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  • FIRST POST
    • saltandpepper123
    • By saltandpepper123 11th Apr 18, 4:34 PM
    • 3Posts
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    saltandpepper123
    Benefits for non-pension age spouse if partner goes into a care home
    • #1
    • 11th Apr 18, 4:34 PM
    Benefits for non-pension age spouse if partner goes into a care home 11th Apr 18 at 4:34 PM
    I have a worry about my father and step mother; he is retired, she is not yet of pension age (not for a few years). My step mother doesn't work, they have no savings to speak of, and are living off his state pension and a small occupational pension. They live in private rented accommodation and have recently applied for - and been awarded - housing benefit and some council tax relief (pride prevented them from doing so before, it has taken some persuading to get them to apply). As we are noticing that his health and mobility is deteriorating we are wanting to see what plans they can make for the future. She is dependent on him financially but if he was, down the line, to go into a care home, am I right in thinking that the housing benefit would stop, and she would be without the money to pay for the rent? As she isn't yet old enough to draw a pension (and I am not sure about her NI contributions up to now - ie whether she would even be eligible for a state pension), we are worried she may be left in a really difficult situation. It looks to me that she would need to get a job in order to survive. I can't find much info about what happens to the spouse who remains at home, only info on what happens to the person going into a care home. I am sure this situation can't be unique but obviously less likely than a few decades ago. Thanks for any help and advice!
Page 1
    • Tammykitty
    • By Tammykitty 11th Apr 18, 4:40 PM
    • 585 Posts
    • 1,212 Thanks
    Tammykitty
    • #2
    • 11th Apr 18, 4:40 PM
    • #2
    • 11th Apr 18, 4:40 PM
    She would have to get a job


    She would be entitled to Job seekers allowance while job hunting, and also housing benefit etc
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    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 11th Apr 18, 6:21 PM
    • 26,125 Posts
    • 15,484 Thanks
    xylophone
    • #3
    • 11th Apr 18, 6:21 PM
    • #3
    • 11th Apr 18, 6:21 PM
    https://www.ageuk.org.uk/globalassets/age-uk/documents/factsheets/fs39_paying_for_care_in_a_care_home_if_you_have_a_ partner_fcs.pdf
    • saltandpepper123
    • By saltandpepper123 11th Apr 18, 6:47 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    saltandpepper123
    • #4
    • 11th Apr 18, 6:47 PM
    • #4
    • 11th Apr 18, 6:47 PM
    Thanks for the link, it looks as though she could be entitled to 50% of the occupational pension - so that is a positive even if it's a small amount.
    • elsien
    • By elsien 11th Apr 18, 6:52 PM
    • 16,904 Posts
    • 42,672 Thanks
    elsien
    • #5
    • 11th Apr 18, 6:52 PM
    • #5
    • 11th Apr 18, 6:52 PM
    Needing to get a job in order to survive?
    Like most of the rest of us, you mean?
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • BorisThomson
    • By BorisThomson 11th Apr 18, 7:05 PM
    • 1,586 Posts
    • 3,431 Thanks
    BorisThomson
    • #6
    • 11th Apr 18, 7:05 PM
    • #6
    • 11th Apr 18, 7:05 PM
    Thanks for the link, it looks as though she could be entitled to 50% of the occupational pension - so that is a positive even if it's a small amount.
    Originally posted by saltandpepper123
    That will reduce her income to means tested JSA/ Universal Credit.

    It would be worth her seeking work now, or taking steps to gain relevant experience, to lessen the shock of a much reduced income and having to comply with a job seeking agreement if she has to claim.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 12th Apr 18, 7:12 AM
    • 20,547 Posts
    • 55,240 Thanks
    Pollycat
    • #7
    • 12th Apr 18, 7:12 AM
    • #7
    • 12th Apr 18, 7:12 AM
    It would be worth her seeking work now, or taking steps to gain relevant experience, to lessen the shock of a much reduced income and having to comply with a job seeking agreement if she has to claim.
    Originally posted by BorisThomson
    +1 to this.
    I have a worry about my father and step mother; he is retired, she is not yet of pension age (not for a few years). My step mother doesn't work, they have no savings to speak of, and are living off his state pension and a small occupational pension. They live in private rented accommodation and have recently applied for - and been awarded - housing benefit and some council tax relief (pride prevented them from doing so before, it has taken some persuading to get them to apply). As we are noticing that his health and mobility is deteriorating we are wanting to see what plans they can make for the future. She is dependent on him financially but if he was, down the line, to go into a care home, am I right in thinking that the housing benefit would stop, and she would be without the money to pay for the rent? As she isn't yet old enough to draw a pension (and I am not sure about her NI contributions up to now - ie whether she would even be eligible for a state pension), we are worried she may be left in a really difficult situation. It looks to me that she would need to get a job in order to survive. I can't find much info about what happens to the spouse who remains at home, only info on what happens to the person going into a care home. I am sure this situation can't be unique but obviously less likely than a few decades ago. Thanks for any help and advice!
    Originally posted by saltandpepper123
    She should ask for a state pension estimate
    https://www.gov.uk/check-state-pension

