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    • pointdexter
    • By pointdexter 13th Apr 18, 11:40 AM
    • 4Posts
    • 1Thanks
    pointdexter
    Drawdown with HL.
    • #1
    • 13th Apr 18, 11:40 AM
    Drawdown with HL. 13th Apr 18 at 11:40 AM
    Hi, first time poster here. After 25 years of diligent saving and laterly investing (4years)as a novice, my wife and i are fortunate to have a total1.1M pot with HL, both of us in their s&s isas and sipps.Our fee's are a negotiated 0.25%. I am 59 wife 56. We will be eligable for full state pensions at 66, are mortgage and debt free, kids long gone. Retirement horizon 18 months hence.

    I am having difficulty arriving at the optimal type of drawdown plan in the round, for both of us. To use UFPLS, Flexi access drawdown, phased uncrystalized capped, how much pension commencement lump sums, utilizing TFA's etc. I have concluded i will have to pay for some proffesional help.We have done a retire easy lifetime type plan.

    I have had brief talks with a couple of IFA's and they would want control of the pot and move away from HL and on to their platform and investment choices.I am not keen that idea. Of course HL will do this but would also want to rearrange our portfolios, but brief enquires suggest just generic replies or cut and paste, without an open conversation on the various options.

    I would like to sit down with somebody and have some personal input.I would appreciate any suggestions i might explore.Thanks in advance.

    Kind regards Pointdexter.
Page 1
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 13th Apr 18, 12:22 PM
    • 22,294 Posts
    • 10,913 Thanks
    lisyloo
    • #2
    • 13th Apr 18, 12:22 PM
    • #2
    • 13th Apr 18, 12:22 PM
    brief enquiries will no get personalised advice.
    Have you condisered using HL for advice?

    but would also want to rearrange our portfolios
    What's your issue with that?

    I would like to sit down with somebody and have some personal input.
    You are going to have to pay for that.

    Have you considered a part-annuity? I am no expert but this guarantees you income which drawdown doesn't.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 13th Apr 18, 12:32 PM
    • 93,983 Posts
    • 61,788 Thanks
    dunstonh
    • #3
    • 13th Apr 18, 12:32 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Apr 18, 12:32 PM
    I have had brief talks with a couple of IFA's and they would want control of the pot and move away from HL and on to their platform and investment choices.I am not keen that idea.
    HL is an expensive platform. So, its no wonder. For example, an IFA could use a platform that has a charge that caps out at 500k and it 0.24% on the value upto that point. How could they justify you staying with HL paying twice the charges? Plus, HL are not set up to provide IFAs a service.

    If you are not after investment advice then investment class advisers are not going to be interested.

    Of course HL will do this but would also want to rearrange our portfolios, but brief enquires suggest just generic replies or cut and paste, without an open conversation on the various options.
    HL are not IFAs. They are restricted. So, you expect some of that. However, until you employ an adviser for advice, you are not going to get much in the way of advice.

    I would like to sit down with somebody and have some personal input.I would appreciate any suggestions i might explore.Thanks in advance.
    You perhaps need to be clearer on what you are after. Regulated advice has requirements and expectations. Advisers are generally not keen on fudging things nowadays and advisers are not going to give away too much of their product for free. That is no way to run a business.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • Simple Man
    • By Simple Man 13th Apr 18, 1:16 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Simple Man
    • #4
    • 13th Apr 18, 1:16 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Apr 18, 1:16 PM
    I have had brief talks with a couple of IFA's and they would want control of the pot and move away from HL and on to their platform and investment choices.I am not keen that idea.
    Originally posted by pointdexter
    Quite understandable, but even when I have called up firms specifically mentioned on this forum as being able to offer 'advice only' advice, all I got was a load of hard sell to do more and I suspect I am not going to get what I want from him. OK, try the next one. To save time open the conversation with 'Hi, I want to purchase some advice on an advice only basis, can you help'.
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 13th Apr 18, 1:44 PM
    • 3,017 Posts
    • 2,360 Thanks
    Alexland
    • #5
    • 13th Apr 18, 1:44 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Apr 18, 1:44 PM
    I sometimes get so tempted to by HL shares....

    Even a negotiated 0.25% platform fee on 1.1m is 2,750 per year so any good advisor would tell you to leave as you are burning money. For comparison iWeb (owned by Halifax) would charge a fixed 180 per year per pension and just 25 setup per ISA then 5 per trade.

    Still with those values I would definitely want my money spread across multiple platforms even if it costs a bit more in fees. It will still be a lot cheaper than you are paying HL currently.

    In terms of advice if you are not getting what you want from the IFA community have you considered doing a lot of research, learning from these forums then and making your own decisions? iWeb have a well structured guide to taking SIPP benefits at:

    http://www.iweb-sharedealing.co.uk/PDFs/SIPP-Benefits-Guide.pdf

    Alex
    Last edited by Alexland; 13-04-2018 at 1:53 PM.
    • bostonerimus
    • By bostonerimus 13th Apr 18, 2:09 PM
    • 2,136 Posts
    • 1,459 Thanks
    bostonerimus
    • #6
    • 13th Apr 18, 2:09 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Apr 18, 2:09 PM
    HL is an expensive platform. So, its no wonder. For example, an IFA could use a platform that has a charge that caps out at 500k and it 0.24% on the value upto that point. How could they justify you staying with HL paying twice the charges? Plus, HL are not set up to provide IFAs a service.
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    It's not entirely altruistic advice as I'm sure the IFA will charge a fee too and the OP might end up with larger expenses. Whether the advice the OP gets is worth the fee is debatable.
    Misanthrope in search of similar for mutual loathing
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 13th Apr 18, 2:13 PM
    • 93,983 Posts
    • 61,788 Thanks
    dunstonh
    • #7
    • 13th Apr 18, 2:13 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Apr 18, 2:13 PM
    It's not entirely altruistic advice as I'm sure the IFA will charge a fee too and the OP might end up with larger expenses. Whether the advice the OP gets is worth the fee is debatable.
    Originally posted by bostonerimus
    You miss the point. Platform charges are not linked to advice. Why would an IFA use HL when they can get better value?

