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    • Willow1976
    • By Willow1976 12th Apr 18, 1:38 PM
    • 5Posts
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    Willow1976
    PIP Downgrade - advice please
    • #1
    • 12th Apr 18, 1:38 PM
    PIP Downgrade - advice please 12th Apr 18 at 1:38 PM
    My husband has Retinitis Pigmentosa and is sadly in the advanced stages (very little useful eyesight left). He had a pip award for both the higher mobility and the higher living. We got a renewal form a year before the end of the award and put no change down for all the questions and submitted 2 good reports from his consultant and social worker. However someone has decided he only gets 10 points for living not 12 and has downgraded him (still gets the higher mobility). The award has been extended to 2020 but means we will have to go through this again in around 18months!
    Since submitting he has been suffering from panic attacks and is on anti-depressants and I am trying to get him to have some counselling (he very rarely leaves the house) Is it worth asking for a Mandatory Reconsideration and mentioning this - would they award points for this? It seems very harsh to me, his condition is only going to get worse and there is no cure.
Page 1
    • w06
    • By w06 12th Apr 18, 1:50 PM
    • 525 Posts
    • 793 Thanks
    w06
    • #2
    • 12th Apr 18, 1:50 PM
    • #2
    • 12th Apr 18, 1:50 PM
    What did he score 'points' on in the descriptors and which points did he think he should score poitns on?
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 12th Apr 18, 1:55 PM
    • 1,942 Posts
    • 2,237 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    • #3
    • 12th Apr 18, 1:55 PM
    • #3
    • 12th Apr 18, 1:55 PM
    What did he score 'points' on in the descriptors and which points did he think he should score poitns on?
    Originally posted by w06
    Exactly.

    You & he need to decide what additional points should have been awarded.
    https://www.gov.uk/disability-premiums-income-support/eligibility

    And then build a compelling case to show why the 12 (plus) points should have been awarded.
    Medical evidence relating directly to the relevant descriptor(s) helps, if you do appeal it.
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/665635/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-assessment-criteria.pdf
    • Willow1976
    • By Willow1976 12th Apr 18, 2:00 PM
    • 5 Posts
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    Willow1976
    • #4
    • 12th Apr 18, 2:00 PM
    • #4
    • 12th Apr 18, 2:00 PM
    he got no points for socialising (face to face) - would the fact he suffers with panic attacks when out in public but enough?
    • w06
    • By w06 12th Apr 18, 2:01 PM
    • 525 Posts
    • 793 Thanks
    w06
    • #5
    • 12th Apr 18, 2:01 PM
    • #5
    • 12th Apr 18, 2:01 PM
    It might but, I had the impression he developed those after he made the PIP renewal, if that's so for them to be included he'd need to tell them his health had changed and have a new assessment of his needs
    • Willow1976
    • By Willow1976 12th Apr 18, 2:12 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Willow1976
    • #6
    • 12th Apr 18, 2:12 PM
    • #6
    • 12th Apr 18, 2:12 PM
    Ok Thanks, we will call and mention it to them. I was just wondering if anyone was aware that points could be awarded for this.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 12th Apr 18, 2:14 PM
    • 2,418 Posts
    • 2,381 Thanks
    poppy12345
    • #7
    • 12th Apr 18, 2:14 PM
    • #7
    • 12th Apr 18, 2:14 PM
    Ok Thanks, we will call and mention it to them. I was just wondering if anyone was aware that points could be awarded for this.
    Originally posted by Willow1976
    As has been stated, was this mentioned on the PIP review form or at the assessment? If it wasn't then they won't take it into consideration for the MR.
    • Danday
    • By Danday 12th Apr 18, 2:17 PM
    • 346 Posts
    • 59 Thanks
    Danday
    • #8
    • 12th Apr 18, 2:17 PM
    • #8
    • 12th Apr 18, 2:17 PM
    Ok Thanks, we will call and mention it to them. I was just wondering if anyone was aware that points could be awarded for this.
    Originally posted by Willow1976
    For PIP points are not awarded because of having an illness/disability/condition.
    Points are only awarded for the relevant descriptors that would apply, and proven to apply in respect of the difficulties he faces because of that condition.
    • poppy12345
    • By poppy12345 12th Apr 18, 2:18 PM
    • 2,418 Posts
    • 2,381 Thanks
    poppy12345
    • #9
    • 12th Apr 18, 2:18 PM
    • #9
    • 12th Apr 18, 2:18 PM
    Any MR request should be put in writing rather than through a phone call. Bear in mind that they would look at the whole award again, so he does risk losing everything he already has.
    • pmlindyloo
    • By pmlindyloo 12th Apr 18, 2:19 PM
    • 11,404 Posts
    • 13,291 Thanks
    pmlindyloo
    Since he originally had enhanced daily living PIP what points weren't awarded this time?

