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  • FIRST POST
    • pjr1525
    • By pjr1525 12th Apr 18, 11:11 PM
    • 24Posts
    • 27Thanks
    pjr1525
    Incomplete vrn entered
    • #1
    • 12th Apr 18, 11:11 PM
    Incomplete vrn entered 12th Apr 18 at 11:11 PM
    Hi, this is my first post, I would appreciate some advice. I recently received a PCN through the post from a company called HX car park management stating that I had parked without a valid ticket. It supplied photos of my car entering and leaving the car park. I still had the ticket in my car confirming that I ,as an occupant of the car, had paid and not overstayed so I sent a photo of the ticket to their appeals department. They sent me an email the next day refusing my appeal saying that I had not completed the vrn and this was a breach of contract and I must pay 60 or100. I ,as an occupant of the car, had entered the first four digits of the vrn as some car parks that I have used previously required. This information positively identified the ticket related to the car on which it was displayed. In my opinion I am being charged this excessive amount for what amounts to no more than a typing error. Both myself and my wife are oaps and this represent a significant part of our pensions. I would appreciate any advice. Many thanks
    Last edited by pjr1525; 18-04-2018 at 11:23 AM. Reason: Clarification that I was no the driver
Page 3
    • Pjr1525
    • By Pjr1525 18th May 18, 7:55 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    Pjr1525
    Just realised, PE is parking eye. I'm involved with HX ppc. My user name got a bit confused when logging on.The full thread is on pjr1525 not Pjr1525. Regards
    • Redx
    • By Redx 18th May 18, 8:24 PM
    • 19,293 Posts
    • 24,535 Thanks
    Redx
    Many thanks. What is "PE". I don't believe I can control the time line I just thought (maybe naively) that I could "nip this in the bud" by letting them know that because they had not served a pofa compliant NTK, they could not hold me liable for the driver's debt. Regards.
    Originally posted by Pjr1525

    of course you can do this, that is the whole point of rebutting an LBC, but that doesnt necessarily mean they will back off , even if its HX and not PE
    Last edited by Redx; 18-05-2018 at 8:26 PM.
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Pjr1525
    • By Pjr1525 18th May 18, 8:44 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    Pjr1525
    Many thanks. Intend to give it a try. Read up about s.a.r.? on the forum. Making a list as long my arm if they don't back off. Regards.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 19th May 18, 11:17 PM
    • 61,764 Posts
    • 74,679 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Good, you can send HX a SAR after 25th May to get all data/photos held about your car (you have to state the VRN and who you are, and they might want proof of who you are before they release info).

    It's all good because it wastes a PPC's time.

    Fantastic! Let's bring some worthless PPCs down - death by SAR.

    And it gets them to have to show their hand, give you their evidence, and if they withhold anything that they then try to rely on later, you can report them to the ICO!
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Pjr1525
    • By Pjr1525 21st May 18, 7:01 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    Pjr1525
    I Would appreciate some legalise wording for letting them know their NTK was non-pofa compliant, to see what their reaction is before I send a SAR. I went through a long time line from another forumer from start to finish with HX. HX appear to have missed a step with me, straight from NTK to the second threatening letter missing out the first threatening letter. Must they follow a strict procedure?
    Also, hyperthetical question. People who are served a NTK are not obliged to name the driver, but at any time are they obliged to deny that they were the driver. Many thanks.
    Last edited by Pjr1525; 22-05-2018 at 5:38 PM. Reason: Spelling
    • Pjr1525
    • By Pjr1525 9th Jul 18, 1:48 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    Pjr1525
    Incomplete vrn entered
    Just arrived, LBC from Gladstones solicitors, had no debt collector's threats. I'm sure it's the usual LBC that they send out, 30 days to pay 160 or reply. From a parallel case on the forum I know my NTK was pofa non-compliant 9.2 (f). I sent a letter to HX more than a month ago asking them to confirm they were pursuing me as the registered keeper but received no reply. I would appreciate advice on what to do next. Regards.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 9th Jul 18, 3:28 PM
    • 19,507 Posts
    • 30,852 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Does the Gladstones reference number commence 1xxx, 3xxx or 4xxx?

    To whom is payment to be made?
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Pjr1525
    • By Pjr1525 9th Jul 18, 3:57 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    Pjr1525
    Incomplete vrn entered
    Yes, the ref begins with a 1. The end four digits begin with a 4. All payments of whatever method are to Gladstones. Thanks for prompt reply.
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 9th Jul 18, 5:09 PM
    • 19,507 Posts
    • 30,852 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    Yes, the ref begins with a 1. The end four digits begin with a 4. All payments of whatever method are to Gladstones. Thanks for prompt reply.
    Originally posted by Pjr1525
    Looks to be a pucker LBC. So deal with it now using the advice contained in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2.
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Pjr1525
    • By Pjr1525 9th Jul 18, 5:38 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    Pjr1525
    Incomplete vrn entered
    Yes, just read loadsofchildren's advice on LBC. I received no debt collection letter. The only request I sent to HX was to confirm they were pursuing me as keeper to which they did not reply. Should I send HX a SAR before replying to LBC? Regards.
    • Pjr1525
    • By Pjr1525 10th Jul 18, 1:43 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    Pjr1525
    Incomplete vrn entered
    Just sent the tear off Slip back to Gladstones, requesting paper copy as I don't intend to enter into email correspondence with them. Also sent a SAR to HX ppc. Awaiting next step.
    • Pjr1525
    • By Pjr1525 20th Jul 18, 2:39 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    Pjr1525
    Incomplete vrn entered
    Hi, just received my bumper pack from Gladstones. Obviously I will not be sending my financial details, just want to know, as long as I include reference numbers etc can I submit my rebuttal on A4 sheets?
    Also, as part of my rebuttal I will be submitting non-compliant NTK. Recently I saw an excellent reply to a solicitor on the forum regarding a non- compliant NTK were it was mentioned in no uncertain terms that courts were fed up with hearing about " Elliot and loake" as a justification for assuming the registered keeper was driving. I've searched the forum but can't seem to find it again, can anyone direct me to the post please. Many thanks
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 20th Jul 18, 4:30 PM
    • 3,209 Posts
    • 2,128 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    This was posted by Coupon-Mad a little while go and it might help, although you will have to research the links: -

