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  • FIRST POST
    • Adamc
    • By Adamc 13th Apr 18, 7:17 PM
    • 101Posts
    • 5Thanks
    Adamc
    Landlord wants me out by the 2nd. Paid to 11th - do I have any rights?
    • #1
    • 13th Apr 18, 7:17 PM
    Landlord wants me out by the 2nd. Paid to 11th - do I have any rights? 13th Apr 18 at 7:17 PM
    Hi all

    My landlord has given me 2 months notice as per our agreement.

    I pay monthly rent of £800 11th - 11th of each month.

    If I vacate on the 2nd as he has asked - can I get a reimbursement for the week or so I will have paid for but not stayed?

    They have said that I cannot stay to the 11th as they wish to paint the walls before their son moves in.

    I should add that when I asked about staying longer, reimbursement or my original £600 deposit, they became somewhat hostile.

    Thanks in advance.
Page 1
    • JennyP
    • By JennyP 13th Apr 18, 7:21 PM
    • 943 Posts
    • 721 Thanks
    JennyP
    • #2
    • 13th Apr 18, 7:21 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Apr 18, 7:21 PM
    In my tenancy agreements, it always says that notice has to be given by either party so that if your rental period starts on the 11th of the month, you would move out on the 10th. Have you checked to see what yours says?
    He can't expect you to pay rent for a week when he isn't letting you stay in the property.
    Presumably your deposit is in the protected scheme?
    • runninglea
    • By runninglea 13th Apr 18, 7:22 PM
    • 869 Posts
    • 1,292 Thanks
    runninglea
    • #3
    • 13th Apr 18, 7:22 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Apr 18, 7:22 PM
    What date did they give you two months notice?

    If you've paid till 11th then that is when you leave.

    Is your deposit held in a protected scheme, they cannot keep it as it will be in your name
    Last edited by runninglea; 13-04-2018 at 7:24 PM. Reason: duplication
    Year 2018 (8,500/£17000mortgage repayment)Overall mortgage (64,600/165568) (39
    .0%) (38/100) payments made. Total paid 2018 year £8,500

    Total paid 2017 year £15,300Total paid 2018 year £8,500
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 13th Apr 18, 7:24 PM
    • 12,676 Posts
    • 18,086 Thanks
    Pixie5740
    • #4
    • 13th Apr 18, 7:24 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Apr 18, 7:24 PM
    Hi all

    My landlord has given me 2 months notice as per our agreement.

    I pay monthly rent of £800 11th - 11th of each month.

    If I vacate on the 2nd as he has asked - can I get a reimbursement for the week or so I will have paid for but not stayed?

    They have said that I cannot stay to the 11th as they wish to paint the walls before their son moves in.

    I should add that when I asked about staying longer, reimbursement or my original £600 deposit, they became somewhat hostile.

    Thanks in advance.
    Originally posted by Adamc
    11th to 11th is 1 month + 1 day

    The landlord's notice is just notice that they might go to court seeking a possession order not that you have to move out. If the landlord wants you to move out sooner then you are free to negotiate and set your terms.

    For more information about how and when an AST can be ended please read G_M's Guide to Ending/Renewing an AST.
    Last edited by Pixie5740; 13-04-2018 at 7:28 PM.
    • Annie35
    • By Annie35 13th Apr 18, 7:29 PM
    • 226 Posts
    • 188 Thanks
    Annie35
    • #5
    • 13th Apr 18, 7:29 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Apr 18, 7:29 PM
    Well your contracted to the 11th (though wouldn't it actually be 11-TENTH of each month? But if you've all originally agreed 11th doesn't much matter)

    But if have a good relationship with landlord & 2nd works for you sure you can all agree 2nd.

    If they're difficult but 2nd still works for you, sure you can agree but I'd make sure you get your reinbursement IN ADVANCE, as once you're out they have no incentive to refund.
    • Adamc
    • By Adamc 13th Apr 18, 7:43 PM
    • 101 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Adamc
    • #6
    • 13th Apr 18, 7:43 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Apr 18, 7:43 PM
    What date did they give you two months notice?

    If you've paid till 11th then that is when you leave.

    Is your deposit held in a protected scheme, they cannot keep it as it will be in your name
    Originally posted by runninglea
    They dropped a handwritten letter off on the 2nd of last month.

    Yes - it's a protected scheme. We told them we had hung some pictures in the hall without permission and they basically said that our deposit is most likely gone. They are very aggrieved and hostile that we are not moving out sooner. I'm slightly confused, partly annoyed, and very worried. I have something lined up (a new place) but the whole ordeal is really getting me down.
    • Slithery
    • By Slithery 13th Apr 18, 7:49 PM
    • 792 Posts
    • 1,223 Thanks
    Slithery
    • #7
    • 13th Apr 18, 7:49 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Apr 18, 7:49 PM
    That handwritten letter may well not be valid notice, please read the link in post #4 thoroughly.
    • Annie35
    • By Annie35 13th Apr 18, 7:51 PM
    • 226 Posts
    • 188 Thanks
    Annie35
    • #8
    • 13th Apr 18, 7:51 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Apr 18, 7:51 PM
    They dropped a handwritten letter off on the 2nd of last month.

