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  • FIRST POST
    • Mr Gnu
    • By Mr Gnu 11th Apr 18, 2:26 PM
    • 77Posts
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    Mr Gnu
    Sign new Tenancy Agreement or benefits will be suspended?
    • #1
    • 11th Apr 18, 2:26 PM
    Sign new Tenancy Agreement or benefits will be suspended? 11th Apr 18 at 2:26 PM
    Hello.

    Got a letter from my landlords agent on 10th March
    stating that 'they will no longer be the agents from 1st April 2018.

    The new agents will contact you from this date.'

    Got a letter today from new 'landlords' stating that 'your landlord should have informed you about the sale of this property.You will be dealing with this letting agent in future.

    If you are on HB / UC you need to sign the tenancy agreement asap. If you do not your benefits will be suspended by the council.

    If you are a private tenant cancel any standing orders with yr previous landlord.

    It is imperitive you sign asap.'

    I don't want to sign a new AST because I'm looking for another place, I've been offered a flat by a crappy housing association but am more hopeful of getting a house nearby but it's taking a while to come on the market.

    My rent gets paid by council direct to landlord with top ups paid by standing order this week.

    It's a long while since I signed a tenancy agreement, I've been at this address for 6 years, so it must be a periodic.

    I'm pretty sure my landlord owns both the old and new letting agents.

    Could be paranoid but I wonder if the housing association got in touch with original letting agents for a reference and they have gone - hang on we need to keep this chap - or maybe it's coincidence.

    I need time but it's the bit in bold as per thread title that concerns me most.

    If I sign it then I'll be bound to stay for however long it's for.
    If I don't then they say the council will stop my benefits.
Page 2
    • deannatrois
    • By deannatrois 12th Apr 18, 12:45 PM
    • 5,537 Posts
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    deannatrois
    Councils have some strange 'rules'. I was offered a place with no kitchen (literally an empty room with nothing in it). They could not put a kitchen in a void, so had to offer it to someone with no kitchen. BUT I then had to move in within two weeks (another rule) with no kitchen still.

    I had put a kitchen into my previous property on the same estate so that kitchen had to be put into the new property. They gave the workmen half a day to do it. Unbelievable. I was very very pregnant at the time but I had to finish it off. The new property was a house and bigger so I just had to do it and tile the floor (they had taken the lino up, the floor was gritty black stuff the name of which escapes me to waterproof so not useable as it was). Most uncomfortable with a big bump in the way, spent several nights doing it with snow on the ground and no heating (I had another child with special needs I needed to spend the days with). No wonder I went into labour a month early! They did give me an extra week to actually move.

    What happened to my old property now with no kitchen, I dread to think!

    And that was twelve years ago, when there was more money around, although it was the start of things getting difficult.

    In this place I have a fally apart kitchen with a sink falling through, council have an 18 month waiting list for replacements. But hopefully will have replaced it before then somehow. Council didn't do any kind of inspection before I had to move in so long list of repairs. Three inspections so far and still not one done. Although that's mostly down to a combination of things. I'm just going to get them done as and when I can. At least the place is more or less mine, unlike a private rental. The advantages are obvious but its not without its strains lol.
    Last edited by deannatrois; 12-04-2018 at 1:14 PM.
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 12th Apr 18, 12:48 PM
    • 12,700 Posts
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    Pixie5740
    If the letting agent comes back to you ask her which law makes it a legal requirement.
    • Mr Gnu
    • By Mr Gnu 12th Apr 18, 3:39 PM
    • 77 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Mr Gnu
    OK just had a call from the new landlord,he said that I must sign a new AST because of the change of landlord and they need to show it to the council as no one is paying rent at this address.

    He said they won't hold me to the 6 months AST.

    So he wants me to sign but says he won't hold me to it,I just need to give notice when I get a date from the HA.

    Said he doesn't want to evict me by court order.

    I said under section 5 of the housing act 1988 I don't need to sign a new AST which seemed to throw him, but it was quite amicable.

    We agreed I'll call him back on Monday.

