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    • Michael74
    • By Michael74 13th Apr 18, 8:08 PM
    • 21Posts
    • 1Thanks
    Michael74
    Exchange Only line
    • #1
    • 13th Apr 18, 8:08 PM
    Exchange Only line 13th Apr 18 at 8:08 PM
    Hi. I have an EO line (Exchange Only line) which basically means my phone line goes straight from the house to the exchange, no cabinets. This means there is nowhere to put a fibre cabinet, thus no super fast fibre unless I want to buy from Virgin. (paying £10 per month more that the current cheapest fiber offer)

    According to BT Openreach website its says "my property is either currently, or planned to be, covered through private sector providers by the end of 2019"

    However according to an Email I recived from Openreach this week they said "We're working hard on various solutions to exchange only lines, but I'm afraid we can't give any completion dates just yet as we're still in the very early stages."

    I emailed Connecting Devon and Somerset (a govt funded agency) who contacted Openreach again on my behalf who received this response " unfortunately the reply from Openreach is somewhat conflicting to what’s visible on their website; today they’ve confirmed that they do not have any current plans to upgrade the EO lines on your street."

    In Scotland they are merrily converting EO lines but in England its tough cookies....

    Does anyone else having this issue or managed to resolve it?
Page 1
    • rusty_f
    • By rusty_f 13th Apr 18, 8:27 PM
    • 108 Posts
    • 49 Thanks
    rusty_f
    • #2
    • 13th Apr 18, 8:27 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Apr 18, 8:27 PM
    My last house had an exchange only line and my only option was Virgin. It was much better than the sub-2MB/sec speed I got via ADSL but was frustrating as I couldn't jump ship. It didn't stop me haggling with Virgin every price rise though - they didn't know I couldn't get FTTC!

    There is nothing you can do, it has to be commercially viable. If you already have a fibre provider (Virgin), then its probably less likely they'll find a solution to it in your area - unless there is a large demand from everyone in your area.
    • Michael74
    • By Michael74 13th Apr 18, 8:46 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Michael74
    • #3
    • 13th Apr 18, 8:46 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Apr 18, 8:46 PM
    Indeed Connecting Devon and Somerset wondered if its down to it being commercially viable or not. But there are plenty of people who have access to cable and superfast. In Scotland EO lines are being converted with no great issues. I think its down to the Scottish Govt ensuring that everyone gets good value for money rather than the "English" govt just handing the money out shouting look we are getting everyone faster BB its all abit rubbish really lol
    • rusty_f
    • By rusty_f 13th Apr 18, 8:58 PM
    • 108 Posts
    • 49 Thanks
    rusty_f
    • #4
    • 13th Apr 18, 8:58 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Apr 18, 8:58 PM
    Are the exchange only lines in Scotland you are referring to in areas where Virgin are available? That's the key here - there are rules about state funding and building over an existing provider's fibre network. If fibre is available (most likely via Virgin or an alt-net), then BT won't be able to use public funds for it. They'd need to invest using their own money, assuming they could guarantee a return on that investment.

    I live in England and my situation was down to the fact I had an alternative - and I was living in London!
    • AndyPK
    • By AndyPK 13th Apr 18, 9:08 PM
    • 3,053 Posts
    • 867 Thanks
    AndyPK
    • #5
    • 13th Apr 18, 9:08 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Apr 18, 9:08 PM
    What speed do you get?

    You can get reasonable deals with virgin if you play hard ball.

    I pay £25 for 50mb and phone.
    • Michael74
    • By Michael74 13th Apr 18, 9:16 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Michael74
    • #6
    • 13th Apr 18, 9:16 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Apr 18, 9:16 PM
    A good point well made, so I checked using an online overlay map comparing available speeds and providers and I don't see much difference in VMs coverage and Openreach superfast coverage in England than Scotland. I remain unconvinced about the rural argument, bearing in mind I live in Devon and fully understand that premise. Look how long it took them to unbundle the Local Loop, Openreach won't do anything unless they are forced to do so.
    • Michael74
    • By Michael74 13th Apr 18, 9:31 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Michael74
    • #7
    • 13th Apr 18, 9:31 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Apr 18, 9:31 PM
    My average is 18.2 Mbps. Once upon a time that did me, but I now have a two children who are old enough to use the internet and things are sloooooowwwwiiiiiinnnngggg dooooooowwwwwwnnnnn lol

    I pay EE £20.50pm for BB and phone (weekend calls)
    • tberry6686
    • By tberry6686 13th Apr 18, 9:58 PM
    • 1,002 Posts
    • 964 Thanks
    tberry6686
    • #8
    • 13th Apr 18, 9:58 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Apr 18, 9:58 PM
    don't see much difference in VMs coverage and Openreach superfast coverage in England than Scotland
    This is where Virgin are using BT lines in Scotland. If you look for Virgins own network in Scotland it is tiny. It only covers Glasgow, Edinburgh and Dundee.

