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    • Flugelhorn
    • By Flugelhorn 11th Apr 18, 7:39 PM
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    Flugelhorn
    copies of probate an will
    • #1
    • 11th Apr 18, 7:39 PM
    copies of probate an will 11th Apr 18 at 7:39 PM
    I swore the oath a couple of weeks ago and sent it back to the probate office about 10 days ago

    In the post today I received a envelope wrapped in plastic by Royal Mail as they had opened it to check on the address - seems there was no address on the envelope! I am grateful that they did open it as in there was the grant of probate, 6 certified copies of the grant, one stamped copy of the will and the death cert I sent in.

    Royal Mail said to let them know if anything is missing. What I wondered was whether I was supposed to have had more certified / stamped copies of the will i.e. one per copy of the probate - or if they just send the one - does anyone know?
Page 1
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 11th Apr 18, 8:39 PM
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    AnotherJoe
    • #2
    • 11th Apr 18, 8:39 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Apr 18, 8:39 PM
    I dont think it's expected to get back multiple copies of the will, on the grounds that if it was they would change so much per copy as they do for probate copies.

    Will you be making a complaint to the probate office ? Someone has seriously screwed up there.
    • Flugelhorn
    • By Flugelhorn 11th Apr 18, 8:43 PM
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    Flugelhorn
    • #3
    • 11th Apr 18, 8:43 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Apr 18, 8:43 PM
    Reckon you are right re them charging for the will copies - presume any organisations don't need to see the will, just the probate ?

    Looks like someone had a bad day at the probate office - I am just relieved that RM decided to open the envelope and copy my name and address from the grant!
    • Owain Moneysaver
    • By Owain Moneysaver 11th Apr 18, 8:49 PM
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    Owain Moneysaver
    • #4
    • 11th Apr 18, 8:49 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Apr 18, 8:49 PM
    They send one stamped copy of the grant and Will, and additional copies of the grant only if paid for. No additional copies of the Will.

    I'm not sure I got a death certificate back though.
    A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.
    • Flugelhorn
    • By Flugelhorn 11th Apr 18, 8:51 PM
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    Flugelhorn
    • #5
    • 11th Apr 18, 8:51 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Apr 18, 8:51 PM
    They send one stamped copy of the grant and Will, and additional copies of the grant only if paid for. No additional copies of the Will.

    I'm not sure I got a death certificate back though.
    Originally posted by Owain Moneysaver
    I was surprised to get the death certificate back.

    Looks like have got everything else back that I should have
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 11th Apr 18, 10:54 PM
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    • #6
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:54 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:54 PM
    Reckon you are right re them charging for the will copies - presume any organisations don't need to see the will, just the probate ?
    !
    Originally posted by Flugelhorn

    Exactly it's your job as executor to carry out the instructions in the will, not for anyone else to double guess what you'll do with the money.
    • SevenOfNine
    • By SevenOfNine 12th Apr 18, 12:02 AM
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    SevenOfNine
    • #7
    • 12th Apr 18, 12:02 AM
    • #7
    • 12th Apr 18, 12:02 AM
    We got the grant with stamped copy of will, stapled to it (like a book), 4 grant copies we'd paid for & death cert.

    We're all done & dusted apart from completing house sale, only Santander wanted sight of the grant (a measly 1 outstanding on mortgage to utilise their 'deed store' facility). Lesson learnt there as its been an added unecessary irritation given that the property was registered.

    No-one has requested sight of the will, not even for the insurance or pension payouts, surprised me a bit for those but I wouldn't expect to show it to anyone else.

    Thank goodness the postal service got your documents to you.
    Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 12th Apr 18, 2:39 AM
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    Savvy_Sue
    • #8
    • 12th Apr 18, 2:39 AM
    • #8
    • 12th Apr 18, 2:39 AM
    Looks like someone had a bad day at the probate office - I am just relieved that RM decided to open the envelope and copy my name and address from the grant!
    Originally posted by Flugelhorn
    Even if you don't want to make a formal complaint, I would let them know. It's possible someone just had a bad day, but someone really ought to be giving a final check to post going out - whoever is franking can just flick through and check all addresses are legible!

    A thought: maybe they usually use window envelopes and they'd run out, and someone just forgot to write the name and address ...

    Anyway, as you say, thank goodness RM checked - and presumably it didn't hold things up for too long? It can take a while for 'lost' or damaged post to find its way to where it should be.
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    • Flugelhorn
    • By Flugelhorn 12th Apr 18, 7:29 AM
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    Flugelhorn
    • #9
    • 12th Apr 18, 7:29 AM
    • #9
    • 12th Apr 18, 7:29 AM
    Even if you don't want to make a formal complaint, I would let them know. It's possible someone just had a bad day, but someone really ought to be giving a final check to post going out - whoever is franking can just flick through and check all addresses are legible!

    A thought: maybe they usually use window envelopes and they'd run out, and someone just forgot to write the name and address ...

    Anyway, as you say, thank goodness RM checked - and presumably it didn't hold things up for too long? It can take a while for 'lost' or damaged post to find its way to where it should be.
    Originally posted by Savvy_Sue
    I might just let them know - for all I know I might not be the only one and chaos may be reigning. It was a window envelope but there was nothing in the envelope that showed my address to show through it, the address was only on the grants but they were folded inwards and address it is written in one long line .. no good for window.

    RM did well - the date on the grant is 6th April, I got them on 11th and there was a weekend in between.

