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  • FIRST POST
    • P2P
    • By P2P 13th Apr 18, 10:18 AM
    • 37Posts
    • 5Thanks
    P2P
    Estate Inventory
    • #1
    • 13th Apr 18, 10:18 AM
    Estate Inventory 13th Apr 18 at 10:18 AM
    Hopefully a quick question

    When does an estate inventory (complete not partial) need to be submitted by?

    The reason I ask is that the estate administrator has only submitted a partial inventory with items I can identify, missing.

    The solicitors have advised that the rest of the content (missing items) will be included after the house is sold, but I am concerned that items will 'disappear' or be sold in the meantime.

    I have some photographic evidence that supports my position i.e. where I can access the garage and shed, none of these items (including a sit on mower) etc aren't included in the inventory produced to date

    Thanks.
    Last edited by P2P; 13-04-2018 at 10:42 AM.
Page 1
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 13th Apr 18, 11:09 AM
    • 4,409 Posts
    • 3,652 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    • #2
    • 13th Apr 18, 11:09 AM
    • #2
    • 13th Apr 18, 11:09 AM
    Hopefully a quick question

    When does an estate inventory (complete not partial) need to be submitted by?

    The reason I ask is that the estate administrator has only submitted a partial inventory with items I can identify, missing.

    The solicitors have advised that the rest of the content (missing items) will be included after the house is sold, but I am concerned that items will 'disappear' or be sold in the meantime.

    I have some photographic evidence that supports my position i.e. where I can access the garage and shed, none of these items (including a sit on mower) etc aren't included in the inventory produced to date

    Thanks.
    Originally posted by P2P
    This rings alarm bells. Non fixtures such as mowers should be included in the inventory. The administrator needs reminding of the need for a FULL list to be given. The solicitor should know this but perhaps needs reminding. Of course with small items of negligible value are another matter. A ride on mower is not a cheap item.
    • P2P
    • By P2P 13th Apr 18, 3:07 PM
    • 37 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    P2P
    • #3
    • 13th Apr 18, 3:07 PM
    • #3
    • 13th Apr 18, 3:07 PM
    This is why I am concerned and asking when the final inventory needs to be submitted?

    There are other items, watches for example that are equally not being included.

    I really need to be clear when the inventory needs to be complete?
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 13th Apr 18, 3:13 PM
    • 4,409 Posts
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    Yorkshireman99
    • #4
    • 13th Apr 18, 3:13 PM
    • #4
    • 13th Apr 18, 3:13 PM
    It might be stating the obvious but how can the executor submit
    the probate application until they have a full inventory to know the values.
    As I said it rings all sorts of alarm bells. There is no excuse for not doing it already.
    Last edited by Yorkshireman99; 13-04-2018 at 3:24 PM.
    • P2P
    • By P2P 13th Apr 18, 5:10 PM
    • 37 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    P2P
    • #5
    • 13th Apr 18, 5:10 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Apr 18, 5:10 PM
    Yes I agree, but how would anyone other than close family know what contents are in the house.

    I am one of the beneficiaries and know for a fact items are missing. A court won't know and I am concerned this is going to become yet another issue.

    My question still stands as to when an inventory (complete) needs to be submitted, and if so when I could possibly escalate my concerns if the inventory is not complete, which to date I know to be the case
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 13th Apr 18, 5:56 PM
    • 4,409 Posts
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    Yorkshireman99
    • #6
    • 13th Apr 18, 5:56 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Apr 18, 5:56 PM
    Yes I agree, but how would anyone other than close family know what contents are in the house.

    I am one of the beneficiaries and know for a fact items are missing. A court won't know and I am concerned this is going to become yet another issue.

    My question still stands as to when an inventory (complete) needs to be submitted, and if so when I could possibly escalate my concerns if the inventory is not complete, which to date I know to be the case
    Originally posted by P2P
    Read what I said again. The executor has a legal duty to make sure that the probate application is as accurate as possible. The only way they can do that is to make sure a full, and accurate inventory is done. How they go about that is their concern. Having said that if you expect some sort of skullduggery then tell the solicitor but you will need proof.
    • P2P
    • By P2P 13th Apr 18, 6:07 PM
    • 37 Posts
    • 5 Thanks
    P2P
    • #7
    • 13th Apr 18, 6:07 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Apr 18, 6:07 PM
    I don't need to read what you have said again, if you read my question, you will see this hasn't been answered. I am trying to find out legally when the inventory is required?

