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  • FIRST POST
    • amtrakuk
    • By amtrakuk 13th Apr 18, 4:30 PM
    • 620Posts
    • 209Thanks
    amtrakuk
    Should I convert to Economy 7?
    • #1
    • 13th Apr 18, 4:30 PM
    Should I convert to Economy 7? 13th Apr 18 at 4:30 PM
    It is the time of year I have turned my heating off.

    As I take daily meter readings my meter readings have gone from about 45-55 units a day with it on to about 15 units a day - that's the only change I have done so obviously the heating is 3/4 of my energy usage.

    I put the heating on roughly in November and try turning it off at the end of march.

    Once the heating is on it stays on (rads running on thermostats) and the house remains comfortable.

    I do not use gas.

    I am aware that the peek rate is more expensive and in the past I have said E7 is a trick but now I see how much I'm using for heating I'm wondering on this basis should I convert to Economy 7. My provider said they will happily change my meter free.

    There are tools on the net to see if I should keep economy 7 but there doesn't appear to be anything for someone considering E7 due to winter heating costs.

    Any advice would be welcome.
    Last edited by amtrakuk; 13-04-2018 at 4:33 PM. Reason: Typing error
Page 1
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 13th Apr 18, 4:38 PM
    • 5,589 Posts
    • 3,430 Thanks
    Hengus
    • #2
    • 13th Apr 18, 4:38 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Apr 18, 4:38 PM
    The 'exam question' is what sort of heating are you talking about? E7 tariffs are great for insomniacs and owners of storage heaters but of little benefit to those who want electric heating on during the day.
    • amtrakuk
    • By amtrakuk 13th Apr 18, 4:42 PM
    • 620 Posts
    • 209 Thanks
    amtrakuk
    • #3
    • 13th Apr 18, 4:42 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Apr 18, 4:42 PM
    Ballpark figures

    Total heating capacity = 107.1 Kw over 6 heaters (assuming all charging for the 7 hours total)

    That seems a lot more than the 40 Units the radiators are using. Does that sound right?
    • amtrakuk
    • By amtrakuk 13th Apr 18, 4:44 PM
    • 620 Posts
    • 209 Thanks
    amtrakuk
    • #4
    • 13th Apr 18, 4:44 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Apr 18, 4:44 PM
    The 'exam question' is what sort of heating are you talking about? E7 tariffs are great for insomniacs and owners of storage heaters but of little benefit to those who want electric heating on during the day.
    Originally posted by Hengus
    Speaking from people who has had experience of them in the past say people didn't understand how to use them properly - leaving the boost flap open during charging and wondering why the heaters ran out of puff in the early evening?
    • AndyPK
    • By AndyPK 13th Apr 18, 5:19 PM
    • 2,778 Posts
    • 767 Thanks
    AndyPK
    • #5
    • 13th Apr 18, 5:19 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Apr 18, 5:19 PM
    If they are storage heaters yes.

    E7 and storage heaters were designed to go hand in hand.


    But for maximum no point rushing. Wait until a August to change over and you will see the true winter benefit.


    Investigate the last posts in this thread. Dread to think what the day rate is though

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5826734
    • frugalmacdugal
    • By frugalmacdugal 13th Apr 18, 5:27 PM
    • 6,219 Posts
    • 5,332 Thanks
    frugalmacdugal
    • #6
    • 13th Apr 18, 5:27 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Apr 18, 5:27 PM
    Hi,

    what do you mean '(rads running on thermostats)', do you mean panel heaters?
    Y'all take care now.
    • ProDave
    • By ProDave 13th Apr 18, 5:31 PM
    • 784 Posts
    • 852 Thanks
    ProDave
    • #7
    • 13th Apr 18, 5:31 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Apr 18, 5:31 PM
    Yes we need to know the heating system. Electric boiler?

    If it's some form of real time heating not storage, look at the E10 tariff, the off peak times are better suited to real time or small capacity storage (like an electric storage boiler) with only the early evening being difficult to avoid peak rate usage.

    Or look at a heat pump and get down close to gas prices for heating.
    • amtrakuk
    • By amtrakuk 13th Apr 18, 10:08 PM
    • 620 Posts
    • 209 Thanks
    amtrakuk
    • #8
    • 13th Apr 18, 10:08 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Apr 18, 10:08 PM
    Hi,

    what do you mean '(rads running on thermostats)', do you mean panel heaters?
    Originally posted by frugalmacdugal

    Yeah, a mix of 2 and 1 kW wall mounted oil filled rads.
    • amtrakuk
    • By amtrakuk 13th Apr 18, 10:13 PM
    • 620 Posts
    • 209 Thanks
    amtrakuk
    • #9
    • 13th Apr 18, 10:13 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Apr 18, 10:13 PM
    Yes we need to know the heating system. Electric boiler?

