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  • FIRST POST
    • PeterinScotland
    • By PeterinScotland 13th Apr 18, 3:55 PM
    • 50Posts
    • 11Thanks
    PeterinScotland
    What am I paying for when I send a parcel?
    • #1
    • 13th Apr 18, 3:55 PM
    What am I paying for when I send a parcel? 13th Apr 18 at 3:55 PM
    If a parcel company can exclude all liability if I don't buy extra compensation, what exactly am I paying for when I send a parcel?

    Surely even if I decline to take out compensation I must still be buying something? It can't just be the right to get the carriage charge back if the parcel is not delivered, as I have this money in my hand right now, so I would be getting absolutely nothing for my money - and one has to get something for one's "consideration" in a contract. What I'm saying is surely I must have the right to expect the parcel company to do something more than if I'd held on to my money in the first place.

    Or am I, by refusing to take out compensation, saying that the contents are of no value but that I wish to buy the convenience of a likelihood that in, say, 90% of cases that I do this, my parcel should be delivered?

    And does the fact that I am selling goods (i.e. acting as a business) make any difference as compared to if I as a private individual was sending a gift? I am thinking of the following in their Terms and Conditions:
    " Where you deal with us as a consumer, nothing within these terms and conditions shall be deemed to affect your rights under the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977. For the avoidance of any doubt, when you deal with us as a business the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 is hereby excluded to the fullest extent legally possible and you are further referred to additional terms relating to business clients set out below."
Page 1
    • BrassicWoman
    • By BrassicWoman 13th Apr 18, 4:01 PM
    • 1,709 Posts
    • 7,019 Thanks
    BrassicWoman
    • #2
    • 13th Apr 18, 4:01 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Apr 18, 4:01 PM
    what would it cost you to deliver it yourself?

    you're paying to not have that cost, or use that time
    Jan 18 grocery challenge £105.13/ £150
    • PeterinScotland
    • By PeterinScotland 13th Apr 18, 4:13 PM
    • 50 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    PeterinScotland
    • #3
    • 13th Apr 18, 4:13 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Apr 18, 4:13 PM
    what would it cost you to deliver it yourself?

    you're paying to not have that cost, or use that time
    Originally posted by BrassicWoman
    That's what I'd be paying for if the courier *did* deliver it. But if they are not delivering the goods or paying me back for the goods lost, I still don't understand what it is that I'm paying for.
    • John-K
    • By John-K 13th Apr 18, 4:24 PM
    • 654 Posts
    • 1,017 Thanks
    John-K
    • #4
    • 13th Apr 18, 4:24 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Apr 18, 4:24 PM
    That's what I'd be paying for if the courier *did* deliver it. But if they are not delivering the goods or paying me back for the goods lost, I still don't understand what it is that I'm paying for.
    Originally posted by PeterinScotland
    Youíre paying for them to try to deliver it.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 13th Apr 18, 4:50 PM
    • 12,641 Posts
    • 9,955 Thanks
    unholyangel
    • #5
    • 13th Apr 18, 4:50 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Apr 18, 4:50 PM
    As a consumer you have certain protections. A business doesn't as they're supposed to do due diligence, be aware of the risks, the costs and either accept those (and work them into your profit margin) or insure against them (either by policy or action). A business will usually enter contracts every day (sometimes hundreds or thousands per day) so they don't really have any excuse not to be aware what theyre agreeing to and as a result, don't receive as much protection. There are some things which are unfair in a b2b contract but its very limited when compared to what is unfair in a consumer contract.

    However, there may be some circumstances where the courier carries out their duties with reasonable skill & care but the package still becomes lost, delayed or damaged.

    If they were actually negligent then you'd maybe have a claim against them but often the problem you will have is proving it. All you'll know is that the parcel is damaged/lost, not why.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 13th Apr 18, 4:54 PM
    • 12,641 Posts
    • 9,955 Thanks
    unholyangel
    • #6
    • 13th Apr 18, 4:54 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Apr 18, 4:54 PM
    Youíre paying for them to try to deliver it.
    Originally posted by John-K
    To be fair, I do see their point - there shouldn't be any "try" about it.

    You wouldn't pay your network operator or service provider if they only tried to provide your service - you'd only pay if they did provide the service.

    Its just one of those industry standards that has been in place so long, people accept it without question.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • BrassicWoman
    • By BrassicWoman 14th Apr 18, 11:19 PM
    • 1,709 Posts
    • 7,019 Thanks
    BrassicWoman
    • #7
    • 14th Apr 18, 11:19 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Apr 18, 11:19 PM
    That's what I'd be paying for if the courier *did* deliver it. But if they are not delivering the goods or paying me back for the goods lost, I still don't understand what it is that I'm paying for.
    Originally posted by PeterinScotland
    but even if you were doing it yourself sometimes you get a flat tyre or someone breaks into yoru car when you go for a break at the service station or you might drop the parcel or the wrapping might get wet in the rain.

    We live in an imperfect world. 99% of the time, the couriers do well (expect hermes!)

    You want perfect do it yourself, and strap the parcel to your body at all times until it is delivered (unless it is something melty like chocolate.)

    And if you want no risk, insure your goods, just like you do if you pay someone to move house for you.
    Jan 18 grocery challenge £105.13/ £150
    • foxtrotoscar
    • By foxtrotoscar 15th Apr 18, 12:27 AM
    • 1,084 Posts
    • 1,672 Thanks
    foxtrotoscar
    • #8
    • 15th Apr 18, 12:27 AM
    • #8
    • 15th Apr 18, 12:27 AM
    but even if you were doing it yourself sometimes you get a flat tyre or someone breaks into yoru car when you go for a break at the service station or you might drop the parcel or the wrapping might get wet in the rain.

