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  • FIRST POST
    • Modcore
    • By Modcore 11th Apr 18, 10:07 AM
    • 4Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Modcore
    Rent Arrears - They setup the wrong direct debit amount
    • #1
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:07 AM
    Rent Arrears - They setup the wrong direct debit amount 11th Apr 18 at 10:07 AM
    Hello All,
    A quick low down of the situation.

    We have a shared ownership house, half mortgage half rent.

    The Housing Assocation setup the direct debit over a year ago for 336.67 per month in March 2017.

    In May 2017 I asked them to confirm the amount was correct and that it wouldnt change for a year, they agreed (have email chain of this).

    In March 2018 they have contacted me saying the amount was wrong and it should of been 366.67 and they we are now in arrears of 360.00.

    Do I have any legs to stand on here, they have admitted has been caused though no fault of my own.

    Any advice would be great!

    M
Page 1
    • david1951
    • By david1951 11th Apr 18, 10:22 AM
    • 410 Posts
    • 520 Thanks
    david1951
    • #2
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:22 AM
    • #2
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:22 AM
    Sounds like you didn't actually agree a change in the rent; therefore owe the money.

    Did you know that the amount was incorrect in May 2017 when you emailed? If so, did you notify them of the error and ask them to confirm the amount was correct?

    You have to check these things yourself as well. Their error doesn't change the terms of an agreed contract.
    • Modcore
    • By Modcore 11th Apr 18, 10:28 AM
    • 4 Posts
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    Modcore
    • #3
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:28 AM
    • #3
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:28 AM
    The amount was different than what we expected, when we asked about it they said there was an amount of credit on the account following on from the purchase of the house.
    I quoted how much had been taken from the direct debit and asked them to confirm as was expecting it to be higher. This is a quote from the email reply May2017-

    "I have checked your account and can see that your monthly rent is 400.37. Your Direct Debit is worked out as the remaining balance over the year and as there was a balance on your account when you completed; the amount of your Direct Debit is indeed 370.37"

    So not sure where that leaves us
    • takman
    • By takman 11th Apr 18, 10:39 AM
    • 3,600 Posts
    • 3,221 Thanks
    takman
    • #4
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:39 AM
    • #4
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:39 AM
    The amount was different than what we expected, when we asked about it they said there was an amount of credit on the account following on from the purchase of the house.
    I quoted how much had been taken from the direct debit and asked them to confirm as was expecting it to be higher. This is a quote from the email reply May2017-

    "I have checked your account and can see that your monthly rent is 400.37. Your Direct Debit is worked out as the remaining balance over the year and as there was a balance on your account when you completed; the amount of your Direct Debit is indeed 370.37"

    So not sure where that leaves us
    Originally posted by Modcore
    So you had agreed initially to pay a certain amount of rent and due to a mistake with the Direct Debit amount you now have 360.00 of arrears.

    Personally i would just pay the 360 in full as it's not a great deal of money and then make sure the Direct Debit amount was adjusted to prevent it happening again in the future.
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 11th Apr 18, 10:40 AM
    • 12,720 Posts
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    Pixie5740
    • #5
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:40 AM
    • #5
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:40 AM
    Doesn't your original shared ownership contract tell you how much rent is due?
    • david1951
    • By david1951 11th Apr 18, 10:46 AM
    • 410 Posts
    • 520 Thanks
    david1951
    • #6
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:46 AM
    • #6
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:46 AM
    The amount was different than what we expected, when we asked about it they said there was an amount of credit on the account following on from the purchase of the house.
    I quoted how much had been taken from the direct debit and asked them to confirm as was expecting it to be higher. This is a quote from the email reply May2017-

    "I have checked your account and can see that your monthly rent is 400.37. Your Direct Debit is worked out as the remaining balance over the year and as there was a balance on your account when you completed; the amount of your Direct Debit is indeed 370.37"
    Originally posted by Modcore
    So why are they saying the amount is now wrong?
    • G_M
    • By G_M 11th Apr 18, 11:05 AM
    • 45,013 Posts
    • 53,647 Thanks
    G_M
    • #7
    • 11th Apr 18, 11:05 AM
    • #7
    • 11th Apr 18, 11:05 AM
    I can see that the calculation was complex since the DD was affected by 2 factors:
    1) the monthly rent and
    2) the balance on the account resulting from the purchase