    That is the reason EO lines are being sorted in Scotland - there are no alternatives through most of the country
    • rusty_f
    • By rusty_f 13th Apr 18, 10:02 PM
    • 108 Posts
    • 49 Thanks
    rusty_f
    • #9
    • 13th Apr 18, 10:02 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Apr 18, 10:02 PM
    This is where Virgin are using BT lines in Scotland.
    Originally posted by tberry6686
    Virgin stopped using Openreach for ADSL broadband years ago. They only sell on their own network now.
    • Owain Moneysaver
    • By Owain Moneysaver 13th Apr 18, 10:49 PM
    • 8,392 Posts
    • 9,401 Thanks
    Owain Moneysaver
    My average is 18.2 Mbps. Once upon a time that did me, but I now have a two children who are old enough to use the internet and things are sloooooowwwwiiiiiinnnngggg dooooooowwwwwwnnnnn lol
    Originally posted by Michael74
    Not a complete fix, of course, but with a suitable router you can give the children a separate virtual network and restrict their bandwidth so they don't hog it all.
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
    • Michael74
    • By Michael74 13th Apr 18, 10:51 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Michael74
    Are the exchange only lines in Scotland you are referring to in areas where Virgin are available? That's the key here - there are rules about state funding and building over an existing provider's fibre network. If fibre is available (most likely via Virgin or an alt-net), then BT won't be able to use public funds for it. They'd need to invest using their own money, assuming they could guarantee a return on that investment.

    I live in England and my situation was down to the fact I had an alternative - and I was living in London!
    Originally posted by rusty_f
    Also EO lines are relatively short, the more rural you are the more cabinets there are between you and the exchange, and cabinets mean fibre BB. This is why you were only on an EO line in London, they are mainly found in suburbs, as I said before I think the rural bit is a Red Herring, its down to Openreach in England just being allowed to do as they please.

    The long and short of it is EO line require more work to convert and Openreach don't want to spend the money as we are a smaller customer base. Yes thats capitlism/consumerism, but I don't have to take it lying down lol
    • tberry6686
    • By tberry6686 13th Apr 18, 10:57 PM
    • 1,002 Posts
    • 964 Thanks
    tberry6686
    Virgin stopped using Openreach for ADSL broadband years ago. They only sell on their own network now.
    Originally posted by rusty_f
    Not in Scotland they don't. I can get Virgin broadband on my line at home, the nearest bit of virgin network is over 100 miles away
    • rusty_f
    • By rusty_f 13th Apr 18, 11:01 PM
    • 108 Posts
    • 49 Thanks
    rusty_f
    Also EO lines are relatively short, the more rural you are the more cabinets there are between you and the exchange, and cabinets mean fibre BB. This is why you were only on an EO line in London, they are mainly found in suburbs, as I said before I think the rural bit is a Red Herring, its down to Openreach in England just being allowed to do as they please.

    The long and short of it is EO line require more work to convert and Openreach don't want to spend the money as we are a smaller customer base. Yes thats capitlism/consumerism, but I don't have to take it lying down lol
    Originally posted by Michael74
    The exchange only line I was on in London was over 4km in length. I was an exception, I assume for historical reasons, but it was a very long line, and very poor speeds. Many EO lines I saw were a lot shorter because the properties were very close to the exchange - I had sub-2Mb/sec download speeds. As the crow flies, the distance between my property and the exchange was around 2km but it took a circuitous route to where I lived.

    I agree that it costs a lot of money to reconfigure the network to allow FTTC, and given I was served by Virgin there was no reason for Openreach to do that where I lived. We were a small sub-set of customers in an exchange which covered 17k+ premises, so it didn't really matter to them.
    • Michael74
    • By Michael74 14th Apr 18, 11:05 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Michael74
    So after a little bit of digging, my exchange has 13 cabinets, 4 are FTTC rest are not and 9 sets of EO routes all with god knows how many subscribers on the ends.... Put it another way, thats 4 out of 22 postcodes with access to FTTC That's a lot of people without FTTC. But due to Virgin being in the area its not a priority... ho hum
    • Gloomendoom
    • By Gloomendoom 15th Apr 18, 12:15 AM
    • 14,575 Posts
    • 19,635 Thanks
    Gloomendoom
    We live in rural England and were connected direct to the exchange. ADSL speeds were pretty good at 18 Mbps. Since the end of last year the connection has been upgraded and we now have fibre at around 48 Mbps.

    No Virgin around here.
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” - Mark Twain
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 15th Apr 18, 8:14 AM
    • 2,858 Posts
    • 3,686 Thanks
    unforeseen
    I am on an EO line and had to wait for the BBUK scheme via Connecting Cheshire to install a cab outside the exchange to enable me to get fibre. This was about 18 months after fibre was rolled out to the non EO lines
    • Roland Sausage
    • By Roland Sausage 15th Apr 18, 8:26 AM
    • 554 Posts
    • 407 Thanks
    Roland Sausage
    Not in Scotland they don't. I can get Virgin broadband on my line at home, the nearest bit of virgin network is over 100 miles away
    Originally posted by tberry6686
    Nonsense. They sold the ADSL service off to TalkTalk ages ago. There is no way you can get Virgin broadband if you are 100 miles away from any network.

