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  • FIRST POST
    • Grindstone
    • By Grindstone 13th Apr 18, 5:14 PM
    • 4Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Grindstone
    PIP enough points but no award!
    • #1
    • 13th Apr 18, 5:14 PM
    PIP enough points but no award! 13th Apr 18 at 5:14 PM
    Hello everyone
    My Husband (aged 52) suffered from a stroke in December 2017. He was advised by the CAB team in the hospital to put in a claim for PIP when he could, they helped him with his form and an assessor came to the house in March.
    He has today received his award notice and was given 8 points for daily living and 22 points for mobility. His award is nil as they have said he might improve before the 9 months timescale.
    He has improved since having the stroke and his consultant says the most improvements happen in the first 3 month so don't know how the DWP can have a crystal ball and think he would significantly improve from 22 points to 0 in 9 months. He seems to have now reached a plateau and was assessed as he is now and how I would realistically expect him to stay.
    I have never heard of this type of non award before, has anyone else come across this and what action did you take.
    Many thanks.
Page 1
    • Diamandis
    • By Diamandis 13th Apr 18, 5:49 PM
    • 280 Posts
    • 449 Thanks
    Diamandis
    • #2
    • 13th Apr 18, 5:49 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Apr 18, 5:49 PM
    You must have had the condition for at least 3 months and it must be expected to last a further 9 months. Your next stage would be to do a mandatory consideration. Is his consultant likely to provide a letter saying it will continue for at least another 9 months? This would be helpful to your case.
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 13th Apr 18, 6:05 PM
    • 2,637 Posts
    • 3,056 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    • #3
    • 13th Apr 18, 6:05 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Apr 18, 6:05 PM
    Is his consultant likely to provide a letter saying it will continue for at least another 9 months? This would be helpful to your case.
    Originally posted by Diamandis
    Exactly.
    You need medical evidence.

    But you might as will appeal it.
    https://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal

    The appeal to a tribunal will take (around) 4/5 months or so. By which time it will become fairly obvious if the DWP are correct or not. You can always withdraw the appeal at any point.

    The CAB may be able to help with the appeal.

    Here is a template for the MR:
    https://www.leicester.gov.uk/media/178163/mandatory-reconsideration-request.pdf
    • Danday
    • By Danday 13th Apr 18, 8:10 PM
    • 412 Posts
    • 69 Thanks
    Danday
    • #4
    • 13th Apr 18, 8:10 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Apr 18, 8:10 PM
    Hello everyone
    My Husband (aged 52) suffered from a stroke in December 2017. He was advised by the CAB team in the hospital to put in a claim for PIP when he could, they helped him with his form and an assessor came to the house in March.
    He has today received his award notice and was given 8 points for daily living and 22 points for mobility. His award is nil as they have said he might improve before the 9 months timescale.
    He has improved since having the stroke and his consultant says the most improvements happen in the first 3 month so don't know how the DWP can have a crystal ball and think he would significantly improve from 22 points to 0 in 9 months. He seems to have now reached a plateau and was assessed as he is now and how I would realistically expect him to stay.
    I have never heard of this type of non award before, has anyone else come across this and what action did you take.
    Many thanks.
    Originally posted by Grindstone
    He has to show on the balance of probabilities that his condition would remain stable as it is now.in December 2018
    • Grindstone
    • By Grindstone 14th Apr 18, 8:50 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Grindstone
    • #5
    • 14th Apr 18, 8:50 AM
    • #5
    • 14th Apr 18, 8:50 AM
    Thank you for the replies. I have made an appointment to take him to see his GP next week to ask for a letter of support. I have also phoned the DWP and told them he wants a mandatory reconsideration and I have contacted out local MP who says he will also write a letter of support. I will be also contacting Norman Lamb MP as he had a stroke a couple of weeks ago and is keen to help stroke victims.
    I just find it unfair, I thought they would award for say a year and the onus is on him if he suddenly makes a big recovery to tell them his condition has changed. He is unable to go out at the moment and has had no income since December 2017. I don't suppose for one moment we would get to December 2018 with him being the same and the DWP say ok you were right we will backdate to March! I can't find anyone else in this situation in the internet. All the stroke forums and information resources say the best recovery is around the first 3 months.
    Thanks again.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 14th Apr 18, 8:58 AM
    • 3,983 Posts
    • 3,804 Thanks
    poppy12345
    • #6
    • 14th Apr 18, 8:58 AM
    • #6
    • 14th Apr 18, 8:58 AM
    Thank you for the replies. I have made an appointment to take him to see his GP next week to ask for a letter of support. I have also phoned the DWP and told them he wants a mandatory reconsideration and I have contacted out local MP who says he will also write a letter of support. I will be also contacting Norman Lamb MP as he had a stroke a couple of weeks ago and is keen to help stroke victims.
    I just find it unfair, I thought they would award for say a year and the onus is on him if he suddenly makes a big recovery to tell them his condition has changed. He is unable to go out at the moment and has had no income since December 2017. I don't suppose for one moment we would get to December 2018 with him being the same and the DWP say ok you were right we will backdate to March! I can't find anyone else in this situation in the internet. All the stroke forums and information resources say the best recovery is around the first 3 months.
    Thanks again.
    Originally posted by Grindstone
    It would be much better to put the request in writing, stating what you disagree with and why, rather than just q request over the phone.