    Better for her to know now and do what she can to improve her own situation than be very poor in her old age.
    • Daisyone
    • By Daisyone 12th Apr 18, 9:01 AM
    • 15 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Daisyone
    • #8
    • 12th Apr 18, 9:01 AM
    • #8
    • 12th Apr 18, 9:01 AM
    It's great that you are thinking ahead and considering both your dad and his wife. However, perhaps you re worrying a bit too much about 'what ifs' and could think about helping them improve the current situation..

    What age is your dad and how old your step mother? What are his health conditions and how much help is he needing. Needing a care home generally comes pretty late in the day, especially if you can get support in place to maintain home life. He may never need a care home.

    I ask about his health now as, if he is deteriorating, I wonder whether he would be entitled to claim PIP? This is NOT means-tested and would increase the household income to enable things to be put in place that would aid him to stay at home. Also, his wife would be entitled to claim Carer's Allowance (which would also give her some NI contributions towards her own state pension).

    I know it's not what you asked about but hope this helps as you thinking things through.
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 12th Apr 18, 9:09 AM
    • 22,283 Posts
    • 10,911 Thanks
    lisyloo
    • #9
    • 12th Apr 18, 9:09 AM
    • #9
    • 12th Apr 18, 9:09 AM
    As we are noticing that his health and mobility is deteriorating
    When someone is not able to look after all of their personal care the first steps are usually to get carers visting the home to help.
    This might for example start with one daily visit to help getting out of bed, getting dressed and getting washed. It can be increased to 4 visits of 1 hour per day if required.
    For my MIL and FIL this was funded by the Local authority and the threshold for income (which varies on needs) was around 300 per week before they would have to pay.
    There was also other help available such as a day center visit for MIL to give FIL (an elderly disabled carer) some respite.

    Going into a care home is a last resort if someone is beyond the 4 x 1 hour visits per day. This would include people who couldn't get to the bathroom and weren't mobile enough for sufficient hydration/nutrtion. Presumably his younger non-working wife can get drinks and food?

    Also note that it isn't a choice (if you don't have private funds).
    The local authority will only pay for a care home when it is really needed.
    • saltandpepper123
    • By saltandpepper123 12th Apr 18, 11:28 AM
    • 3 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    saltandpepper123
    It's great that you are thinking ahead and considering both your dad and his wife. However, perhaps you re worrying a bit too much about 'what ifs' and could think about helping them improve the current situation..

    What age is your dad and how old your step mother? What are his health conditions and how much help is he needing. Needing a care home generally comes pretty late in the day, especially if you can get support in place to maintain home life. He may never need a care home.

    I ask about his health now as, if he is deteriorating, I wonder whether he would be entitled to claim PIP? This is NOT means-tested and would increase the household income to enable things to be put in place that would aid him to stay at home. Also, his wife would be entitled to claim Carer's Allowance (which would also give her some NI contributions towards her own state pension).