    Yes - it's a protected scheme. We told them we had hung some pictures in the hall without permission and they basically said that our deposit is most likely gone. They are very aggrieved and hostile that we are not moving out sooner. I'm slightly confused, partly annoyed, and very worried. I have something lined up (a new place) but the whole ordeal is really getting me down.
    Originally posted by Adamc
    Their handwritten notice isn't actually notice, so you don't even have to leave.. but if youve somewhere better to be it doesn't matter, carry on with moving out.

    On the day you move out ask for your deposit if they say anything but 'here you go' claim it from the deposit protection scheme. It'll take a few weeks but the dps are tenant friendly, it's your money & ll's need to prove claims.
    • runninglea
    • By runninglea 13th Apr 18, 7:53 PM
    • 869 Posts
    • 1,292 Thanks
    runninglea
    • #9
    • 13th Apr 18, 7:53 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Apr 18, 7:53 PM
    They cannot keep all the deposit for a few nails in the wall.

    You have to sign in and request deposit back and it will come back to you. The landlord will have to say that it is ok to return the deposit and if they don't agree then that's the time to be awkward.

    Sometimes if the situation is getting you down then its best to just leave - when have you a new property to move into.

    Say that you have paid them till 11th and want that money back now
    Year 2018 (8,500/£17000mortgage repayment)Overall mortgage (64,600/165568) (39
    .0%) (38/100) payments made. Total paid 2018 year £8,500

    Total paid 2017 year £15,300Total paid 2018 year £8,500
    • anselld
    • By anselld 13th Apr 18, 7:59 PM
    • 5,838 Posts
    • 5,557 Thanks
    anselld
    They dropped a handwritten letter off on the 2nd of last month.

    Yes - it's a protected scheme. We told them we had hung some pictures in the hall without permission and they basically said that our deposit is most likely gone. They are very aggrieved and hostile that we are not moving out sooner. I'm slightly confused, partly annoyed, and very worried. I have something lined up (a new place) but the whole ordeal is really getting me down.
    Originally posted by Adamc
    Do not accept this BS that the deposit is gone. The deposit scheme exists to ensure that any damage deductions are fair and you will not lose much for a few unauthorised picture hooks.

    Regarding the notice. It sounds like it is not valid as it is not in the prescribed s21 format. However, even if it were valid it is simply a notice of the Landlord's intent to seek possession. Only a Court can actually end the tenancy and you are quite within your rights to wait until the L has gained Court order.

    If you agree to leave on the 2nd then yes, you are entitled to refund of any rental period you have payed for but which is not available to you.
    • shirlgirl2004
    • By shirlgirl2004 13th Apr 18, 8:49 PM
    • 2,834 Posts
    • 4,514 Thanks
    shirlgirl2004
    If I were you I'd just stay until the 10th as per what you've paid for that way the landlord can only give the truth to any future landlord which is you vacated as per your tenancy agreement. Being nasty is just extra stress on you just be firm but fair. You don't need a landlord like that.
    • G_M
    • By G_M 13th Apr 18, 9:36 PM
    • 44,946 Posts
    • 53,563 Thanks
    G_M
    There is so little information it is impossible to advise sensibly:

    1) Is this a tenancy or are you a lodger?
    2) Is this England? Wales? Scotland?
    3) do you pay rent monthly?
    4) are you in a fixed term contract? What are the start and end dates?
    5) or is your contract periodic? Does each period run from 11th to 10th of each month?
    6) what does your tenancy agreement say aboutt notice? Please quote exactly.
    7) Have you received a S21 Notice? What date was it served? what is the expiry date?

    Have you read:

    * Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?
    • Adamc
    • By Adamc 13th Apr 18, 10:34 PM
    • 101 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Adamc
    There is so little information it is impossible to advise sensibly:

    1) Is this a tenancy or are you a lodger? Tenancy
    2) Is this England? Wales? Scotland? England
    3) do you pay rent monthly? Yes
    4) are you in a fixed term contract? What are the start and end dates? No. I have been here for 3 years prior.
    5) or is your contract periodic? Does each period run from 11th to 10th of each month? Yes - to my knowledge. My initial payment was requested on the 8th and payed then before I moved in on the 11th.
    6) what does your tenancy agreement say aboutt notice? Please quote exactly. 2 months for both parties - will quote tomorrow if needed?
    7) Have you received a S21 Notice? What date was it served? what is the expiry date? No S21 - a handwritten letter. The property is managed by a company but it was the landlord who came with a handwritten letter.


    * Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?
    Originally posted by G_M
    Have answered above. Thanks!
    • franklee
    • By franklee 14th Apr 18, 3:01 AM
    • 3,724 Posts
    • 4,011 Thanks
    franklee
    No one has served valid notice. You do not have the right to leave and your landlord does not have the right to ask you to leave.

