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  • FIRST POST
    • LeesArt
    • By LeesArt 12th Apr 18, 8:33 PM
    • 35Posts
    • 42Thanks
    LeesArt
    MSE Energy SPAM and LIES
    • #1
    • 12th Apr 18, 8:33 PM
    MSE Energy SPAM and LIES 12th Apr 18 at 8:33 PM
    We signed up for Energy Club Alerts with MSE

    We liked the idea that we would only get an alert when there was a CHEAPER TARIFF

    In my profile it clearly says

    "When should we tell you there is a cheaper tariff"

    and the setting is

    "When I can make any saving"

    So we got a message from the energy club, we followed the link and it told us that it did NOT have anything cheaper.

    I really hate this, sending such a message creates expectation but delivers disappointment.

    I think I am going to report this to the ICO for a breach of the purpose aspect of DPA and the ASA for misleading or worse (see below)

    I made it VERY clear that we do not want to be bothered with these spammy messages

    It is REALLY disappointing as I thought that this was a trustworthy site.

    FYI here are the lies that were told


    Our Big Switch 10 event is now ON, and we've sorted two special deals that can save you £320+/year on typical use compared with a standard tariff.
    LIE, you know my tariff and my usage, I will not save £320 a year and that tariff is more than I am paying


    The variable tariff from BLAH BLAH BLAH of the big six.

    As you're currently on your provider's standard tariff, you could likely make BIG savings by switching,
    LIE, no not likely at all to save big or even ANY saving at all



    and you won't have to worry about exit fees.
    HUGE LIE!

    The main MSE Newsletter talks about the same deal:

    - Leave early & there are £70 dual-fuel exit fees (£35 single fuel).
    - Some existing EDF custs will be charged early exit penalties if they switch to it, depending on their current deal.


Page 1
    • wavelets
    • By wavelets 13th Apr 18, 12:11 AM
    • 171 Posts
    • 57 Thanks
    wavelets
    • #2
    • 13th Apr 18, 12:11 AM
    • #2
    • 13th Apr 18, 12:11 AM
    I suggest, once you compose yourself, you re-acquaint yourself with these that you agreed to abide by

    9.2.2 Covers what messages you actually agreed to receive, and how to stop it if you later change your mind
    • LeesArt
    • By LeesArt 13th Apr 18, 2:27 AM
    • 35 Posts
    • 42 Thanks
    LeesArt
    • #3
    • 13th Apr 18, 2:27 AM
    • #3
    • 13th Apr 18, 2:27 AM
    1. You can't make a term or condition that contravenes UK Law

    2. Does it have one in there that says they can lie about no exit fees

    A reply like yours makes me even more determined to report them rather than waste my time here.
    • Dobbibill
    • By Dobbibill 13th Apr 18, 6:52 AM
    • 2,907 Posts
    • 3,901 Thanks
    Dobbibill
    • #4
    • 13th Apr 18, 6:52 AM
    • #4
    • 13th Apr 18, 6:52 AM
    If you are 49 days away from the end of your fixed contract, you do not pay the exit fees.

    If you are on a standard tariff, you may not be liable for exit fees at all.

    Have you tried any other comparison sites to cross reference whether or not you can save money.

    You are free to leave CEC at any time.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Energy, Student Money Saving, UK Armed Forces and
    Local Money Saving - Wales boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge posts there.
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.


    It's not about being the best -
    It's about being better than you were yesterday.
    • LeesArt
    • By LeesArt 13th Apr 18, 10:46 AM
    • 35 Posts
    • 42 Thanks
    LeesArt
    • #5
    • 13th Apr 18, 10:46 AM
    • #5
    • 13th Apr 18, 10:46 AM
    I read that as for existing Eon customers:

    "- Some existing EDF custs will be charged early exit penalties if they switch to it, depending on their current deal."

    But the MSE Misleading email says

    "and you won't have to worry about exit fees."

    but the promoted plan terms are

    "- Leave early & there are £70 dual-fuel exit fees (£35 single fuel)."


