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  • FIRST POST
    • username2019
    • By username2019 13th Apr 18, 4:26 PM
    • 13Posts
    • 3Thanks
    username2019
    Terminating an employee that has raised a grievance
    • #1
    • 13th Apr 18, 4:26 PM
    Terminating an employee that has raised a grievance 13th Apr 18 at 4:26 PM
    Hi I was wondering if we had any HR people on here? I'm a manager in a small business and I report directly to the owner. A member of my team has recently submitted a grievance that she feels she is being discriminated against and treated less favourably than male colleagues. We are deeply sorry that she feels this way but now feel that there has been a breakdown in the relationship and that she would be better moving on to other employment.

    I'm aware that raising a grievance on a protected characteristic means this is now a tricky process but can we still dismiss her? She's had less than 2 years service so is unable to claim unfair dismissal.
Page 3
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 13th Apr 18, 8:57 PM
    • 6,695 Posts
    • 8,742 Thanks
    TBagpuss
    OK, assuming this is genuine, I suggest that you approach this with your boss.

    Frame it as protecting the company. Explain that you have looked into it, and you believe that firing this woman for alleged under performance, just after she had raised a grievance, runs a significant risk of looking like retaliation / victimisation, and that the employee could therefore claim that the firing was retaliation for having raised the allegation of discrimination.

    Remind your boss that there is no cap on the amount of damages which can be awarded if she claims unfair dismissal on the basis of discrimination, and succeeds.

    Point out that unless there are genuine, documented record of concerns about her performance having been raised *before* the grievance came up, the company would be at serious risk.

    Point out that even if she were to fail in a tribunal case, it could be expensive, time consuming and reflect badly on the company's reputation.
    • Xbigman
    • By Xbigman 13th Apr 18, 9:10 PM
    • 3,123 Posts
    • 1,358 Thanks
    Xbigman
    OP, assuming you are not a troll, you wont get an answer here, the tone was set from the first reply and followed from there. If you want real advice, i advise your boss pay a little money for a session with a solicitor or something.
    Originally posted by xapprenticex
    The tone was set in the original post which made the poster look very poor. The OP's boss, and the OP too in my opinion, are the reason employment laws exist.



    Darren
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    Eat properly
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    Save some money
    • Lavendyr
    • By Lavendyr 13th Apr 18, 10:12 PM
    • 2,092 Posts
    • 1,906 Thanks
    Lavendyr
    Um.

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5815627

    ....
    • gettingtheresometime
    • By gettingtheresometime 13th Apr 18, 10:26 PM
    • 3,913 Posts
    • 9,902 Thanks
    gettingtheresometime
    Great minds think alike
    Lloyds OD / Natwest OD / PO CC / Wescott / Argos Card cleared thanks to the 1 debt v 100 day challenge


    Next on the list - JD Williams
    • seashore22
    • By seashore22 13th Apr 18, 10:26 PM
    • 1,128 Posts
    • 2,561 Thanks
    seashore22
    Deja vu, all over again.
    • TadleyBaggie
    • By TadleyBaggie 13th Apr 18, 10:38 PM
    • 2,862 Posts
    • 2,171 Thanks
    TadleyBaggie
    Not the same poster I feel, based on on the OP in the other one had the smart punctuation error every time they used an apostrophe.
    • xapprenticex
    • By xapprenticex 14th Apr 18, 1:32 AM
    • 1,499 Posts
    • 1,468 Thanks
    xapprenticex
    Not the same poster I feel, based on on the OP in the other one had the smart punctuation error every time they used an apostrophe.
    Originally posted by TadleyBaggie
    Yeah def not the same.
    • TyreLever
    • By TyreLever 14th Apr 18, 6:43 AM
    • 197 Posts
    • 91 Thanks
    TyreLever
    Hi I was wondering if we had any HR people on here? I'm a manager in a small business and I report directly to the owner. A member of my team has recently submitted a grievance that she feels she is being discriminated against and treated less favourably than male colleagues. We are deeply sorry that she feels this way but now feel that there has been a breakdown in the relationship and that she would be better moving on to other employment.

    I'm aware that raising a grievance on a protected characteristic means this is now a tricky process but can we still dismiss her? She's had less than 2 years service so is unable to claim unfair dismissal.
    Originally posted by username2019
    Found one for you! A tidy reply:

    You are this person's manger, not their friend; and accordingly, sometimes have to discipline, as well as praise them. It's like being a teacher or a parent, not a class mate or sibling.

    If, as far as you are concerned, the matter has been properly dealt with, then that's the end of the story - you move on and continue to be professional in your dealings with her. She too needs to be professional, and act accordingly, even if the outcome wasn't the one she wanted. If she can't behave in a professional manner, you could look into addressing that, but you do need to be on solid ground.

    Therefore, whilst she might feel that the relationship has broken down (and you might personally agree), I don't think it's a decision you can make for her - she probably needs to come to that conclusion herself. That said, with less than 2 years' service, it would be perfectly legal to terminate her contract and pay her out her notice period.

