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  • FIRST POST
    • taking time
    • By taking time 12th Apr 18, 8:02 PM
    • 14Posts
    • 4Thanks
    taking time
    UKPC wrong reg on NTK, double yellows, permit,
    • #1
    • 12th Apr 18, 8:02 PM
    UKPC wrong reg on NTK, double yellows, permit, 12th Apr 18 at 8:02 PM
    Hi
    Sorry to do this but I wanted to double check my appeal. It's a UKPC ticket was left on the windscreen with wrong reg (2 digits wrong - and it's a non exsistant number plate).
    I was parked on double yellows, partly. I had work permit on car. It's a public road. We have work car parks but I wasnt in it.
    Used standard initial appeal, saying wrong reg, not my car and I am not saying I was the driver. Asked POPLA code, they have not sent it.
    They have sent NTK on about day 45. Now I think I should have just left it but read they would send NtK anyway, but now it seems they dont have my details as reg is still wrong on NTK!

    Shalll I just re-appeal asking for popla code ie

    Thank you very much

    --------

    Your ref: xxxxxxx


    Dear Sir/Madam,
    FORMAL APPEAL TO NOTICE TO KEEPER, UNDER THE POFA 2012

    This is my appeal.

    I am not the registered keeper of the car mentioned in your Notice to Keeper that was dated xx/xx/2013. The driver will not be divulged so don't ask and don't pretend you have the powers to insist. You don't.

    My appeal is based on these facts:

    - I have now obtained the 'PCN' ticket which was placed on the windscreen and I see that this does not have the correct car registration on it, so it is a nullity. As such, no Notice to Driver was ever properly served.

    - your Notice to Keeper (NTK) wording is not compliant with Schedule 4 of the POFA 2012 and I will leave you to check where the flaws lie in your own Notice.

    - And as there was no PCN (Notice to Driver) served on my car due to the wrong registration error by your operative, your NTK would have had to arrive before day 15 to be properly served. However UKPC have treated this incident as if there was a NTD issued and have waited to issue the NTK, which is now too late and fails to meet the strict criteria within the POFA 2012.

    LEAVE THIS POINT OUT BELOW??? AS IT SAYS IT WAS MY CAR REALLY?? AND IT WAS ON A PUBLIC ROAD
    - the car is covered by a permit so the driver was not trespassing and there was no loss nor damage caused by the parking event. Under the BPA CoP, a PCN for 'breach of terms' (as you allege) must only be a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

    - UKPC is a mere agent who does not own the land, so you have no standing to make any contracts with drivers nor to pursue these charges in your name. If you allege you do, then you will need to show your landowner/client contract to POPLA and myself at the second stage appeal.

    I invite you to cancel this charge since you can see that you have no cause to pursue it now that I have pointed out the flaws. As there exists only a flawed Notice to Keeper and a nullity of a Notice to Driver, I am not liable in law. But under the BPA CoP, clause 22.14, you must consider appeals from registered keepers because they are entitled to appeal to POPLA.

    So if after careful consideration you decide to reject this appeal, you must send me a POPLA code without further ado, as was reminded to the BPA in the recent POPLA Newsletter (Nov 2013). Or you can confirm that the charge is cancelled.

    yours,


    REGISTERED KEEPER'S NAME
Page 1
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 12th Apr 18, 8:29 PM
    • 11,419 Posts
    • 11,947 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #2
    • 12th Apr 18, 8:29 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Apr 18, 8:29 PM
    They have sent NTK on about day 45. Now I think I should have just left it but read they would send NtK anyway, but now it seems they dont have my details as reg is still wrong on NTK!
    Of course they have the right registration number.
    How do you think they managed to get your name and address from the DVLA without supplying the DVLA with the reg no of your vehicle?

    Are you sure the vehicle was parked on a public road?
    If that's the case, then you are best advised to post on Pepipoo's forums because we tend to concentrate on private parking here. You will need to signin with a non-hotmail email address there.
    .
    • taking time
    • By taking time 12th Apr 18, 8:45 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    taking time
    • #3
    • 12th Apr 18, 8:45 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Apr 18, 8:45 PM
    Stupid question but as far as I know it's a public road. You just drive into the area
    No barriers except for the staff car park which I was not in. The council put in the speed bumps etc.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 12th Apr 18, 8:52 PM
    • 11,419 Posts
    • 11,947 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #4
    • 12th Apr 18, 8:52 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Apr 18, 8:52 PM
    Then where is it?

    Can you post a google street view image?
    .
    • peter_the_piper
    • By peter_the_piper 12th Apr 18, 8:53 PM
    • 26,534 Posts
    • 36,167 Thanks
    peter_the_piper
    • #5
    • 12th Apr 18, 8:53 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Apr 18, 8:53 PM
    Best check with the local council to ensure it is in public ownership.
    I'd rather be an Optimist and be proved wrong than a Pessimist and be proved right.
    • taking time
    • By taking time 12th Apr 18, 9:49 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    taking time
    • #6
    • 12th Apr 18, 9:49 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Apr 18, 9:49 PM
    Hi, looking into it more, the land is owned by the council, and the organisations lease it (100+ years lease). The road I was on is un named so I guess that would indicate it's a private road. Thank you
    • Redx
    • By Redx 12th Apr 18, 9:52 PM
    • 20,477 Posts
    • 25,827 Thanks
    Redx
    • #7
    • 12th Apr 18, 9:52 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Apr 18, 9:52 PM
    which is why UKPC ticketed the vehicle and not the council CEO staff

    private road , so somebody who leases it has employed the par@sites known as UKPC
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • taking time
    • By taking time 12th Apr 18, 9:59 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    taking time
    • #8
    • 12th Apr 18, 9:59 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Apr 18, 9:59 PM
    Thank you, is my appeal to them above ok? thanks. In light of the VRN situation - the reg is wrong on windscreen ticket and NTK,

    thank you
    • Redx
    • By Redx 12th Apr 18, 10:01 PM
    • 20,477 Posts
    • 25,827 Thanks
    Redx
    • #9
    • 12th Apr 18, 10:01 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Apr 18, 10:01 PM
    leave out anything identifying the driver

