intro and then the list.

    ''Whilst there are no specific legal grounds which you believe make this notice invalid, nevertheless you believe that it was either unfair or unreasonable to issue the notice and would like the Company to cancel it. You will need to provide very good supporting evidence for this. Some possible reasons that this might be considered are given below, this is not an exhaustive list and you must provide supporting evidence to strengthen your appeal''.
    1. The vehicle was not parked where stated on the PCN/ECN
    2. I was still within the time paid for
    3. I did not overstay the free period allowed in the Car park
    4. My car parking ticket was clearly displayed
    5. My permit was clearly displayed
    6. The terms and conditions of the car park were not clearly signposted
    7. I was parked in an area in which I was free to park
    8. I complied with the signage at the car park
    9. Other
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