    What we will see down the road is people saying that they got an email from MSE and signed up because of the promise in the email of no exit fees when it is the absolute opposite.
    • Oadbylad
    • By Oadbylad 13th Apr 18, 10:54 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Oadbylad
    • #6
    • 13th Apr 18, 10:54 AM
    • #6
    • 13th Apr 18, 10:54 AM
    Also ive noticed that all the offers ive received dont have the winter warm discount, so if i was to apply to save £95 i would then lose my £140 ????
    ITS NOT A SAVING IS IT?
    • PaschalFun
    • By PaschalFun 13th Apr 18, 11:42 AM
    • 178 Posts
    • 50 Thanks
    PaschalFun
    • #7
    • 13th Apr 18, 11:42 AM
    • #7
    • 13th Apr 18, 11:42 AM
    1. You can't make a term or condition that contravenes UK Law
    Originally posted by LeesArt
    No.
    Which specific term do you consider contravenes UK Law?
    And which UK Law do you consider it contravenes?
    2. Does it have one in there that says they can lie about no exit fees
    Originally posted by LeesArt
    Have you not read them? You agreed you had.
    Where are MSE lying about exit fees?
    There are no exit fees applicable to a suppliers standard variable tariff, including customers of EDF who are on their standard variable tariff.

    A reply like yours makes me even more determined to report them rather than waste my time here.
    Originally posted by LeesArt
    You are clearly on a mission, so donít let me stop you.
    • Blackbeard of Perranporth
    • By Blackbeard of Perranporth 13th Apr 18, 1:06 PM
    • 4,940 Posts
    • 29,962 Thanks
    Blackbeard of Perranporth
    • #8
    • 13th Apr 18, 1:06 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Apr 18, 1:06 PM
    Brilliant, I'm popping to the tea bar and getting another cuppa and a biscuit for this one!
    Commemorate Celebrate Inspire
    #RAF100 A century of service!
    • singhini
    • By singhini 13th Apr 18, 2:39 PM
    • 331 Posts
    • 197 Thanks
    singhini
    • #9
    • 13th Apr 18, 2:39 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Apr 18, 2:39 PM
    Brilliant, I'm popping to the tea bar and getting another cuppa and a biscuit for this one!
    Originally posted by Blackbeard of Perranporth
    I wish not to disappoint but I don't think the OP will be returning (logic would dictate that if the person is so unhappy they surely would have stopped all communications from MSE and deleted their account with them).


    I hope I am wrong, as I'm interested to see the original source of the quote in post #1 where it states "blah blah blah" (for it to be a quote it most surely come directly from an original source)?
    • Xbigman
    • By Xbigman 13th Apr 18, 3:49 PM
    • 3,057 Posts
    • 1,302 Thanks
    Xbigman
    If you sign up for alerts for ANY savings I don't think you can call it spam when you get a lot of alerts for minimal or non existent savings.
    Likewise the definition of savings is legally required by OfGem to be calculated a certain way. So if you see a headline saying you can save £320 a year, but you already save £330 over standard tariffs then that tariff is £10 dearer but it does not legally invalidate the £320 statement.

    Energy comparisons are a right old game. Learn the rules and calm down.



    Darren
    Xbigman's guide to a happy life.

    Eat properly
    Sleep properly
    Save some money
    • Willow92
    • By Willow92 13th Apr 18, 5:04 PM
    • 2,122 Posts
    • 13,093 Thanks
    Willow92
    I think I'm gonna grab some popcorn and see how this goes on...
    Savings £5,848 £/7,000
    • LeesArt
    • By LeesArt 13th Apr 18, 8:53 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 42 Thanks
    LeesArt
    I wish not to disappoint but I don't think the OP will be returning (logic would dictate that if the person is so unhappy they surely would have stopped all communications from MSE and deleted their account with them).


    I hope I am wrong, as I'm interested to see the original source of the quote in post #1 where it states "blah blah blah" (for it to be a quote it most surely come directly from an original source)?
    Originally posted by singhini
    Sorry to disappoint but I am not going anywhere.

    When I see an organisation in the wrong I stand up and challenge them to their face.

    I do this to give them a chance to explain.

    I do not rely on the comments of others, I would not have made the post if I did not have the facts.

    The blah blah was for your benefit, the key parts Ihad a problem with are quoted along with the contradicting terms of the offer from the newsletter that was the same thing the email was promoting.