    I believe that the appeal about the incorrect VRM details on both tickets is best left for popla , as you dont want them sending out an amended PCN at this stage, you want it to go past day 56 but appeal the NTK as keeper within the 28 day deadline

    dont help them out with their mistakes
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 12th Apr 18, 10:02 PM
    • 11,419 Posts
    • 11,947 Thanks
    KeithP
    Have you considered just sending the template appeal from post #1 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread?
    .
    • taking time
    • By taking time 12th Apr 18, 10:25 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    taking time
    Have you considered just sending the template appeal from post #1 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread?
    Originally posted by KeithP
    Hi, yes that's what I did, pretty much except adding in about it not being my car on the VRN, and they have sent the NTK to me.
    • taking time
    • By taking time 30th Apr 18, 9:54 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    taking time
    Appealing to POPLA now, feedback please, thank you
    Hi, I have the POPLA code now and the reply from UKPC (NTK) still has the wrong reg. From the photo angle you cant see what the correct reg is. Will appeal to POPLA as below. I would be grateful for any coments thank you.

    FYI I was parked under the sign, on a double yellow (partly), with my work permit displayed. The reg no they have is for a car that does not exsist.

    Appeal re POPLA code: xxxxxxx –xxxxxxx xxxxxxx v UKPC

    1) The Parking windscreen ticket and UKPC Notice to Keeper were for a vehicle which is unknown to me, not owned by me and for which I am not the registered keeper.

    ---photo within PDF----

    2) The signs are not prominent, clear or legible from all parking spaces. The signs were contradictory and crowded with different terms, so this is not an example of‘plain intelligible language’, contrary to the Consumer Rights Act 2015:[link] Requirement for transparency(1) A trader must ensure that a written term of a consumer contract, or a consumer notice in writing, is transparent. (2) A consumer notice is transparent for the purposes of subsection (1) if it is expressed in plain and intelligible language and it is legible. It is submitted that the driver did not have a fair opportunity to read any terms involving this huge charge, which is out of all proportion and not saved by the dissimilar 'ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis' case where the terms were concise and far clearer with no tariff lists which is the primary prominent information on the board. In the Beavis case, the signs were unusually clear. The Supreme Court were keen to point out within hours of their decision that it related to that car park and those signs and facts only so it certainly does not supersede any other appeal/defence about a different car park:- [link] terms appear to be displayed inadequately at the machine, where only the tariffs are in comparatively large font. I put the operator to strict proof as to the size of the wording of the terms, which seem to be no larger than .40 font size going by this guide:- [] evidence that this is inadequate notice, Letter Height Visibility is discussed here:- [l] designing your sign, consider how you will be using it, as well as how far away the readers you want to impact will be. For example, if you are placing a sales advertisement inside your retail store, your text only needs to be visible to the people in the store. However, if you...want drivers on a nearby highway to be able to see them, design your letters at 3” or even larger.''...and the same chart is reproduced here:- [link] designing an outdoor sign for your business keep in mind the readability of the letters. Letters always look smaller when mounted high onto an outdoor wall''. ''...a guideline for selecting sign letters. Multiply the letter height by 10 and that is the best viewing distance in feet. Multiply the best viewing distance by 4 and that is the max viewing distance.''Under Lord Denning's Red Hand Rule, the parking terms should have been simpler and effectively: 'in red letters with a red hand pointing to it' - i.e. VERY clear, concise and prominent in large lettering, as was found to be the case in the car park in 'Beavis'.I put this operator to strict proof of where the car was parked and how their signs appeared on that date, at that time, from the angle of the driver's perspective when parked. Equally, I require this operator to show how the entrance signs appear from a driver's seat, not stock examples of 'the sign' in isolation/close-up. END
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 30th Apr 18, 10:01 PM
    • 64,896 Posts
    • 77,478 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    the reply from UKPC (NTK)
    A reply to an appeal is not in itself a NTK.

    Google images will show you a UKPC Notice to Keeper photo - did you get one?
    • taking time
    • By taking time 1st May 18, 8:40 AM
    • 14 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    taking time
    Ntk
    Hi thank you. Yes I should have been clearer. I emailed my appeal as the guidelines re timing. They then sent a reply with no popla number. Also then sent ntk in the post arrived on day 45.

    I repeated my appeal and being insistent about popla code and they sent it.

    Reg is wrong, non exsistant reg on all docs. I was worried after reading that UKPC always pursue but if I had no appealed they never would have known who I was (face palm)

    Thank you very much
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 1st May 18, 1:37 PM
    • 64,896 Posts
    • 77,478 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    The reg no they have is for a car that does not exist.
    OK, so I would now email Steve Clark at the BPA and ask him to investigate this data misuse:

    steve.c@britishparking.co.uk

    UKPC are not the favourite PPC at the BPA right now!

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2018/04/ukpc-banned-by-dvla.html
    • taking time
    • By taking time 1st May 18, 4:12 PM
    • 14 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    taking time
    Misuse of data
    Thank you. Do you mean that they have got my address from the DVLA but the vrn is wrong? I think maybe I gave my address when originally appealing. will check. It was by email as recommended.


    Is my appeal to POPLA Ok?
    Thank you very much
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