    I find these things bizarre - I hand delivered stuff to them and then sent the oath back by tracked / signed for post and then they send it back in an unaddressed envelope
    Last edited by Flugelhorn; 12-04-2018 at 7:42 AM.
    • nom de plume
    • By nom de plume 12th Apr 18, 7:48 AM
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    nom de plume
    Before posting off a Will some years back I obtained a couple of certified copies just in case of issues with post. As in the vast majority of cases, nothing went missing but it was worth it for the peace of mind. I considered it a cheap insurance policy.
    • SevenOfNine
    • By SevenOfNine 12th Apr 18, 8:17 AM
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    SevenOfNine
    Before posting off a Will some years back I obtained a couple of certified copies just in case of issues with post. As in the vast majority of cases, nothing went missing but it was worth it for the peace of mind. I considered it a cheap insurance policy.
    Originally posted by nom de plume
    Now that's a good idea. Perhaps when initially having a will drawn up it should be a service the solicitor offers, the original PLUS a certified copy.
    Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it.
    • eddyinfreehold
    • By eddyinfreehold 12th Apr 18, 9:17 AM
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    eddyinfreehold
    Correct me if I'm wrong but there is only one certified copy of a will isn't there? That is the one signed by the deceased and witnessed at the same time, then when required for a grant of representation, countersigned in the margin by the executors under oath in the presence of an independent solicitor. This is THE will that is presented to the Court along with the sealed Death Certificate and any other required documentation. It is also the will that is scanned and kept on the https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate Records Office database for future retrevial by anyone requiring it.

    Like the Death Certificate, the Grant of Representation can have multiple sealed copies but there is only ONE will surely. Certainly, I agree authenticated copies can be made of a will, but the original is just that.

    You hear a lot of stories about the Royal mail messing up. It's great to hear when they do a good job too. I get really nervous posting things like this and often prefer to deliver them by hand. If I can't, I do what others above have said, I send it 1st Class sign for next day. It's worth the extra few quid for peace of mind.
    • Flugelhorn
    • By Flugelhorn 12th Apr 18, 10:51 AM
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    Flugelhorn
    There was one will - the original, this was taken to the probate office, they sent back a copy with the oath which the solicitor and I then countersigned and sent back. What has come back now is a photocopy of that copy and embossed by the probate office
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 12th Apr 18, 11:05 AM
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    Yorkshireman99
    There was one will - the original, this was taken to the probate office, they sent back a copy with the oath which the solicitor and I then countersigned and sent back. What has come back now is a photocopy of that copy and embossed by the probate office
    Originally posted by Flugelhorn
    For all legal purposes the embossed copy has the same legal standing as the original. However some institutions still demand further verification that is not needed.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 12th Apr 18, 4:29 PM
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    AnotherJoe
    Please do let them know. Suppose it's one person at that probate office that is messing up every envelope they send out? They need to know so they can see if it's a one off or is a systematic error that can be addressed fixed.
    • SevenOfNine
    • By SevenOfNine 12th Apr 18, 6:18 PM
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    SevenOfNine
    There was one will - the original, this was taken to the probate office, they sent back a copy with the oath which the solicitor and I then countersigned and sent back. What has come back now is a photocopy of that copy and embossed by the probate office
    Originally posted by Flugelhorn
    Ours isn't. It's one of the 3 copies we had to submit with the Probate application, it's been embossed & stapled to the Grant.

    Maybe different probate offices do slightly different things, ours (Oxford) send back any old copy with the Grant, & yours doesn't bother to address the envelopes!
    Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it.
    • eddyinfreehold
    • By eddyinfreehold 12th Apr 18, 9:37 PM
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    eddyinfreehold
    I could not accept that. Once the Grant of Probate had been administered I would require the original copy of the Will back for my care. I say this because I have been through 34 months of a difficult situation with HMRC and there is no way I am not going to have immediate access to all the original paperwork for the next 20 years, just in case. If the court send back 'copies' then what are they doing with the originals? Is there a file depository at every High Court for original Wills as well as the 'microfiche' image on the Government website?
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 12th Apr 18, 9:39 PM
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    AnotherJoe
    I could not accept that. Once the Grant of Probate had been administered I would require the original copy of the Will back for my care. I say this because I have been through 34 months of a difficult situation with HMRC and there is no way I am not going to have immediate access to all the original paperwork for the next 20 years, just in case. If the court send back 'copies' then what are they doing with the originals? Is there a file depository at every High Court for original Wills as well as the 'microfiche' image on the Government website?
    Originally posted by eddyinfreehold
    AFAIK you'll have to because thats the process, they keep the original for fairly obvious reasons.
    • Yorkshireman99
    • By Yorkshireman99 12th Apr 18, 10:28 PM
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    Yorkshireman99
    I could not accept that. Once the Grant of Probate had been administered I would require the original copy of the Will back for my care. I say this because I have been through 34 months of a difficult situation with HMRC and there is no way I am not going to have immediate access to all the original paperwork for the next 20 years, just in case. If the court send back 'copies' then what are they doing with the originals? Is there a file depository at every High Court for original Wills as well as the 'microfiche' image on the Government website?
    Originally posted by eddyinfreehold
    I think you may have missed the point. Once probate has been granted the Probate Office willed send as many copies embossed with their seal as requested. Every one of those is a de facto certitfied copy because of the embossed seal. You, or anybody else, can order a copy from the file held by the Probate Office. That file held by the Probate Office IS the central record. There is no other official record. You. Are wasting your time trying to get anything else.
    • eddyinfreehold
    • By eddyinfreehold 12th Apr 18, 10:31 PM
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    eddyinfreehold
    Don't know what AFAIK means, please elaborate.

    What's the process and where is it in statute?

    Where do they keep the original? Is there a huge repositary somewhere? The Civil Service and Government has a tremendous track record of losing anything of importance over the last 2 decades. I wouldn't trust them with a KFC receipt personally.
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