    It is only by pointing out this bad behaviour that it keeps a company in line.

    Hopefully avoiding reporting.
    • LeesArt
    • By LeesArt 13th Apr 18, 9:00 PM
    • 35 Posts
    • 42 Thanks
    LeesArt
    If you sign up for alerts for ANY savings I don't think you can call it spam when you get a lot of alerts for minimal or non existent savings.
    Likewise the definition of savings is legally required by OfGem to be calculated a certain way. So if you see a headline saying you can save £320 a year, but you already save £330 over standard tariffs then that tariff is £10 dearer but it does not legally invalidate the £320 statement.

    Energy comparisons are a right old game. Learn the rules and calm down.

    Darren
    Originally posted by Xbigman
    Thanks for your considered reply, the thing is there is no saving, it is a negative, so not a saving at all.

    The whole point of the energy club is that you put your supplier and tariff in and it tells you (subject to your settings) when you can pay less than you are paying.

    Previously I had it set to send me details of any offer, but it was too much so I set it to only email me when I could save.

    Considering I have taken the time to enter my data it knows what I am paying and after the hassle of logging it clearly shows that it DOES know. So it should not have sent the message.

    Drilling down I then found the lies.

    Maybe you are right it is a game, but companies that make money promoting offers have duty of care not to mislead or downright lie, just to make a commission.
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 14th Apr 18, 8:38 AM
    • 5,585 Posts
    • 3,425 Thanks
    Hengus
    They are following the rules set by the Regulator which is a non Ministerial Government Department. that said, I agree that the assumptions that underpin the savings are flawed for consumers on fixed price tariffs with less than 12 months to run.

    I took a promoter of a collective switch to the ASA last year as they were promoting their switch by saying that Miss A saved £379 on her energy bill a year ago, and would do the same again this year if she switched again. The ASA responded by saying that if the savings followed Ofgem guidelines then there was nothing that they could do about it.
    • LeesArt
    • By LeesArt 14th Apr 18, 9:17 AM
    • 35 Posts
    • 42 Thanks
    LeesArt
    Thanks Hengus, that is crazy!

    In this situation there are two misleading aspects of the suggestion of no exit fees.

    One is the exit fees that you refer to for clients on fixed term tariffs.

    However, the 2 year deal promoted also has the exit fees referred to in my OP.

    I can see how they could be confused by the case you referred to the ASA as it was subjective, (if Miss A's deal was coming to an end would she revert to a standard tariff and so then be able to make the suggested savings.

    Regardless of OFGEM rules there are general ASA rules about misleading, particularly when the very thing you use to promote the deal (no exit fees) are the opposite of what has been suggested.
    • Hengus
    • By Hengus 14th Apr 18, 9:33 AM
    • 5,585 Posts
    • 3,425 Thanks
    Hengus
    Thanks Hengus, that is crazy!

    In this situation there are two misleading aspects of the suggestion of no exit fees.

    One is the exit fees that you refer to for clients on fixed term tariffs.

    However, the 2 year deal promoted also has the exit fees referred to in my OP.

    I can see how they could be confused by the case you referred to the ASA as it was subjective, (if Miss A's deal was coming to an end would she revert to a standard tariff and so then be able to make the suggested savings.

    Regardless of OFGEM rules there are general ASA rules about misleading, particularly when the very thing you use to promote the deal (no exit fees) are the opposite of what has been suggested.
    Originally posted by LeesArt
    The argument is that PCWs are just using the rolling 12 months cost projection as prescribed THEN by Ofgem. I believe that following an Ofgem review late last year that PCWs can now use different methods of savings calculations provided they are used consistently across the website. For example, MSE CEC now uses the 'cost of present tariff for 12 months' compared to 'costs for 12 months on these tariffs' alongside the Ofgem methodology. That said, it would seem that the messages sent out by MSE CEC use the old Ofgem cost method. I confess that I get these messages from time-to-time and I just ignore them.
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 14th Apr 18, 1:55 PM
    • 27,269 Posts
    • 13,349 Thanks
    Cardew
    If you consider the CEC so shocking that you are prepared to devote so much time and effort in bringing them to task, why not get your teeth into this organisation:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5141494

    Now they really deserve large red text!
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