    If you leave without having served valid notice then you will still be liable for rent unless you can prove the landlord has taken the property back and is using it.

    If the landlord makes you leave without agreement he risks you claiming illegal eviction.

    If you just leave you are not entitled to a rent refund.

    So the tenancy should continue until it's ended by service of valid notice etc. OR you both get together and agree a mutual surrender of the tenancy. As part of the negotiation you mutually agree leaving date, rent owed or to be refunded, deposit return etc. You should get this all in writing to protect both sides.

    Failure to do this will leave a muddle with opportunity for claims and arguments flying both ways.
    • deannatrois
    • By deannatrois 14th Apr 18, 5:03 AM
    • 5,534 Posts
    • 7,772 Thanks
    deannatrois
    So it looks like the LL doesn't know what they are doing. Its unlikely the letter will do as a S21 (although you could check what should be included). But that was fairly predictable given they are expecting you to move out before the end of the last month of your tenancy period.

    I'd advise you to get advice from Shelter.

    But it might avoid a scene if you let the LL know you don't have to move out until at least 10th of the second month unless you get a refund of rent paid (if you can move out sooner). You could also try and negotiate getting your deposit back to encourage you to move out earlier than you have to so he can make the property nice for his wonderful son. You could in fact stay a lot longer as he hasn't even served a S21.
    Last edited by deannatrois; 14-04-2018 at 5:10 AM.
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 14th Apr 18, 6:44 AM
    • 12,676 Posts
    • 18,086 Thanks
    Pixie5740
    Have answered above. Thanks!
    Originally posted by Adamc
    Have you? I assumed you were in England or Wales, that you have an Assured Shorthand Tenancy, and therefore that you are a tenant and not an excluded occupier aka a lodger. That's the basis for my advice.

    If my assumptions are correct and your landlord needs/wants you to move out 2nd (June?) then the only way that can legally happen is by negotiating an early surrender with you. Point this out to your landlord and set your terms i.e. paying a pro rata amount of rent until the 2nd and the return of your full deposit. Whatever terms you agree get them in WRITING. Your landlord is having a giraffe if (s)he thinks your entire deposit can be retained for a couple of picture hook holes in the wall.

    Please read another of G_M's excellent guides, this time the Guide to Deposits: payment, protection and return.
    • Adamc
    • By Adamc 14th Apr 18, 7:54 AM
    • 101 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    Adamc
    So it looks like the LL doesn't know what they are doing. Its unlikely the letter will do as a S21 (although you could check what should be included). But that was fairly predictable given they are expecting you to move out before the end of the last month of your tenancy period.

    I'd advise you to get advice from Shelter.

    But it might avoid a scene if you let the LL know you don't have to move out until at least 10th of the second month unless you get a refund of rent paid (if you can move out sooner). You could also try and negotiate getting your deposit back to encourage you to move out earlier than you have to so he can make the property nice for his wonderful son. You could in fact stay a lot longer as he hasn't even served a S21.
    Originally posted by deannatrois
    So I should arrange an inspection regarding the deposit as soon as possible?
    • dannim12345
    • By dannim12345 14th Apr 18, 9:12 AM
    • 247 Posts
    • 111 Thanks
    dannim12345
    As you have a new place arranged, stay until the date that suites you in terms of that (11th if thatís the case). If they get hostile call the police - donít be scared into moving out sooner. Or agree compensation.

    In terms of the deposit, they can say what they want. Collect evidence (lots of photos) and dispute it with the scheme.
    • deannatrois
    • By deannatrois 14th Apr 18, 9:42 AM
    • 5,534 Posts
    • 7,772 Thanks
    deannatrois
    10th, the 11th will take the OP into the next rental period.
    • Naf
    • By Naf 14th Apr 18, 10:35 AM
    • 3,038 Posts
    • 2,305 Thanks
    Naf
    No one has served valid notice. You do not have the right to leave and your landlord does not have the right to ask you to leave.

    If you leave without having served valid notice then you will still be liable for rent unless you can prove the landlord has taken the property back and is using it.

    If the landlord makes you leave without agreement he risks you claiming illegal eviction.

    If you just leave you are not entitled to a rent refund.

    So the tenancy should continue until it's ended by service of valid notice etc. OR you both get together and agree a mutual surrender of the tenancy. As part of the negotiation you mutually agree leaving date, rent owed or to be refunded, deposit return etc. You should get this all in writing to protect both sides.

    Failure to do this will leave a muddle with opportunity for claims and arguments flying both ways.
    Originally posted by franklee
    I would be writing to my LL politely pointing this out, and very nicely asking to have the necessary discussion to avoid the potential for future claims. Hoping they're bright enough to recognised the veiled threat...
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
    - Mark Twain
    Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon: no matter how good you are at chess, its just going to knock over the pieces and strut around like its victorious.
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