    Also, Virgin have network in many more places than you mentioned. For example Perth, Glenrothes, Falkirk, Ayr to name a few.
    • iniltous
    • By iniltous 15th Apr 18, 8:51 AM
    • 1,634 Posts
    • 630 Thanks
    iniltous
    Also EO lines are relatively short, the more rural you are the more cabinets there are between you and the exchange, and cabinets mean fibre BB. This is why you were only on an EO line in London, they are mainly found in suburbs, as I said before I think the rural bit is a Red Herring, its down to Openreach in England just being allowed to do as they please.

    The long and short of it is EO line require more work to convert and Openreach don't want to spend the money as we are a smaller customer base. Yes thats capitlism/consumerism, but I don't have to take it lying down lol
    Originally posted by Michael74
    Not all EO lines are close to the exchange , some can be miles away from their host exchange , most people have a line that is served by a PCP (cabinet) and only have one PCP in their copper pairs route back to the exchange , even those on the longest lines that are on the boundary between two exchange areas.
    Your post suggests cabs are chained together and a 'line' could pass through several cabs to the exchange and connect to FTTP at any of these cabs along the way, this simply isn't the case.
    Even if you were on a line that went through a cab, if it's a rural area it's entirely possible that the 'line' from the cabinet to the property was a significant distance , and in those cases FTTC / VDSL may not improve the speed , and FTTP would probably be considered in those locations.
    In your particular case, I would think you are the lowest priority , you have fast ADSL (18Mb/s faster than some on FTTC ) and have access to NGA superfast broadband from a non Openreach supplier, you just don't want to use them....
    Last edited by iniltous; 15-04-2018 at 8:59 AM.
    • Michael74
    • By Michael74 15th Apr 18, 12:34 PM
    • 21 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Michael74
    Not all EO lines are close to the exchange , some can be miles away from their host exchange , most people have a line that is served by a PCP (cabinet) and only have one PCP in their copper pairs route back to the exchange , even those on the longest lines that are on the boundary between two exchange areas.
    Your post suggests cabs are chained together and a 'line' could pass through several cabs to the exchange and connect to FTTP at any of these cabs along the way, this simply isn't the case.
    Even if you were on a line that went through a cab, if it's a rural area it's entirely possible that the 'line' from the cabinet to the property was a significant distance , and in those cases FTTC / VDSL may not improve the speed , and FTTP would probably be considered in those locations.
    In your particular case, I would think you are the lowest priority , you have fast ADSL (18Mb/s faster than some on FTTC ) and have access to NGA superfast broadband from a non Openreach supplier, you just don't want to use them....
    Originally posted by iniltous
    Thank you for your very technical reply, I don't really understand why you should choose to finish the post in such a way, have I offended you somehow? Of course I don't want to pay Virgin Media over £10 pm more than FTTC competitors, would you happily pay more for a service than others? I started this thread knowing that Openreach have no plans to offer FTTC in my area, and I have acknowledged that Virgin are my only other option I was simply wanting to discover if others have been in the same position and what solutions they may have had. For instance an excellent idea of restricting bandwidth on the router. That is after all what a consumer forum is all about isn't it. If you feel that this tread or any of my posts are not in the spirit of this forum then I invite you to report this tread for moderation, or just not reply. I wish you a good day.
    Last edited by Michael74; 15-04-2018 at 12:37 PM. Reason: ham fisted typing
    • iniltous
    • By iniltous 15th Apr 18, 1:31 PM
    • 1,634 Posts
    • 630 Thanks
    iniltous
    Thank you for your very technical reply, I don't really understand why you should choose to finish the post in such a way, have I offended you somehow? Of course I don't want to pay Virgin Media over £10 pm more than FTTC competitors, would you happily pay more for a service than others? I started this thread knowing that Openreach have no plans to offer FTTC in my area, and I have acknowledged that Virgin are my only other option I was simply wanting to discover if others have been in the same position and what solutions they may have had. For instance an excellent idea of restricting bandwidth on the router. That is after all what a consumer forum is all about isn't it. If you feel that this tread or any of my posts are not in the spirit of this forum then I invite you to report this tread for moderation, or just not reply. I wish you a good day.
    Originally posted by Michael74
    No offence was intended , simply that OR and the parent group BT are commercial businesses and aim there resources (when it's a commercial decision) , on where they will get a decent return, your area's already got VM access , so wouldn't be a high priority as the return would be poor , and considerably more work would be required to convert an E/O area to one suitable for FTTC, making the cost/benefit even worse.
    As fas as price is concerned, FTTP could be the solution for your area should it be considered for an upgrade from ADSL by OR , only a few ISP's offer service over FTTP, and of those that do, BT are the 'value' provider, they don't tend to offer discounts over the 'list price, so FTTP would be no cheaper than VM.

    Those ISP's considered budget providers like TT don't offer service over FTTP so the chances are you wouldn't get a fibre and line bundle for £20-25.
    It's difficult to average out phone and FTTP prices, with cash backs , Visa cards etc, but it's probably £25-£30 ( after introductory offers etc) and that's not that different to VM's 50Mb bundle price
    Last edited by iniltous; 15-04-2018 at 1:36 PM.
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