    If you don't know then fine!
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 13th Apr 18, 6:27 PM
    • 4,409 Posts
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    Yorkshireman99
    • #8
    • 13th Apr 18, 6:27 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Apr 18, 6:27 PM
    I have told you. It has to be done before probate can be applied for. Unless the executor has a means of valuing the estate he can.t apply from for probate.
    Last edited by Yorkshireman99; 13-04-2018 at 6:32 PM.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 13th Apr 18, 11:04 PM
    • 10,180 Posts
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    AnotherJoe
    • #9
    • 13th Apr 18, 11:04 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Apr 18, 11:04 PM
    Playing devils advocate here, could the situation be that someone has takena cursiory look at the contents, decided that they and any property are welll under the IHT threshold and therefore it's not worth making a full inventory ? Or even if it's above , they've decided it's worth roughly (say) £10k and the full value will onky be established when it's sold and it's not worth the time and trouble to list everything separately ?

    I dont know if this is in Scotland for example and its different there, but I've just done probate for a modest estate in England and there is no requirement to produce an inventory as such, there's just a requirement to estimate the value of the items owned by the deceased. So I roughly worked it out based on major items but certainly didn't itemise everything in the flat, not by a long way. Had my mother owned a sit on lawn mower for example, I'd have assessed its value and added that to the total valuation but there is nowhere to list items like that

    So when you say "when does an estate inventory need to be submitted by" there is no estate inventory submission required. You do need to itemise total values of various categories such as shares, property foreign assets etc but you do not, within each of those (or at least, not for house contents or bank accounts) "submit" an inventory to anyone.

    Do you suspect that the person doing the valuation / executor will be hiding things and trousering the Money? Or is it sentimental items? Or something else?
    Last edited by AnotherJoe; 13-04-2018 at 11:07 PM.
    • AnaBenjie
    • By AnaBenjie 14th Apr 18, 7:53 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    AnaBenjie
    P2P you should be more polite
    P2P,
    You must be being deliberately obtuse. Yorkshireman has been very clear with his accurate replies. Please be more polite and grateful in the forum.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 14th Apr 18, 8:55 AM
    • 32,754 Posts
    • 19,705 Thanks
    getmore4less
    Hopefully a quick question

    When does an estate inventory (complete not partial) need to be submitted by?

    there is no such thing as submitting the inventory.

    The reason I ask is that the estate administrator has only submitted a partial inventory with items I can identify, missing.

    what do you mean by submitted

    The solicitors have advised that the rest of the content (missing items) will be included after the house is sold, but I am concerned that items will 'disappear' or be sold in the meantime.

    I have some photographic evidence that supports my position i.e. where I can access the garage and shed, none of these items (including a sit on mower) etc aren't included in the inventory produced to date

    Thanks.
    Originally posted by P2P
    The "inventory an account" is what an administrator used to track all the assets and what happens to them.


    I am trying to find out legally when the inventory is required?
    There is no legal requirement to give(submit) it to anybody unless told to by the court.

    estates administration act 1925(with amendments) s.25
    Duty of personal representatives.

    The personal representative of a deceased person shall be under a duty to!!!8212;
    (a)collect and get in the real and personal estate of the deceased and administer it according to law;

    (b)when required to do so by the court, exhibit on oath in the court a full inventory of the estate and when so required render an account of the administration of the estate to the court;
    As the court will always say do an inventory and account if asked it is common practice to create one and distribute it to the interested parties(like residual beneficiaries) anyway.

    This should contain all known assets as soon as they are known about, there is no reason to leave anything off until later this includes the share of those passed by survivorship.
    The inventory should also include debt and credits.

    The account(ing) tracks the assets and cash to their final destination, expenses,tax, distribution etc.

    How detailed an inventory needs to be is left to the discretion of the Administrator and often items are grouped, eg personal belongings may be sufficient or broken down with more detail or only valuable items singled out. eg.
    mink coat £4,000
    other clothes 50p

    The IHT return that goes with the probate application can include information that does not have to be included on the inventory but can impact the IHT due suitable records to account for the IHT bill if any also need to be kept should a full detailed account be requested.

    the inventory used for the IHT forms can be very different to the full estate administration one, although in many cases they are close.
    The administrator may be happy for the IHT return to use "household good £XXXX"
    The beneficiaries may want a more detailed list as things are allocated to different people.
    Last edited by getmore4less; 14-04-2018 at 8:58 AM.
    • SevenOfNine
    • By SevenOfNine 14th Apr 18, 9:08 AM
    • 1,373 Posts
    • 1,381 Thanks
    SevenOfNine
    I don't need to read what you have said again, if you read my question, you will see this hasn't been answered. I am trying to find out legally when the inventory is required?