    If it's some form of real time heating not storage, look at the E10 tariff, the off peak times are better suited to real time or small capacity storage (like an electric storage boiler) with only the early evening being difficult to avoid peak rate usage.

    Or look at a heat pump and get down close to gas prices for heating.
    Originally posted by ProDave
    Hi Dave.

    At the moment I have a 210 litre thermal store running 2 x 3kW elements and a mix of wall mounted Dimplex mk 1 oil filled rads.
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 14th Apr 18, 8:51 AM
    • 3,503 Posts
    • 2,170 Thanks
    matelodave
    An oil filled radiator does not get its energy from a themal store - it's an on demand heater that connected to the electricity supply and uses power when you require heat.

    A thermal store usually heats water on off-peak electricity and then provides heat during the day when it's required via conventional radiators. It's provides also your hot water as well.

    So what actually do you have and how do you use it. How is it controlled. What the make and model of the store and have you got pipes running around the house to radiators or are they just wired in.

    A bit more info is required before anyone can understand what you've got
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
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    • Richie-from-the-Boro
    • By Richie-from-the-Boro 14th Apr 18, 4:58 PM
    • 6,376 Posts
    • 4,794 Thanks
    Richie-from-the-Boro
    45-55 units a day representing 3/4 of my energy usage with a mix a of 2 and 1 kW oil filled panels and a 210 litre thermal water store all drawing on expensive peak rate
    - about 30% more expensive
    - thermal store or just a bog standard top-feed immersion heater ?
    - - name [or picture of] the thermal store ?
    - name or [or picture of]the water controller ?
    - name of current electricity tariff ?
    - 5/12ths for 5 months or is the water 12/12 months ?
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - !!!8476;
    • amtrakuk
    • By amtrakuk 15th Apr 18, 4:00 PM
    • 620 Posts
    • 209 Thanks
    amtrakuk
    An oil filled radiator does not get its energy from a themal store - it's an on demand heater that connected to the electricity supply and uses power when you require heat.

    A thermal store usually heats water on off-peak electricity and then provides heat during the day when it's required via conventional radiators. It's provides also your hot water as well.

    So what actually do you have and how do you use it. How is it controlled. What the make and model of the store and have you got pipes running around the house to radiators or are they just wired in.

    A bit more info is required before anyone can understand what you've got
    Originally posted by matelodave

    Hi Dave.

    No problem.

    I have standard rate electric at the moment. The Thermal store is supplying only the hot water and is on its own spur from the Consumer Unit.

    The mix of Oil filled electric Rads are also on their own spur from the Consumer Unit.

    The Hot water and heating are essentially two separate items as the thermal store doesn't hold enough BTU for heating too - Still I digress...

    The main question is essentially for heating alone, should I replace the oil filled radiators with storage heaters and Economy 7? During the winter when the heating is on I am using about 3 times as much electricity to heat the house as when the heating is off.

    Heating on = about 50 units a day.
    Heating off = about 15 units a day.

    I think I have worked it out, I don't think it is worth it yet. What do you think of my calculations;

    Heating on

    150 days on 50 units = 7500 units - (15p * 150 days = 2250 units (Non Heating)) = 5250 units
    So over 150 days when the heating is on I use an additional 5250 units for the heating.
    5250 units divide by 150 days heating = 35 units - check ok.
    Economy 7 rate @ 10p a unit = 3.50 a day
    3.50 multiply 150 days = 525.00 on heating.


    215 day Heating Off (reminder of the year)

    15 units multiply 20p = 3.00 a day
    3.00 multiply by 365 days = 1095.00 (total minus the heating calculated above)

    Total for the year = 1620.00

    Rates (excluding standing rate 35p)

    Day 20p
    Night 10p

    So it seems even with Economy 7 the heating will be about 400.00 more than the 1,200.00 I'm paying.

    Does that seem right?
    Last edited by amtrakuk; 15-04-2018 at 4:04 PM.
    • amtrakuk
    • By amtrakuk 15th Apr 18, 4:07 PM
    • 620 Posts
    • 209 Thanks
    amtrakuk
    - about 30% more expensive
    - thermal store or just a bog standard top-feed immersion heater ?
    - - name [or picture of] the thermal store ?
    - name or [or picture of]the water controller ?
    - name of current electricity tariff ?
    - 5/12ths for 5 months or is the water 12/12 months ?
    Originally posted by Richie-from-the-Boro

    You've done this before Richie... I think it is about 30% more expensive then standard rate.
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