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  • FIRST POST
    • markyyyyyy
    • By markyyyyyy 12th Apr 18, 5:46 PM
    • 63Posts
    • 9Thanks
    markyyyyyy
    wife offered job but no contract during probationary period
    • #1
    • 12th Apr 18, 5:46 PM
    wife offered job but no contract during probationary period 12th Apr 18 at 5:46 PM
    Hi,

    my wife is due to start a new job in July, and has received an offer letter from the new company.

    Prior to handing in her notice with her current employer, she has asked for a contract from the new employers.

    They have today got in touch saying that there will be no contract until her 3 month probationary period is over.

    To my understanding, there should be a contract in place right from the word go (with a probationary period included in that) - am i correct in this assumption?

    She will be setting up some background systems as part of the role, and what we don't want is for the employer to get rid of her once she has got the systems up and running.

    thank you for any input
    Savings aim for 2012: 5000 = 416.60 per month

    Current Savings excluding M&G Investments (18/11/11):
    Britannia: 5334

    Total Aim for 31/12/12: 10,334
Page 1
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 12th Apr 18, 5:59 PM
    • 10,898 Posts
    • 9,193 Thanks
    lincroft1710
    • #2
    • 12th Apr 18, 5:59 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Apr 18, 5:59 PM
    She will be setting up some background systems as part of the role, and what we don't want is for the employer to get rid of her once she has got the systems up and running.
    Originally posted by markyyyyyy
    During the first 2 years of employment, an employee may be dismissed without reason. But the dismissal must not be because of a protected characteristic
    • markyyyyyy
    • By markyyyyyy 12th Apr 18, 6:10 PM
    • 63 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    markyyyyyy
    • #3
    • 12th Apr 18, 6:10 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Apr 18, 6:10 PM
    During the first 2 years of employment, an employee may be dismissed without reason. But the dismissal must not be because of a protected characteristic
    Originally posted by lincroft1710
    thanks for your reply
    what do you mean by a protected characteristic in terms of this situation?
    Last edited by markyyyyyy; 12-04-2018 at 6:15 PM.
    Savings aim for 2012: 5000 = 416.60 per month

    Current Savings excluding M&G Investments (18/11/11):
    Britannia: 5334

    Total Aim for 31/12/12: 10,334
    • lincroft1710
    • By lincroft1710 12th Apr 18, 6:37 PM
    • 10,898 Posts
    • 9,193 Thanks
    lincroft1710
    • #4
    • 12th Apr 18, 6:37 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Apr 18, 6:37 PM
    If someone was dismissed because of their gender, race, religion, sexual orientation,or a disability. This does not mean that people with these characteristics cannot be dismissed just that it isn't because of the characteristic.
    • LilElvis
    • By LilElvis 12th Apr 18, 6:39 PM
    • 3,734 Posts
    • 10,188 Thanks
    LilElvis
    • #5
    • 12th Apr 18, 6:39 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Apr 18, 6:39 PM
    thanks for your reply
    what do you mean by a protected characteristic in terms of this situation?
    Originally posted by markyyyyyy
    Race, sex etc

    Whilst you don't need a written contract I personally wouldn't accept a job without one and definitely wouldn't hand my notice in with my current employer until I had a signed copy in my possession.
    • Sncjw
    • By Sncjw 12th Apr 18, 6:48 PM
    • 1,894 Posts
    • 1,119 Thanks
    Sncjw
    • #6
    • 12th Apr 18, 6:48 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Apr 18, 6:48 PM
    Why does the current employer need contract of new one. I!!!8217;ve never heard this before.
    • markyyyyyy
    • By markyyyyyy 12th Apr 18, 7:01 PM
    • 63 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    markyyyyyy
    • #7
    • 12th Apr 18, 7:01 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Apr 18, 7:01 PM
    Why does the current employer need contract of new one. I!!!8217;ve never heard this before.
    Originally posted by Sncjw

    i mean that my wife wants a contract from her new employer before handing in her notice
    Savings aim for 2012: 5000 = 416.60 per month

    Current Savings excluding M&G Investments (18/11/11):
    Britannia: 5334

    Total Aim for 31/12/12: 10,334
    • keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • By keepcalmandstayoutofdebt 12th Apr 18, 7:10 PM
    • 3,329 Posts
    • 1,735 Thanks
    keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • #8
    • 12th Apr 18, 7:10 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Apr 18, 7:10 PM
    Yes hold in out for something in writing you are happy with.

    To much 'third party' employment going on - well that's what happened to me when I just thought the current were laxe not letting me know of policies and I didn't seem to have much in way of particulars - 3 months on and at the same time roughly as apparently 'probation passed' and a lot of grief I learnt who I thought was paying my wage was not correct at all. Couldn't believe it but of course all of a sudden it makes sense.
    "If you are caught in a rainstorm, once you accept that you'll receive a soaking, the only thing left to do is enjoy the walk"
    • bugslet
    • By bugslet 12th Apr 18, 7:43 PM
    • 6,286 Posts
    • 30,054 Thanks
    bugslet
    • #9
    • 12th Apr 18, 7:43 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Apr 18, 7:43 PM
    Hi,

    my wife is due to start a new job in July, and has received an offer letter from the new company.