    We live in an imperfect world. 99% of the time, the couriers do well (expect hermes!)

    You want perfect do it yourself, and strap the parcel to your body at all times until it is delivered (unless it is something melty like chocolate.)

    And if you want no risk, insure your goods, just like you do if you pay someone to move house for you.
    Originally posted by BrassicWoman
    I've never had a failed delivery from herpes...but I do realise humans like yourself are fallible and make mistakes.
    • custardy
    • By custardy 15th Apr 18, 6:02 AM
    • 33,888 Posts
    • 28,746 Thanks
    custardy
    • #9
    • 15th Apr 18, 6:02 AM
    • #9
    • 15th Apr 18, 6:02 AM
    If a parcel company can exclude all liability if I don't buy extra compensation, what exactly am I paying for when I send a parcel?

    Surely even if I decline to take out compensation I must still be buying something? It can't just be the right to get the carriage charge back if the parcel is not delivered, as I have this money in my hand right now, so I would be getting absolutely nothing for my money - and one has to get something for one's "consideration" in a contract. What I'm saying is surely I must have the right to expect the parcel company to do something more than if I'd held on to my money in the first place.

    Or am I, by refusing to take out compensation, saying that the contents are of no value but that I wish to buy the convenience of a likelihood that in, say, 90% of cases that I do this, my parcel should be delivered?

    And does the fact that I am selling goods (i.e. acting as a business) make any difference as compared to if I as a private individual was sending a gift? I am thinking of the following in their Terms and Conditions:
    " Where you deal with us as a consumer, nothing within these terms and conditions shall be deemed to affect your rights under the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977. For the avoidance of any doubt, when you deal with us as a business the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 is hereby excluded to the fullest extent legally possible and you are further referred to additional terms relating to business clients set out below."
    Originally posted by PeterinScotland

    They offer cheaper services to meet market demands.
    These services dont include compensation. Many business sellers 'self insure' with a % of their profit margin.
    If the simply bundled the compensation,people would use the courier that doesnt.
    Seen dozens of threads with (for example)I sent my item worth £200 but its only insured for £20
    Look at RM Special delivery,class leading cover in both monetary and whats covered but it costs.
    • visidigi
    • By visidigi 15th Apr 18, 10:38 AM
    • 5,684 Posts
    • 3,562 Thanks
    visidigi
    If a parcel company can exclude all liability if I don't buy extra compensation, what exactly am I paying for when I send a parcel?

    Surely even if I decline to take out compensation I must still be buying something? It can't just be the right to get the carriage charge back if the parcel is not delivered, as I have this money in my hand right now, so I would be getting absolutely nothing for my money - and one has to get something for one's "consideration" in a contract. What I'm saying is surely I must have the right to expect the parcel company to do something more than if I'd held on to my money in the first place.

    Or am I, by refusing to take out compensation, saying that the contents are of no value but that I wish to buy the convenience of a likelihood that in, say, 90% of cases that I do this, my parcel should be delivered?

    And does the fact that I am selling goods (i.e. acting as a business) make any difference as compared to if I as a private individual was sending a gift? I am thinking of the following in their Terms and Conditions:
    " Where you deal with us as a consumer, nothing within these terms and conditions shall be deemed to affect your rights under the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977. For the avoidance of any doubt, when you deal with us as a business the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 is hereby excluded to the fullest extent legally possible and you are further referred to additional terms relating to business clients set out below."
    Originally posted by PeterinScotland
    Ah but you are referring to Parcel2go.com - they are NOT a parcel, nor courier company. They are a re seller, reselling the parcel companies product with their own terms.

    The courier companies themselves have a standard compensation payment which is paid on lost and some have a money back guarantee on late deliveries. It depends on the company.

    But the key thing here is - deal with the courier direct, not a re seller. You cannot have your cake (cheaper prices) and eat it (expect courier service coverage) from a re seller.

    To address your original question - You are buying an opportunity to access a service which is priced lower due to the bulk-buying power of a re seller /aggregator of courier services.
    • bris
    • By bris 15th Apr 18, 12:53 PM
    • 7,807 Posts
    • 6,789 Thanks
    bris
    As a business you should know and accept the risks or stop being a business. You question is a bit silly for a business person tbh, have you never made mistakes in what you do? I bet you have business insurance to cover those risks.
    You know about risks, you insure for them, this is no different.
    • Deastons
    • By Deastons 15th Apr 18, 3:02 PM
    • 272 Posts
    • 152 Thanks
    Deastons
    I thought this years ago when, at the Post Office, the woman asked if I'd like to send it guaranteed delivery. I asked what this meant and she said "It just guarantees it'll arrive".

    I was paying for them to deliver something but had to pay extra to guarantee they'd actually do what I'd paid them to do in the first place.
    • custardy
    • By custardy 15th Apr 18, 3:49 PM
    • 33,888 Posts
    • 28,746 Thanks
    custardy
    I thought this years ago when, at the Post Office, the woman asked if I'd like to send it guaranteed delivery. I asked what this meant and she said "It just guarantees it'll arrive".

    I was paying for them to deliver something but had to pay extra to guarantee they'd actually do what I'd paid them to do in the first place.
    Originally posted by Deastons
    and how many items havent arrived since then?
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