    Any Thoughts welcome.
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 12th Apr 18, 3:44 PM
    • 12,700 Posts
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    Pixie5740
    You could suggest drawing up a new AST as a contractual periodic tenancy that gives you the same notice periods on both sides that you currently have with your (I assume) statutory periodic tenancy rather than signing a fixed term contract. Alternatively you could sign a 6 month fixed term contract that has a break clause. Then again you could just not sign any new contract. The world is your oyster.
    • Mr Gnu
    • By Mr Gnu 12th Apr 18, 3:51 PM
    • 77 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Mr Gnu
    You could suggest drawing up a new AST as a contractual periodic tenancy that gives you the same notice periods on both sides that you currently have with your (I assume) statutory periodic tenancy rather than signing a fixed term contract. Alternatively you could sign a 6 month fixed term contract that has a break clause. Then again you could just not sign any new contract. The world is your oyster.
    Originally posted by Pixie5740
    I suppose he could have offered me those terms if he knows about them.

    Getting evicted wouldn't be the end of the world as long as the HA get the flat they said I could have, sorted.The housing officer won't be back until a week on Monday.
    .
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 12th Apr 18, 3:53 PM
    • 18,034 Posts
    • 16,351 Thanks
    AdrianC
    OK just had a call from the new landlord,he said that I must sign a new AST because of the change of landlord
    Originally posted by Mr Gnu
    You don't HAVE to. Your existing statutory periodic tenancy carries forward.


    and they need to show it to the council as no one is paying rent at this address.
    That's probably very true. The council are still paying your rent to the old agent.
    • theartfullodger
    • By theartfullodger 12th Apr 18, 8:39 PM
    • 9,665 Posts
    • 12,998 Thanks
    theartfullodger
    Just do nothing. You are better off that way.
    • Slithery
    • By Slithery 12th Apr 18, 8:47 PM
    • 792 Posts
    • 1,223 Thanks
    Slithery
    You think that the OP will be better off if their benefits are stopped?
    • Mr Gnu
    • By Mr Gnu 13th Apr 18, 10:13 AM
    • 77 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Mr Gnu
    How can I get the HB paid to new landlord without signing a new AST?

    I'll go to the HA today to see if they can give me a date to move in so I can give notice. Unlikely though.

    If I were to be evicted I presume I would have to pay the rent myself eventually?
    Last edited by Mr Gnu; 13-04-2018 at 10:16 AM.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 13th Apr 18, 10:20 AM
    • 18,034 Posts
    • 16,351 Thanks
    AdrianC
    Do you have anything from either the new or old agent, stating they've taken over your tenancy, and giving the new payment details? Ideally, something from each.


    More importantly, what do the council want as proof, in order to change the payee?
    • Mr Gnu
    • By Mr Gnu 13th Apr 18, 10:29 AM
    • 77 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Mr Gnu
    Do you have anything from either the new or old agent, stating they've taken over your tenancy, and giving the new payment details? Ideally, something from each.


    More importantly, what do the council want as proof, in order to change the payee?
    Originally posted by AdrianC

    Yes, I have a letter from both,but the new agents letter has no address or sort code / payment details.just telling me to sign the new AST.

    The new LL said on the phone that the council will want the new AST as proof.Maybe that's why there's no address on the letter,so I can't use it as proof.

    http://www.manchester.gov.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=1572&pageNumber=5

    Letter from Landlord should do as proof but he wants the AST signing.
    Last edited by Mr Gnu; 13-04-2018 at 10:41 AM. Reason: added information
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 13th Apr 18, 10:56 AM
    • 3,622 Posts
    • 6,800 Thanks
    Smodlet
    It sounds as if neither your LL nor your letting agent have the first idea what they are doing; how unusual, not.
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • Mr Gnu
    • By Mr Gnu 13th Apr 18, 9:23 PM
    • 77 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Mr Gnu
    Went to the council today they advised me to ask for new LLs bank details and tell them if he won't comply.

    Both old agents and new have told me to stop standing order to old agent.

    This worries me that he could start a section 21 or section 8 and have me out in two weeks for being in arrears.

    I will tell new LL on Monday to give me his bank details then council can move HB across and i can pay the standing order for top ups. Hopefully he will comply.