    The criteria for PIP as you know is you must have had the condition for at least 3 months and expect it to last a further 9 months. As DWP think he could improve within that time, that's why there's no award. Unfortunately it's the rules.

    As for no money, did he work before the stroke? if so and he's paid enough National Insurance contributions in the previous 2 tax years then he maybe entitled to Contribution based ESA. If you work then he wouldn't be entitled to Income Related ESA.
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 14th Apr 18, 9:08 AM
    • 12,074 Posts
    • 13,917 Thanks
    pmlindyloo
    • #7
    • 14th Apr 18, 9:08 AM
    • #7
    • 14th Apr 18, 9:08 AM
    I find this some what unusual and am wondering if any medical evidence you sent inferred that a full recovery was expected within a certain time period.

    If there wasn't any and they did not contact any medical professional who might have said this then I agree that a MR is the first thing to do sending evidence which clearly sets out the predicted 'realistic' time scales.
    • Grindstone
    • By Grindstone 14th Apr 18, 9:47 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Grindstone
    • #8
    • 14th Apr 18, 9:47 AM
    • #8
    • 14th Apr 18, 9:47 AM
    The DWP said they had noted the MR but would I also send details by letter and I said I would along with Doctor and MP letter. They said I had 4 weeks from yesterday (although I have read on here 4 weeks from date of letter which was 6th). I will do as soon as possible.
    His stroke was quite bad, double vision, balance issues and swallowing/choking problems along with a weird extreme fatigue. He is quite confused at times, can't write his own phone number or remember if we have already had Easter. I do hope he improves but I realistically think that with a brain injury, having been shown his scans that he will never recover to how he was before. He didn't work before the stroke following an accident but did not get any ESA as I work (self employed) he helped me (unpaid) sometimes, but obviously not now.
    So I am in the position that I am not working as much because he can't help me and I am spending my time caring for him and I am earning very little.
    He is very down about all this and thinks he would be better off 'out of it'!
    Thank you
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 14th Apr 18, 10:10 AM
    • 2,637 Posts
    • 3,056 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    • #9
    • 14th Apr 18, 10:10 AM
    • #9
    • 14th Apr 18, 10:10 AM
    At this stage it would be helpful if the MP's letter requested that the MR is conducted thoroughly and as a matter of urgency.
    Medical evidence is helpful, also letters from yourself, family members, etc explaining the severity of the current symptoms 4 months on.
    The Stroke Association may be helpful:
    https://www.stroke.org.uk/webform/contact-us

    This is rather odd - go through the PIP form you submitted (and any evidence included) - is there anything (as pmlindyloo said) to indicate a quick recovery?
    If so, then try to get evidence to the contrary for the written MR.

    You will need to get this together asap. Having telephoned for an MR, you do not want the DWP making a quick negative MR decision before you have had time to submit written MR evidence.
    • Grindstone
    • By Grindstone 14th Apr 18, 11:11 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Grindstone
    Thank you again for the replies, the form was filled out by the CAB team at the hospital where he was a patient. To be honest we don't have much medical evidence other than a raft of appointment letters and a discharge letter. He had a lot of physiotherapy which we continue at home. He has various appointments for ophthalmologist and speech therapy so it's just an ongoing situation but no actual reports etc.
    I have not sent in any medical evidence stating a full recovery is imminent and don't know if anyone else was asked such as consultant or Physiotherapist. They have certainly just said to us, wait and see and hope for the best.
    It just seems strange that they even bothered to come out to see him from the DWP, went to all the trouble of awarding points then in true Bullseye tradition said 'look what you could have had'. They might have well have said you have had a stroke but you might get a lot better so come back in a year if you don't. In the meantime I have no idea how to manage ongoing and he is sliding further into a depression.
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 14th Apr 18, 11:42 AM
    • 12,074 Posts
    • 13,917 Thanks
    pmlindyloo
    Thank you again for the replies, the form was filled out by the CAB team at the hospital where he was a patient. To be honest we don't have much medical evidence other than a raft of appointment letters and a discharge letter. He had a lot of physiotherapy which we continue at home. He has various appointments for ophthalmologist and speech therapy so it's just an ongoing situation but no actual reports etc.
    I have not sent in any medical evidence stating a full recovery is imminent and don't know if anyone else was asked such as consultant or Physiotherapist. They have certainly just said to us, wait and see and hope for the best.
    It just seems strange that they even bothered to come out to see him from the DWP, went to all the trouble of awarding points then in true Bullseye tradition said 'look what you could have had'. They might have well have said you have had a stroke but you might get a lot better so come back in a year if you don't. In the meantime I have no idea how to manage ongoing and he is sliding further into a depression.
    Originally posted by Grindstone
    This makes a lot more sense now since you didn't send any medical evidence.

    Hopefully they will change their decision at MR once you have some medical evidence. if not then it will be an appeal to the tribunal.

    Since you have already received help from CAB could you get in touch with them again to follow this through? If you take this route then you could ask for an extension of time for the MR to get an appointment and collect your medical evidence.

    In the meantime if you are happy to share your personal information with us then we may be able to help with other benefit advice.

    So, any children? Hours working as self employed? Earnings from self employment? Savings/other income? Rented property?

    Of course if you are managing financially them you may not need this help.
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