    If you don't know then fine!
    Originally posted by P2P
    I'm sure if you supply YM99 with the EXACT date the administrator/solicitor plans to complete the probate forms, YM99 will be able to tell you the EXACT date a full & accurate inventory must be supplied, at the absolute latest it will be the same date!

    Until then, he can't give a more specific answer than he already has "before probate can be applied for".
    Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 14th Apr 18, 9:28 AM
    • 4,409 Posts
    • 3,652 Thanks
    Yorkshireman99
    I'm sure if you supply YM99 with the EXACT date the administrator/solicitor plans to complete the probate forms, YM99 will be able to tell you the EXACT date a full & accurate inventory must be supplied, at the absolute latest it will be the same date!

    Until then, he can't give a more specific answer than he already has "before probate can be applied for".
    Originally posted by SevenOfNine
    Thanks for making it much clearer than I, despite my best efforts, could do. Hopefully the OP has got the answer (s)he required. Also thanks to GM4L.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 14th Apr 18, 9:45 AM
    • 10,180 Posts
    • 11,461 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    I'm sure if you supply YM99 with the EXACT date the administrator/solicitor plans to complete the probate forms, YM99 will be able to tell you the EXACT date a full & accurate inventory must be supplied, at the absolute latest it will be the same date!

    Until then, he can't give a more specific answer than he already has "before probate can be applied for".
    Originally posted by SevenOfNine

    Incorrect.

    As I and GM4L has pointed out, there is no date by which a full and accurate inventory must be supplied unless a court asks for it and that will come after probate has been submitted. It may even come after probate has been agreed, for example a beneficiary complains after distribution that money is missing and a court orders that a full inventory must be produced.

    Who is it that the OP thinks will be causing possessions to dissapear ? Or is this an unwarranted assumption based on the fact they beleive such an inventory needs to be produced and therefore have jumped to the conclusion that Dark Deeds Are Afoot since it isn't ?
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 14th Apr 18, 9:53 AM
    • 5,307 Posts
    • 5,932 Thanks
    Keep pedalling
    There is no need to itemise every single item, and usually everyday house contents are lumped together. Even if you have a collection of valuable items they don!!!8217;t need to be listed individually. So if I had 10 first addition books, they could be lumped together on the inventory.

    Items mentioned in the will however, should go on the inventary regardless of value.
    • SevenOfNine
    • By SevenOfNine 15th Apr 18, 9:04 AM
    • 1,373 Posts
    • 1,381 Thanks
    SevenOfNine
    The "inventory an account" is what an administrator used to track all the assets and what happens to them.

    There is no legal requirement to give(submit) it to anybody unless told to by the court.

    estates administration act 1925(with amendments) s.25

    As the court will always say do an inventory and account if asked it is common practice to create one and distribute it to the interested parties(like residual beneficiaries) anyway.

    This should contain all known assets as soon as they are known about, there is no reason to leave anything off until later this includes the share of those passed by survivorship.
    The inventory should also include debt and credits.

    The account(ing) tracks the assets and cash to their final destination, expenses,tax, distribution etc.

    How detailed an inventory needs to be is left to the discretion of the Administrator and often items are grouped, eg personal belongings may be sufficient or broken down with more detail or only valuable items singled out. eg.
    mink coat £4,000
    other clothes 50p

    The IHT return that goes with the probate application can include information that does not have to be included on the inventory but can impact the IHT due suitable records to account for the IHT bill if any also need to be kept should a full detailed account be requested.

    the inventory used for the IHT forms can be very different to the full estate administration one, although in many cases they are close.
    The administrator may be happy for the IHT return to use "household good £XXXX"
    The beneficiaries may want a more detailed list as things are allocated to different people.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    A clear explanation.

    Isn't the full history of this is an extremely contentious one, & perhaps OP is referring to a full inventory of all the items in/on the property, not necessarily only those which fall within the estate? Eg "watches", wasn't that a case of valuable watches belonging to OP?
    Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it.
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