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  • FIRST POST
    • Kernel Sanders
    • By Kernel Sanders 13th Apr 18, 8:25 PM
    • 3,352Posts
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    Kernel Sanders
    Front door appears to have no lintel
    • #1
    • 13th Apr 18, 8:25 PM
    Front door appears to have no lintel 13th Apr 18 at 8:25 PM

    Cavity walls are supposed to have a metal tray on which the bricks sit, but I can see no trace of it here.
    I need to replace the door and frame but it appears to be supporting the bricks and roof tiles, which weigh 6 kilograms each...
    Last edited by Kernel Sanders; 13-04-2018 at 9:03 PM.
Page 1
    • martinthebandit
    • By martinthebandit 13th Apr 18, 8:32 PM
    • 3,674 Posts
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    martinthebandit
    • #2
    • 13th Apr 18, 8:32 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Apr 18, 8:32 PM
    How old and what type of construction is the house?

    If you don't find joy in the snow,
    remember you'll have less joy in your life


    ...but still have the same amount of snow!
    • Kernel Sanders
    • By Kernel Sanders 13th Apr 18, 8:41 PM
    • 3,352 Posts
    • 1,365 Thanks
    Kernel Sanders
    • #3
    • 13th Apr 18, 8:41 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Apr 18, 8:41 PM
    How old and what type of construction is the house?
    Originally posted by martinthebandit
    1977, constructed on slab. Double trussed main roof. Breeze block inner leaf, metal ties.
    Last edited by Kernel Sanders; 13-04-2018 at 8:50 PM.
    • EachPenny
    • By EachPenny 13th Apr 18, 10:20 PM
    • 8,845 Posts
    • 24,183 Thanks
    EachPenny
    • #4
    • 13th Apr 18, 10:20 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Apr 18, 10:20 PM
    It's not unknown for the lintel to be placed on top of the course of bricks immediately above the door/window - that way the lintel is hidden (and protected) whereas if it were directly on top of the door it would be exposed. The weight of one course of bricks is negligible and easily supported by the door frame.

    Alternatively the outer leaf part of a steel lintel might be less than the full width of a brick, so it could be there, but just hidden by the pointing.

    The third option is that as there are only about 9 courses of brick above the door the builder felt that applying the 45 degree rule meant no lintel was required... it could be interesting to test the theory.

    I would remove the door frame by first sawing out a section about 4 inches long in the centre of the top of the frame. The rest of the frame will continue to provide some support to the brickwork above. The 4 inch gap will then allow you to inspect what is going on above the frame - whether there is a cavity, and if you can locate anything lintel-like (which might be visible looking up through the cavity).
    "In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"
    • Ruski
    • By Ruski 13th Apr 18, 10:28 PM
    • 1,584 Posts
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    Ruski
    • #5
    • 13th Apr 18, 10:28 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Apr 18, 10:28 PM
    Could also be cast insitu concrete

    Any access into the small roofspace?

    Russ
    Perfection takes time: don't expect miracles in a day
    • spannerzone
    • By spannerzone 13th Apr 18, 10:34 PM
    • 1,497 Posts
    • 816 Thanks
    spannerzone
    • #6
    • 13th Apr 18, 10:34 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Apr 18, 10:34 PM
    My back door is much the same but about 60 years older and hasn't budged even when the door and frame replaced. I asked the same question over at DIYnot forums and the consensus was not to worry.

    Never trust information given by strangers on internet forums
    • martinthebandit
    • By martinthebandit 14th Apr 18, 7:53 AM
    • 3,674 Posts
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    martinthebandit
    • #7
    • 14th Apr 18, 7:53 AM
    • #7
    • 14th Apr 18, 7:53 AM
    My back door is much the same but about 60 years older and hasn't budged even when the door and frame replaced. I asked the same question over at DIYnot forums and the consensus was not to worry.
    Originally posted by spannerzone

    From the info the OP has given I would happily agree with that consensus

    If you don't find joy in the snow,
    remember you'll have less joy in your life


    ...but still have the same amount of snow!
    • shaun from Africa
    • By shaun from Africa 14th Apr 18, 11:21 AM
    • 10,476 Posts
    • 11,818 Thanks
    shaun from Africa
    • #8
    • 14th Apr 18, 11:21 AM
    • #8
    • 14th Apr 18, 11:21 AM
    I need to replace the door and frame but it appears to be supporting the bricks and roof tiles, which weigh 6 kilograms each
    Originally posted by Kernel Sanders
    When you get someone in to give a quote, make sure that they are fully aware of your concerns about the possible lack of a lintel and ensure that this is put in writing.

    It's unlikely to happen but the last thing you want is for brick slippage when the old frame is removed and the company concerned refusing liability.
    • Kernel Sanders
    • By Kernel Sanders 14th Apr 18, 6:42 PM
    • 3,352 Posts
    • 1,365 Thanks
    Kernel Sanders
    • #9
    • 14th Apr 18, 6:42 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Apr 18, 6:42 PM
    Could also be cast insitu concrete

    Any access into the small roofspace?

    Russ
    Originally posted by Ruski
    When I had solar Panels installed the fitters reported that every tile they lifted wasn't nailed down (22.5 pitch) so pushing up the tiles should be possible. However, I'm not sure if the sarking could be moved far enough without tearing because it's fairly brittle in the loft.
    Would a strong magnet reveal anything?
    • EssexExile
    • By EssexExile 14th Apr 18, 8:27 PM
    • 3,288 Posts
    • 2,341 Thanks
    EssexExile
    Surely the weight of the tiles is taken by the rafters resting on wall plates top & bottom, the only weight on the door frame is a few bricks. Are you doing the door yourself or having someone to do it? Either way I wouldn't expect anything to move in the short time there is no support, if it does it's not the end of the world.
    Tall, dark & handsome. Well two out of three ain't bad.
    • Kernel Sanders
    • By Kernel Sanders 14th Apr 18, 8:57 PM
    • 3,352 Posts
    • 1,365 Thanks
    Kernel Sanders
    Surely the weight of the tiles is taken by the rafters resting on wall plates top & bottom, the only weight on the door frame is a few bricks. Are you doing the door yourself or having someone to do it? Either way I wouldn't expect anything to move in the short time there is no support, if it does it's not the end of the world.
    Originally posted by EssexExile
    I thought there would be a rafter resting on the brickwork, although there's no reason to suppose it's not also resting on the wall plate like the other ones.
    I'll only D-I-M if it's got a lintel (I know you can hire Acros).
    Last edited by Kernel Sanders; 15-04-2018 at 4:21 PM.
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