    For a belt and braces solution, you could increase the amount, subject to signing a settlement agreement whereby she agrees to take no legal action against you.
    Originally posted by ReadingTim
    The "river of !!!!" analogy comes to mind.
    Sometimes my advice may not be great, but I'm not perfect and I do try my best. Please take this into account.
    • seashore22
    • By seashore22 14th Apr 18, 9:07 AM
    • 1,128 Posts
    • 2,561 Thanks
    seashore22
    Not the same poster I feel, based on on the OP in the other one had the smart punctuation error every time they used an apostrophe.
    Originally posted by TadleyBaggie
    Not so sure about that. The other op's alter ego managed to post without the apostrophe issue. On the balance of probabilities I'm going with all three being the same person.
    • ohreally
    • By ohreally 14th Apr 18, 9:24 AM
    • 6,719 Posts
    • 5,245 Thanks
    ohreally
    The apostrophe issue can easily be switched on and off.
    • Fireflyaway
    • By Fireflyaway 14th Apr 18, 9:33 AM
    • 1,882 Posts
    • 2,070 Thanks
    Fireflyaway
    You could let her go on the grounds of capability but it looks really bad that you would be doing this only after the employee has stated she feels discriminated against. If the employee wishes to take the issue of discrimination further then she can. She doesn't have to have been employed more than 2 years for that. It's worth remembering that should the company be found guilty at a tribunal, the fine for discrimination doesn't have an upper limit.
    I'd suggest trying to part ways in good terms. Meet with the employee and work on ways to rectify the situation first. Ensure you keep good records too. It might not be too late. Handling it the wrong way could be an expensive mistake.
    Last edited by Fireflyaway; 14-04-2018 at 9:34 AM. Reason: T
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 14th Apr 18, 10:38 AM
    • 2,749 Posts
    • 2,683 Thanks
    steampowered
    There is an important legal point that noone has mentioned yet.

    The employee's grievance may well be a 'protected disclosure' for the purposes of the Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998.

    If she is dismissed for raising the grievance, it will be unfair dismissal. No ifs or buts.

    In addition to damages for unfair dismissal she would be entitled to compensation for any other detriment suffered as a result of raising the grievance, and compensation for injury to feelings.

    The 2 years service requirement does not apply for this type of dismissal.

    You can't just dress this up as dismissal for poor performance. The judge will see straight through that. If this was a genuine poor performance dismissal you'd be able to show clear documented evidence of poor performance and that she was given warnings and a reasonable chance to improve.
    • stator
    • By stator 14th Apr 18, 11:16 AM
    • 6,444 Posts
    • 4,296 Thanks
    stator
    You need a solicitor.
    You're about to take some action which is possibly illegal, costing your employer tens of thousands of pounds and you're willing to take advice from an internet forum.
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
    • elsien
    • By elsien 14th Apr 18, 11:23 AM
    • 16,897 Posts
    • 42,664 Thanks
    elsien
    Not so sure about that. The other op's alter ego managed to post without the apostrophe issue. On the balance of probabilities I'm going with all three being the same person.
    Originally posted by seashore22
    Who's the third one? Seem to have missed them. Just seen this and undercoverirish.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • xapprenticex
    • By xapprenticex 14th Apr 18, 11:50 AM
    • 1,499 Posts
    • 1,468 Thanks
    xapprenticex
    Looks like if you really want to get rid of her, you'll have to keep here for a little while longer till the grievance blows over.
    • seashore22
    • By seashore22 14th Apr 18, 12:59 PM
    • 1,128 Posts
    • 2,561 Thanks
    seashore22
    Who's the third one? Seem to have missed them. Just seen this and undercoverirish.
    Originally posted by elsien
    bonnielass18. Posting from the other side of the issue.
    • parking_question_chap
    • By parking_question_chap 15th Apr 18, 12:01 AM
    • 1,714 Posts
    • 1,474 Thanks
    parking_question_chap
    Can you tell us the name of your employer, so we know never to work for you?
    Originally posted by GothicStirling
    Sounds like the sort of company that routinely folds and pops up again with a new name to hide from people they have previously screwed over.
    • prowla
    • By prowla 15th Apr 18, 8:26 AM
    • 9,997 Posts
    • 8,178 Thanks
    prowla
    People with protected characteristics can be dismissed but given what you've admitted she will be able to claim unfair dismissal.

    So maybe not discriminate against 50% of the population?

    And is irrelevant, women can discriminate against women too you know.

    Or have you & rest put her in coventry?

    Dear or dear. Joining a forum and declaring you want rid of her and planning on pretending she's underperforming. O boy, that is comedy gold on an employment forum.

    I'm not going to comment further on such a set up story after the recent thread about a manager who disciplined a women based on a false complaint by a male colleague which the manager didn't even investigate. This is clearly a wind up.
    Originally posted by nicechap
    I was bullied and sent to coventry during my probation period in my last job by the Finance manager (the ringleader) and the HR manager and they tried to make life difficult for me in general.

    When I finally did leave, after three and half years of good work (peformed despite the aforementioned people), the MD had a meeting with me to discuss my reasons in which I told him some of the background.

    For some reason I didn't have a formal exit interview.

    As for this one, assuming it is genuine, I hope it goes to a tribunal and hope the employee wins.
    • jobbingmusician
    • By jobbingmusician 15th Apr 18, 1:17 PM
    • 19,220 Posts
    • 19,730 Thanks
    jobbingmusician
    OK, so there IS a solution to this. At least you have something to take to your manager.

    You (NOT actually you, keep reading) could arrange a settlement agreement with your employee. IMHO you would have to give her a substantial amount of money in addition to an agreed reference. I would think that in this case 6 months' salary would be an absolute minimum. Please note that as part of the agreement the employee has to take independant legal advice (for which you would normally pay), so FGS if you are going down this route, take advice yourself before doing or offering anything.

    Faced with a boss who wants the employee out, and the employee's rights and very obvious sex discrimination case, this is the only way forward I can see. Perhaps explaining this to your boss might change her mind?
    I'm the Board Guide on the Matched Betting; Referrers and Jobseeking & Training boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge posts there. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

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    • username2019
    • By username2019 15th Apr 18, 2:49 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    username2019
    Mixed bag here I see. Apparently people seem to think I am posting on here for kicks.

    Her probation is coming up soon and we need to make a decision. Thank you to those that have taken time to post valuable advice.
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