    I know it's not what you asked about but hope this helps as you thinking things through.
    Originally posted by Daisyone
    Thanks, and I absolutely agree, it would be a last resort thing and we definitely need to look at current situation too. he is 71 and she is 13 years younger. We aren't especially close and live at other ends of the country so I don't see him very often; so notice more difference I guess when I can visit. Health conditions were a minor stroke 2 years ago which has had an impact on and exacerbated existing pain and mobility issues. He can get around the house and at the moment including using the bathroom (which is upstairs) but seems to not be able to get out and about - ie walk to the shop because of mobility and pain issues, this has changed since a few months ago hence worry about deteriorating situation. I will look into PIP.
    • elsien
    • By elsien 12th Apr 18, 12:07 PM
    • 16,904 Posts
    • 42,672 Thanks
    elsien
    If he is 71 he is too old for a new PIP claim. He would need to look at attendance allowance instead. Age UK can be helpful with applying for this.
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • lisyloo
    • By lisyloo 12th Apr 18, 3:02 PM
    • 22,283 Posts
    • 10,911 Thanks
    lisyloo
    The stairs would be my main concern.
    That can be got around with a stair lift (assuming he can bend his knees) if they have the money.
    My MIL and FIL downsized to a flat when they were 74. The advantages were lower costs, less cleaning/maintenance, company and of course no stairs.
    They also had some spare money to do some things like go on cruises.
    They changed the bath for a shower (no step and a pump as it wasn't raised).
    They both had care visits at home and both ended up in nursing care (at age 89).
    Obviously I don't know his situation but there is quite a lot that can be done before the care home stage, both in terms of equipment and care at home.
    We found social services to be helpful and they wanted to keep them at home as long as possible not just for financial reasons but wellbeing as well.
    • p00hsticks
    • By p00hsticks 12th Apr 18, 3:17 PM
    • 6,331 Posts
    • 6,865 Thanks
    p00hsticks
    The stairs would be my main concern.
    That can be got around with a stair lift (assuming he can bend his knees) if they have the money.
    My MIL and FIL downsized to a flat when they were 74. The advantages were lower costs, less cleaning/maintenance, company and of course no stairs.
    They also had some spare money to do some things like go on cruises.
    They changed the bath for a shower (no step and a pump as it wasn't raised).
    Originally posted by lisyloo
    It sounds like your MIL and FIL owned their own home. In the OPs case the couple are in rented accomodation.

    I guess theoretically renting means they may find it easier to move from their existing property into a flat, but it will severely restrict their options in terms of making alterations to their existing home (stair lift, bath for shower etc)
    • skcollobcat10
    • By skcollobcat10 12th Apr 18, 8:15 PM
    • 218 Posts
    • 2,375 Thanks
    skcollobcat10
    question answered
    Last edited by skcollobcat10; 13-08-2018 at 11:25 PM.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 13th Apr 18, 7:59 AM
    • 20,547 Posts
    • 55,240 Thanks
    Pollycat
    If home is rented by council or housing association adaptations can be done through occupational therapist and associations will arrange for the work to be done.
    Originally posted by skcollobcat10
    Unless I'm misunderstanding the terminology in bold, this ^^^^ won't apply to the OP's in-laws.
    I have a worry about my father and step mother; he is retired, she is not yet of pension age (not for a few years). My step mother doesn't work, they have no savings to speak of, and are living off his state pension and a small occupational pension. They live in private rented accommodation and have recently applied for - and been awarded - housing benefit and some council tax relief (pride prevented them from doing so before, it has taken some persuading to get them to apply). As we are noticing that his health and mobility is deteriorating we are wanting to see what plans they can make for the future. She is dependent on him financially but if he was, down the line, to go into a care home, am I right in thinking that the housing benefit would stop, and she would be without the money to pay for the rent? As she isn't yet old enough to draw a pension (and I am not sure about her NI contributions up to now - ie whether she would even be eligible for a state pension), we are worried she may be left in a really difficult situation. It looks to me that she would need to get a job in order to survive. I can't find much info about what happens to the spouse who remains at home, only info on what happens to the person going into a care home. I am sure this situation can't be unique but obviously less likely than a few decades ago. Thanks for any help and advice!
    Originally posted by saltandpepper123
    • Daisyone
    • By Daisyone 13th Apr 18, 9:08 AM
    • 15 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Daisyone
    Yes - sorry, a basic error there. It is of course Attendance Allowance hey should b looking at.
    • Tabbytabitha
    • By Tabbytabitha 13th Apr 18, 9:19 AM
    • 3,613 Posts
    • 5,913 Thanks
    Tabbytabitha
    When someone is not able to look after all of their personal care the first steps are usually to get carers visting the home to help.
    This might for example start with one daily visit to help getting out of bed, getting dressed and getting washed. It can be increased to 4 visits of 1 hour per day if required.
    For my MIL and FIL this was funded by the Local authority and the threshold for income (which varies on needs) was around 300 per week before they would have to pay.
    There was also other help available such as a day center visit for MIL to give FIL (an elderly disabled carer) some respite.

    Going into a care home is a last resort if someone is beyond the 4 x 1 hour visits per day. This would include people who couldn't get to the bathroom and weren't mobile enough for sufficient hydration/nutrtion. Presumably his younger non-working wife can get drinks and food?

    Also note that it isn't a choice (if you don't have private funds).
    The local authority will only pay for a care home when it is really needed.
    Originally posted by lisyloo
    Whilst I agree that a care home is a last resort and only for a minority of people, if you live with a much younger spouse, I rather doubt that the first step is to get in paid carers.
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