    Prior to handing in her notice with her current employer, she has asked for a contract from the new employers.

    They have today got in touch saying that there will be no contract until her 3 month probationary period is over.

    To my understanding, there should be a contract in place right from the word go (with a probationary period included in that) - am i correct in this assumption?

    She will be setting up some background systems as part of the role, and what we don't want is for the employer to get rid of her once she has got the systems up and running.

    thank you for any input
    Originally posted by markyyyyyy
    AIUI a written contract doesn't have to be supplied. A written statement with the major points in should be supplied within the two months.

    I don't do a contract until about a month in, just in case someone finds the job is not for them.
    Last edited by bugslet; 13-04-2018 at 7:42 AM.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 12th Apr 18, 9:53 PM
    • 32,708 Posts
    • 19,689 Thanks
    getmore4less
    The contract exists from day one.

    why would an employer not tell the employee what T&C they are expecting them to work to.

    you can do it with a combination of a simple letter and a set of standard docs that everyone works too so you don't even need to use any paper they can be electronic.


    As a potential employee you get as much as you can in writing that forms the contract until told something else and can override the standard terms, you can go back as far as the advert for the job and can put stuff your acceptance letter that will form part of hte contract.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 13th Apr 18, 1:14 AM
    • 38,892 Posts
    • 35,721 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    we'll write a letter confirming your appointment, start date, salary and hours before you start, plus usually conditional on references. If asked, we'll confirm references are OK.

    Statement of t&c legally required within 8 weeks, I believe, but no really effective remedy if it doesn't appear ...
    Still knitting!
    Completed: 1 adult cardigan, 3 baby jumpers, 3 shawls, 1 sweat band, 3 pairs baby bootees,
    1 Wise Man Knitivity figure + 1 sheep, 2 pairs socks, 2 hats 2 balaclavas for seamen, 1 balaclava for myself ...
    Current projects: Poppies, mohair cardigan pattern arrived and going strong!
    • bugslet
    • By bugslet 13th Apr 18, 7:46 AM
    • 6,286 Posts
    • 30,054 Thanks
    bugslet
    The contract exists from day one.

    why would an employer not tell the employee what T&C they are expecting them to work to.

    you can do it with a combination of a simple letter and a set of standard docs that everyone works too so you don't even need to use any paper they can be electronic.


    As a potential employee you get as much as you can in writing that forms the contract until told something else and can override the standard terms, you can go back as far as the advert for the job and can put stuff your acceptance letter that will form part of hte contract.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    As with savvy sue's post, we will give them a letter confirming their start date, pay, basic outline of work. But I just don't do a full contract until 4-5 weeks after start date.
    • marlot
    • By marlot 13th Apr 18, 8:38 AM
    • 3,577 Posts
    • 2,698 Thanks
    marlot
    ...To my understanding, there should be a contract in place right from the word go (with a probationary period included in that) - am i correct in this assumption?

    She will be setting up some background systems as part of the role, and what we don't want is for the employer to get rid of her once she has got the systems up and running....
    Originally posted by markyyyyyy
    There is a contract in place from the beginning - but with a load of terms that your wife doesn't know about - and she might not have agreed with if she'd known before she started.

    Most employers don't realise it, but they have a mind set of treating people as resources. This starts with the concept that they have something of value 'the job', to which they invite applicants. Applicants are expected to put in lots of time applying, but can be rejected without even a thank you.

    It can also show at interviews, when a token 2 minutes can be left at the end of the interview for questions you may have of them.

    The lack of a contract is another example of this unequal relationship. If the employment doesn't work out you can be dismissed - which for you is the loss of 100% of your income. But for the employer it is likely to be much less of an impact.

    As a job seeker you have to work out whether you trust the employer and are prepared to take the chance. I had an offer a few years ago where I decided I didn't quite trust the employer. They were a bit evasive when I asked some questions about how they worked. I turned their offer down despite it being a payrise and nearer home.

    When I interview, I make time for people to do a tour of our development areas, so the potential employee can see where they would be working, what our approach is, etc. This tour is led by someone who would be one of their peers, and it is made clear to both parties that they can discuss freely and that it isn't part of the selection process. I also have a blank standard contract available if people want to see it.
    Last edited by marlot; 13-04-2018 at 8:43 AM.
    • Mulder00
    • By Mulder00 14th Apr 18, 7:18 PM
    • 488 Posts
    • 431 Thanks
    Mulder00
    If she had to sign acceptance of the offer, then that's as good as a contract. How much info is in her offer letter? My offer letter at my current company was actually much more detailed than any employment contract I've signed before.
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