    Plus, HL charge for advice. So, if you used them, you would get the higher platform cost and a charge for advice.

    We know your anti adviser position and that you feel everybody should not not use an adviser but making a pigs ear of it under DIY is also possible.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • A_T
    • By A_T 13th Apr 18, 2:14 PM
    • 505 Posts
    • 332 Thanks
    A_T
    • #8
    • 13th Apr 18, 2:14 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Apr 18, 2:14 PM
    If one uses only shares/ETFs/investment trusts HL's fees are capped at 200pa for the SIPP and 45pa for ISA.
    • zagfles
    • By zagfles 13th Apr 18, 2:22 PM
    • 13,276 Posts
    • 11,267 Thanks
    zagfles
    • #9
    • 13th Apr 18, 2:22 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Apr 18, 2:22 PM
    Is it just drawdown options you're confused about? They're not really not that complicated, especially for someone happy to make investment decsions themselves. You mentioned capped above, that doesn't exist anymore except for people already in capped drawdown.

    Basically, you get 25% of the fund tax free, the rest is taxable. UFPLS, phased drawdown and full drawdown are different ways to achieve this.

    Before anything else, have a chat with Pensionwise (it's free) to see if they can explain the options and take it from there:
    https://www.pensionwise.gov.uk/en

    Don't get stressed about charges. 0.25% is less than the stock market typically moves in a day. If you use an IFA they're likely to charge you far more in advice fees than any minor saving they could get you in platform charges.
    Last edited by zagfles; 13-04-2018 at 2:26 PM.
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 13th Apr 18, 2:49 PM
    • 22,294 Posts
    • 10,913 Thanks
    lisyloo
    It's not entirely altruistic advice as I'm sure the IFA will charge a fee too and the OP might end up with larger expenses.
    I've had the same IFA for a long time. Whilst most of us don't work for free (so why should they), my IFA is interested in long term relationships. Sometimes I get advise for free, other years I pay 0.5% and get nothing. I'm happy with that.

    Whether the advice the OP gets is worth the fee is debatable.
    Unles one knows everything there is to know about state, private, investments, LTA, drawdown, annuities, then I'd have thought this was one of those times when good advice was worth it's weight in gold.
    I would think it's quite hard for a lay person to think of everything.

    I will be getting advice but because my advisor gets a regular 0.5% they won't charge for it as it's part of the service.
    • OldMusicGuy
    • By OldMusicGuy 13th Apr 18, 3:29 PM
    • 513 Posts
    • 994 Thanks
    OldMusicGuy
    Like Zagfles said, see the Pensionwise adviser first if you have not. They will explain all the options (but not give advice). It's really up to you if you can work out a retirement strategy or want to pay someone to do it for you. I have worked out my own, IMO it's not hard but then I am competent with spreadsheets and have a financial background.

    I have developed my own low risk strategy for managing my DC pot (my DC pot plus ISAs and savings outside the DC pot is similar to yours in total). I am using UFPLS and savings up to state pension age to deliver tax free income for five years, once I reach SP age I will reappraise my approach. My HL SIPP is currently 23% cash, the rest invested in multi-asset funds. If you do not feel confident to develop your own strategy and deciding which funds to hold, that's where I would say an IFA could add value.

    I will probably move from HL soon as I don't have any discount and they are expensive (although the service is excellent).
    Last edited by OldMusicGuy; 13-04-2018 at 3:50 PM.
    • bostonerimus
    • By bostonerimus 13th Apr 18, 4:59 PM
    • 2,136 Posts
    • 1,459 Thanks
    bostonerimus
    You miss the point. Platform charges are not linked to advice. Why would an IFA use HL when they can get better value?
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    I was not endorsing HL's fee schedule. Everyone should look for the best deal on platform fees! I was pointing out that the IFA has an obvious interest in getting the OP to move the money so the IFA can manage it or get some sub-contractor to do that. That might end up being a good deal for the OP, but it might not......it will obviously involve fees and the OP would be wise to compare the size of those fees to how much he/she currently pays at HL and whether they will really give any added value. He /she could also look for a lower cost DIY option.
    Misanthrope in search of similar for mutual loathing
    • bostonerimus
    • By bostonerimus 13th Apr 18, 5:06 PM
    • 2,136 Posts
    • 1,459 Thanks
    bostonerimus
    I've had the same IFA for a long time. Whilst most of us don't work for free (so why should they), my IFA is interested in long term relationships. Sometimes I get advise for free, other years I pay 0.5% and get nothing. I'm happy with that.

    Unles one knows everything there is to know about state, private, investments, LTA, drawdown, annuities, then I'd have thought this was one of those times when good advice was worth it's weight in gold.
    I would think it's quite hard for a lay person to think of everything.

    I will be getting advice but because my advisor gets a regular 0.5% they won't charge for it as it's part of the service.
    Originally posted by lisyloo
    If people feel that they need advice and that they get good service then that's fine, but it doesn't need to be all that complicated and I can't see much reason for most people to need ongoing advice at 0.5% per year. That's around 15% of a sensible drawdown amount and I certainly would begrudge that so I don't spend it.
    Misanthrope in search of similar for mutual loathing
    • pointdexter
    • By pointdexter 16th Apr 18, 8:49 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    pointdexter
    Thanks for all posters replies, our isas and sipps are mainly IT's and passives. It is the "nuts and bolts" i need help with going forward with Drawdown. Cheers Pointdexter
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