    However, your figures are confused.
    The Housing Assocation setup the direct debit over a year ago for 336.67 per month in March 2017.
    In March 2018 they have contacted me saying the amount was wrong and it should of been 366.67
    I have checked your account and can see that ..... the amount of your Direct Debit is indeed 370.37"
    However, putting that aside, there are 2 issues.

    3) what is actually owed.
    * What is the accurate figure that should have been taken?
    * what was taken, and thus
    * what are the arrears, if any?

    You need to get a clear break-down, and check it yourself.

    Legally, if you owe the money you will have to pay it

    4) The error
    The HA has admitted tthey made an error, therefore there is a moral obligation to treat you sympathetically. ie
    * write off the amount owed or
    * allow you to pay it back in installments

    However they do not have to do this - they can simply enforce 3) above.
    Last edited by G_M; 11-04-2018 at 11:08 AM.
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 11th Apr 18, 11:06 AM
    • 6,700 Posts
    • 8,751 Thanks
    TBagpuss
    • #8
    • 11th Apr 18, 11:06 AM
    • #8
    • 11th Apr 18, 11:06 AM
    Is there a mistake in your post at 10.28? You quote the e-mail as saying that the amount is 370.37 but in your original post, you refer to the direct debit being 336.67.

    If the correct figure was 370 but they set the direct debit up for 336, then I think it is as much your fault as theirs, for not checking.

    If the correct figure was 366 and they set up the DD for 336 and told you that the figure was 336 then it is their error.

    i think either way you have to pay the arrears, but if it was wholly their fault (i.e. if the amount they told you and the amount they set the dd up for were the same, if incorrect) then it would be reasonable to point this out and to ask them to confirm that they will ensure that as the error is their fault, that they will not seek to add any additional interest or charges (if there would normally be any, for arrears) and will ensure that their records are updated to show that you were not at fault
    • AylesburyDuck
    • By AylesburyDuck 11th Apr 18, 11:07 AM
    • 807 Posts
    • 1,930 Thanks
    AylesburyDuck
    • #9
    • 11th Apr 18, 11:07 AM
    • #9
    • 11th Apr 18, 11:07 AM
    Hello All,
    A quick low down of the situation.

    We have a shared ownership house, half mortgage half rent.

    The Housing Assocation setup the direct debit over a year ago for 336.67 per month in March 2017.

    In May 2017 I asked them to confirm the amount was correct and that it wouldnt change for a year, they agreed (have email chain of this).

    In March 2018 they have contacted me saying the amount was wrong and it should of been 366.67 and they we are now in arrears of 360.00.


    Do I have any legs to stand on here, they have admitted has been caused though no fault of my own.

    Any advice would be great!

    M
    Originally posted by Modcore
    The amount was different than what we expected, when we asked about it they said there was an amount of credit on the account following on from the purchase of the house.
    I quoted how much had been taken from the direct debit and asked them to confirm as was expecting it to be higher. This is a quote from the email reply May2017-

    "I have checked your account and can see that your monthly rent is 400.37. Your Direct Debit is worked out as the remaining balance over the year and as there was a balance on your account when you completed; the amount of your Direct Debit is indeed 370.37"

    So not sure where that leaves us
    Originally posted by Modcore
    Totally confussed, which is it?
    Anyhows, despite the error (which ever way it is) you still owe the money, although, as it is their error, maybe they will allow a catch up over the year of 12 monthly installments instead of a lump sum.
    ,
    Fully paid up member of the ignore button club.
    If it walks like a Duck, quacks like a Duck, it's a Duck.
    • Modcore
    • By Modcore 11th Apr 18, 11:14 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Modcore
    Sorry! Been copying and pasting from their emails.