    Council advised me not to sign new 6mth AST , even the staff at front desk said same.
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 13th Apr 18, 10:49 PM
    • 3,622 Posts
    • 6,800 Thanks
    Smodlet
    Where do you get 2 weeks from and why are you scared of stopping the payment to the old letting agent/LL?
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • Mr Gnu
    • By Mr Gnu 13th Apr 18, 11:08 PM
    • 77 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Mr Gnu
    Where do you get 2 weeks from and why are you scared of stopping the payment to the old letting agent/LL?
    Originally posted by Smodlet

    I was messaging shelter tonight and they put it to me that if I fall foul of the agreement, which I take to mean the ongoing tenancy agreement, that I am not paying rent as they both told me to stop the standing order for top ups.then the new LL could use section 21 and or section 8. to evict me.

    The new LL has not gave me bank details to change the HB over,he wants me to sign a new AST.
    Last edited by Mr Gnu; 13-04-2018 at 11:10 PM.
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 14th Apr 18, 6:36 AM
    • 12,700 Posts
    • 18,140 Thanks
    Pixie5740
    I was messaging shelter tonight and they put it to me that if I fall foul of the agreement, which I take to mean the ongoing tenancy agreement, that I am not paying rent as they both told me to stop the standing order for top ups.then the new LL could use section 21 and or section 8. to evict me.

    The new LL has not gave me bank details to change the HB over,he wants me to sign a new AST.
    Originally posted by Mr Gnu
    I'm not sure why you take it to mean that. The previous owner is no longer your landlord and you have been informed of that so there is no point continuing the standing order to him or an agent acting on his behalf. You need to get the payment details for the new landlord and start paying him instead.

    A Section 21 can be issued at any time and does not need a ground i.e. a reason whereas a Section 8 does require a ground. Should you be issued with a Section 8 for arrears (unlikely at this stage) and you have not been supplied with the correct bank details to make payments to then that would be your defence - how can you make payments when no one has told you when to make them?

    For more information about how and when an AST can be ended please read G_M's Guide to Ending/Renewing an AST.
    • deannatrois
    • By deannatrois 14th Apr 18, 9:59 AM
    • 5,537 Posts
    • 7,780 Thanks
    deannatrois
    I would suggest you write to the new LL/LA asking formally for bank details. Say you have been told by the council to stop paying rent to the old agency but will keep the money to pay the new LL/LA as soon as new bank details are supplied. I imagine the LL/LA will do the same (stop paying rent).

    It is for the new LA and old LA to communicate with each other to sort out the rent that has been paid to the wrong place by the council and yourself. As no correct bank details have been provided that is not your fault.

    Keep a copy of the letter, get proof of posting (provided for free at post office). If there were any problems you can demonstrate the efforts you have made to obtain bank details and that you have kept the money ready to pay it.
    • Mr Gnu
    • By Mr Gnu 16th Apr 18, 4:23 PM
    • 77 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    Mr Gnu
    Many thanks for your helpful replies.

    I have been to council with bank details given to me this morning by the new LL but they weren't interested.

    They suspended my claim until they get a new AST, they said I can add a break clause (?) at the bottom of it stating I can move before 6 mths ,and they also want proof that the new LL owns the property.

    So I phoned the new LL and they will come out to see me have me sign the AST and inspect the house then I imagine they will take it from there.

    I am due to view a house in 2 to 3 weeks and will be glad when it's all over as I tend to worry,especially with the mixed messages given to me by the council, also have very little faith in the new LL.

    I can now pay the rent top ups to the new LL. EDIT, I might wait until I have signed the AST.Worried now the new LL might want a fee.
    Last edited by Mr Gnu; 16-04-2018 at 5:09 PM.
    • HampshireH
    • By HampshireH 16th Apr 18, 8:57 PM
    • 852 Posts
    • 915 Thanks
    HampshireH
    IF you sign a new tenancy you need to make sure it is water tight in allowing you to give notice and leave at any time.

    You can't just "add in a clause".

    You could be tied into another 6 months. Do not just take your 'LL word for it.
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 16th Apr 18, 9:05 PM
    • 12,700 Posts
    • 18,140 Thanks
    Pixie5740
    If the council are (rightly or wrongly) insisting on a new AST ask for a contractual periodic tenancy.
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