    This may make it easier to challenge and find the evidence that is still relevant.
    • Willow1976
    • By Willow1976 12th Apr 18, 2:27 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Willow1976
    right ok - will have to take a look at where he lost points and try and argue the case. Sorry we are new to all this and finding it a complete minefield. Life is rubbish enough right now without this adding to it.
    • Willow1976
    • By Willow1976 12th Apr 18, 2:31 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Willow1976
    Thank you - have checked and they definitely took points for dressing. he can't do small buttons and zips (takes ages) but they decided he could.
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 12th Apr 18, 3:44 PM
    • 1,942 Posts
    • 2,237 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    Thank you - have checked and they definitely took points for dressing. he can't do small buttons and zips (takes ages) but they decided he could.
    Originally posted by Willow1976
    If it takes him twice as long to do an activity because of his disability, then he should be assessed as not being able to to this in a reasonable time period and points should be awarded.

    From page 78 od the assessors guide:
    "In a reasonable time period
    2.2.20 Reasonable time period means no more than twice as long as the
    maximum period that a non-disabled person would normally take to
    complete that activity.

    2.2.21 The following situations highlight examples where an individual may
    be considered unable to complete a descriptor in a reasonable time
    period due to their approach or the impact their health condition or
    impairment has on them:
    An individual who becomes breathless and exhausted whilst
    washing and dressing, and needs two hours to complete these
    tasks
    An individual who is physically capable of preparing a meal but
    whose need for formalised ritual means they take all morning to
    prepare breakfast.
    Someone who, as a result of their health condition, has
    obsessive ideas around cleanliness and takes considerably
    prolonged periods of time to complete activities..........

    The Benefits & Work site has a good guide on appeals:
    https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/
    Membership costs c.20 per year and gets access to their guides.
    If you are going to challenge the award, it is worth considering.
    • Nannytone
    • By Nannytone 12th Apr 18, 4:06 PM
    • 48 Posts
    • 107 Thanks
    Nannytone
    I also have advanced RP and am currently awaiting a decision from my transfer from DLA to Pip.

    Because of that I have no useful information to pass on regarding benefits but just wanted to ask if he has considered applying for a guide dog?

    It would do wonders for his confidence as well as allow him a degree of Independence. I have had my dog for 2 years and can't begin to tell you the difference she has made to my life/B]
    • Danday
    • By Danday 12th Apr 18, 5:26 PM
    • 346 Posts
    • 59 Thanks
    Danday
    Thank you - have checked and they definitely took points for dressing. he can't do small buttons and zips (takes ages) but they decided he could.
    Originally posted by Willow1976
    Maybe they assumed that he could have obtained an aid that would reduce that difficultly?
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 12th Apr 18, 6:00 PM
    • 1,942 Posts
    • 2,237 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    Maybe they assumed that he could have obtained an aid that would reduce that difficultly?
    Originally posted by Danday
    In which case he should have been awarded 2 points for needing an aid.

    6. Dressing and undressing.
    a. Can dress and undress unaided. 0 points.
    b. Needs to use an aid or appliance to be able to dress or undress. 2 points.

    https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-points-system
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    "Posters seeking advice in this forum need to bear in mind that this is a public site on which anyone can post. You can't assume information is trustworthy, indeed some posters are known to disrupt, post disinformation, and tell tall stories.
    The MSE forum team do not moderate this forum.

    I would caution forumites to be wary of any advice supplied that doesn't contain a link to an authoritative site. Such sites include adviceguide, entitled to, turn2us, revenuebenefits, gov..uk.
    Accredited benefit advice is available from local advice agencies such as Citizens Advice.

    Please don't take horror stories about the benefit process, assessments, appeals etc at face value. There are posters on here who whose aim seems to be to alarm, frighten, and generally dissuade OP's from pursuing sensible actions to claim / regain the right benefits.

    Harmful and misleading posters are easily identified by the reaction to their posts
    • bspm1
    • By bspm1 12th Apr 18, 6:13 PM
    • 54 Posts
    • 142 Thanks
    bspm1
    In which case he should have been awarded 2 points for needing an aid.

    6. Dressing and undressing.
    a. Can dress and undress unaided. 0 points.
    b. Needs to use an aid or appliance to be able to dress or undress. 2 points.

    https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-points-system

    I saw that too but really could not be bothered to respond, I just report, report and report now. For what good it does.
    • Nannytone
    • By Nannytone 12th Apr 18, 6:18 PM
    • 48 Posts
    • 107 Thanks
    Nannytone
    I have RP 2 and if that is his only disability that I think he would struggle getting anyone to believe that he has trouble doing buttons and zips.

    The dressing and undressing descriptor would be more obviously met by needing help determining colour and cleanliness of clothes. Also suitability of clothing may be an issue. I would think that most people could do a button up or a zip up with their eyes closed. this is no different from a blind person/B]
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