    The rent should of been 400.37
    The first two direct debit payments were 370.37
    I queried the amount as it was different in May 2017
    They replied with
    "I have checked your account and can see that your monthly rent is 400.37. Your Direct Debit is worked out as the remaining balance over the year and as there was a balance on your account when you completed; the amount of your Direct Debit is indeed 370.37"

    They have now asked for the difference of 360.00
    • InterestedParty2018
    • By InterestedParty2018 11th Apr 18, 11:26 AM
    • 98 Posts
    • 57 Thanks
    InterestedParty2018
    Can you clarify, do you have a lease/Tenancy Agreement which specifies that annual/monthly rent?

    If so, this will determine how much you are obligated to pay - and will be the final "say".

    If the landlord/HA told you the incorrect amount for setting up the direct debit, then this is an error.

    They have identified the anomaly, notified you of such, apologised and told you the balance outstanding for you to clear - you need to pay this.

    I would hope that the Landlord/HA take a sympathetic look at the circumstances and knowledge that their incorrect information contributed to this issue, thus, they *should* offer payment terms to settle the o/standing balance over a reasonable time, instead of in a lump sum.

    Two points:
    1. You need to check what the lease/AST states, this is the most important document
    2. Miss-calculation can happen when there are varied dates/figures/apportionment. As long as the issue is remedied correctly.
    • Modcore
    • By Modcore 11th Apr 18, 11:39 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    Modcore
    OK thanks everyone.

    I will let them know that i accept and wait the payment terms (lump sum or over time) will see what the timescale is.

    Thank you
    • ToasterScheme
    • By ToasterScheme 11th Apr 18, 1:39 PM
    • 83 Posts
    • 82 Thanks
    ToasterScheme
    I'm still not totally convinced that you do owe any extra money.

    Seems like they said (at the start) "the DD is reduced because there was a (credit) balance on your account when you completed". And now they are saying that there was an error an no reduction was due.

    So was there a credit balance at the start? If there was, this should be the same sum as the supposed arrears.

    Were you surprised when they said you started off in credit?
    • ReadingTim
    • By ReadingTim 11th Apr 18, 3:08 PM
    • 2,843 Posts
    • 4,091 Thanks
    ReadingTim
    I'm still not totally convinced that you do owe any extra money.

    Seems like they said (at the start) "the DD is reduced because there was a (credit) balance on your account when you completed". And now they are saying that there was an error an no reduction was due.

    So was there a credit balance at the start? If there was, this should be the same sum as the supposed arrears.

    Were you surprised when they said you started off in credit?
    Originally posted by ToasterScheme
    Surely any credit should be refunded to the person to (over)paid it? You wouldn't want to inherit someone else's debts, so I don't think you can inherit any of their credit either....

    I wonder if the person setting up the DD saw that there was a credit but didn't realise it would be refunded, leading to the debt balance now...

    Anyway, hope it gets sorted. Also, given the mistake's been made once, careful they don't make it again, so if your DDs are temporarily increased to pay off the debt, make sure they're decreased once it's been paid off, otherwise you'll be in a similar situation...!
    • pinklady21
    • By pinklady21 11th Apr 18, 3:45 PM
    • 659 Posts
    • 477 Thanks
    pinklady21
    Small point - there is a difference between a Direct Debit and a Standing Order. With a Direct Debit, the person receiving the money decides how much to take each time, and can vary it under the terms of the DD agreement you signed.
    A Standing order is for a fixed amount that is determined by the person making the payment.

    If this was indeed a Direct Debit, it could have been varied by the organisation taking the money. assuming they knew the amount wa wrong of course!
    • ThePants999
    • By ThePants999 11th Apr 18, 7:44 PM
    • 1,235 Posts
    • 1,541 Thanks
    ThePants999
    The fair resolution seems obvious to me. At the beginning of the year, they owed you a bunch of money, and they thought that the fair way of refunding it was to split it over your year's worth of rent payments. Now, you apparently owe them a bunch of money, so the fair way of repaying it is to split it over a year's worth of rent payments. So, assuming the rent hasn't changed, you should be paying 430.37 per month for the next year.
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