    Elliott v Loake has been rebutted so many times on here and in court:

    http://www.parking-prankster.com/more-case-law.html

    VCS v Quayle is good, as is Excel v Lamoureux (featuring 'Lamilad' who posts here) and Excel v Smith, all show that Elliot v Loake (which had nothing to do with contract law, nor assuming who was driving) and CPS v AJH Films (about a company car driver being an agent of the company) have no application, and the keeper can't be held liable.
    • Pjr1525
    • By Pjr1525 26th Jul 18, 6:12 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    Pjr1525
    Incomplete vrn entered
    Hi, could anyone give some advice please. As the registered keeper I've admitted buying the ticket, but I was not the driver and have not named the driver because that person is unwell. Can they pursue me for being the person who entered the incomplete vrn or must they try and pursue the driver? Many thanks.
    Last edited by Pjr1525; 26-07-2018 at 6:15 PM.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 26th Jul 18, 6:34 PM
    • 61,764 Posts
    • 74,679 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    They can only pursue the driver, but you must make it clear in your response (pre-court, to narrow the issues about liability) that you were NOT the driver and was only a passenger on the day, and therefore you cannot be liable, because HX do not use a POFA-compliant set of documents.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Redx
    • By Redx 26th Jul 18, 8:00 PM
    • 19,293 Posts
    • 24,535 Thanks
    Redx
    yes you can use A4 printed paper for the rebuttal

    alternatively, you can email the rebuttal to one of their email addresses, maybe as a pdf or word doc , but copy yourself in as well if using email, so you can prove it was sent successfully in court

    these email addresses have been posted on this forum in other threads

    as mentioned above, be clear in your responses that you are the KEEPER and were NOT the driver on the day in question

    there is no obligation on the KEEPER to name the driver, plus the keeper isnt liable if HX failed POFA2012 , so make it very clear in the rebuttal

    ie:- I am the KEEPER , NOT THE DRIVER, its got nothing to do with me and I have no liability in law
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 26th Jul 18, 8:20 PM
    • 37,323 Posts
    • 21,513 Thanks
    Quentin
    Many thanks. What is "PE".......
    Originally posted by Pjr1525

    PE is parking eye

    A hijacker posted earlier in your thread about getting a PCN from pe

    And has caused this unnecessary confusion

    Which is why hi jackets get told to butt out and start their own thread!
    Last edited by Quentin; 26-07-2018 at 8:26 PM.
    • Pjr1525
    • By Pjr1525 26th Jul 18, 11:34 PM
    • 68 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    Pjr1525
    Incomplete vrn entered
    Many thanks for those replies. I received a 16 page reply to my SAR from the ppc containing just about everything except my inside leg measurement, copy of letter from my MP, copy of my permission to release data to him, etc, quite a comprehensive record, except the letter that I sent ( with proof of posting ) asking if they were pursuing me as registered keeper, that is conspicuously absent. I wanted to know this information so that I could sufficiently rebut any suggestion that I was the driver. Not only did they not reply to that letter, but they have not included it in the reply to my SAR.
    As part of their reply to my SAR there was a print out of the email that I sent after their initial demand for money which stated that I had paid the correct fee and provided proof, but on the top on the email print out their words had been added " Driver selected" I can only imagine that was when the decision to pursue the driver was taken. Yet they would not clarify whether they were pursuing me as the driver or registered keeper upon request! Regards.
    Last edited by Pjr1525; 26-07-2018 at 11:38 PM. Reason: Spelling
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 26th Jul 18, 11:37 PM
    • 61,764 Posts
    • 74,679 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    'driver selected' means YOU chose 'driver' in the drop-down menu when appealing, and shot your toes off in terms of the POFA.

    quite a comprehensive record, except the letter that I sent ( with proof of postage) asking if they were pursuing me as registered keeper, that is conspicuously absent.
    Send the proof of posting and ask why their data controller omitted the letter they received.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Pjr1525
    • By Pjr1525 27th Jul 18, 4:55 AM
    • 68 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    Pjr1525
    Incomplete vrn entered
    Can't remember a drop down box, but obviously there was one. If I've ticked that box it was because I believed an error had been made on their part, so there would be no need for the complication of involving another person as driver. I shall be sending a letter to their data controller asking why they omitted my letter. Many thanks.
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