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  • FIRST POST
    • LHZ
    • By LHZ 11th Apr 18, 9:31 AM
    • 24Posts
    • 8Thanks
    LHZ
    Any experience of 'Moola' robo-investment?
    • #1
    • 11th Apr 18, 9:31 AM
    Any experience of 'Moola' robo-investment? 11th Apr 18 at 9:31 AM
    Hello all. I'm tempted to take up the latest offer from Moola robo-investment platform via MSE (125 cashback after 12 months with minimum 1200 investment over the year). Does anyone have any experience of this? Seems like a reasonable offer. Also, is there any reason for me not to put this in a S&S ISA? I'm completely new to this and whilst I've been tempted to jump in to shares I've always held off. This Moola app seems an easy way in.

    Many thanks!
Page 1
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 11th Apr 18, 10:27 AM
    • 8,967 Posts
    • 9,838 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    • #2
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:27 AM
    • #2
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:27 AM
    If you are only planning to put a relatively low amount in, a few k, this would seem as good as any, you can always transfer it next year.
    Presumably you'll be adding 100/month or a bit more? 110 if you wanted to "pre invest" the cashback?
    • cloud_dog
    • By cloud_dog 11th Apr 18, 10:29 AM
    • 3,640 Posts
    • 2,160 Thanks
    cloud_dog
    • #3
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:29 AM
    • #3
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:29 AM
    Love their comparison of Moola charges against 'typical industry rates'.... I wonder which decade they are living in?

    Why you would go with Moola rather than, for example, Vanguard LS, I haven't a clue.

    EDIT: Lost sight of the introductory offer.....hmmm. You could do it but it doesn't make sense to leave it with them (cost wise).
    Last edited by cloud_dog; 11-04-2018 at 10:32 AM.
    Personal Responsibility - Sad but True

    Sometimes.... I am like a dog with a bone
    • LHZ
    • By LHZ 11th Apr 18, 10:34 AM
    • 24 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    LHZ
    • #4
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:34 AM
    • #4
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:34 AM
    Love their comparison of [URL="https://moo.la/fees"]

    Why you would go with Moola rather than, for example, Vanguard LS, I haven't a clue.

    EDIT: Lost sight of the introductory offer.....hmmm. You could do it but it doesn't make sense to leave it with them (cost wise).
    Originally posted by cloud_dog
    I haven't a clue either hence me asking the question. Should I set up 100 per month with Vanguard instead then? If so, why? Many thanks!
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 11th Apr 18, 10:44 AM
    • 8,967 Posts
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    AnotherJoe
    • #5
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:44 AM
    • #5
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:44 AM
    I haven't a clue either hence me asking the question. Should I set up 100 per month with Vanguard instead then? If so, why? Many thanks!
    Originally posted by LHZ
    No. The reason is the cashback offer, the equivalent of a guaranteed 10% return if you put the minimum in.

    So, as long as you are only putting in a small amount, its a reasonable way to get started. Next year you will likely be better off moving it, maybe to vanguard if you like their funds, although, the numbers are so low that in actual real terms it likely doesn't matter much.

    A reason not to do it would be, you are putting in your full 20k allowance, where the 125 cashback is noise.
    • cloud_dog
    • By cloud_dog 11th Apr 18, 10:49 AM
    • 3,640 Posts
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    cloud_dog
    • #6
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:49 AM
    • #6
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:49 AM
    I haven't a clue either hence me asking the question. Should I set up 100 per month with Vanguard instead then? If so, why? Many thanks!
    Originally posted by LHZ
    It depends what you want?

    I've never been driven by 'introductory offers' (how un-MSE I am I) but, if it suits your requirements then go ahead.

    From a simple cost perspective:
    * Moola charge 0.75% plus the underlying fund charge
    * Vanguard charge 0.15% plus the underlying fund charge

    You can see the difference.

    Having said that, on small amounts we are not talking big charges; on 1200 it is 1.80 compared with 9 Moola. Also, I'm not advocating Vanguard, simply using them as an example.

    In true MSE fashion , it would make sense to open the Moola account, take up the 125 introductory offer, and then transfer it somewhere else after 12 months. Moola do not make a charge for transferring out.
    Personal Responsibility - Sad but True

    Sometimes.... I am like a dog with a bone
    • Zorillo
    • By Zorillo 11th Apr 18, 10:53 AM
    • 82 Posts
    • 49 Thanks
    Zorillo
    • #7
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:53 AM
    • #7
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:53 AM
    Orbis are offering 100 introductory bonus on a 100 contribution, I'd look there rather than at this.
    • LHZ
    • By LHZ 11th Apr 18, 10:57 AM
    • 24 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    LHZ
    • #8
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:57 AM
    • #8
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:57 AM
    Orbis are offering 100 introductory bonus on a 100 contribution, I'd look there rather than at this.
    Originally posted by Zorillo
    May I ask why? What is the advantage? I am total noob so please bare with me.
    • Cash-Strapped.T32
    • By Cash-Strapped.T32 11th Apr 18, 11:03 AM
    • 472 Posts
    • 259 Thanks
    Cash-Strapped.T32
    • #9
    • 11th Apr 18, 11:03 AM
    • #9
    • 11th Apr 18, 11:03 AM
    May I ask why? What is the advantage? I am total noob so please bare with me.
    Originally posted by LHZ
    Presumably because a free 100 in return for committing 100 of your own for a year, is a better deal than a free 125, in return for committing 1200 of your own for that same year - no?
    Last edited by Cash-Strapped.T32; 11-04-2018 at 11:11 AM.
    • dunstonh
    • By dunstonh 11th Apr 18, 11:08 AM
    • 92,123 Posts
    • 59,278 Thanks
    dunstonh
    The Moola site looks very familiar to another robo-advice offering. Cant remember what one but the words and layout seem familiar.

    Has similar failings too....

    For the traditional fee we used typical industry rates of 1.5 - 3.5% per year.
    WTF!!!! They are nowhere near the industry typical rates. This morning I completed a case with 0.33% and just starting one that is 1.3% (both all in for ongoing). That is full advice. DIY investors typically pay around 0.5-0.7% Some of these robo-advice sites really misrepresent the charges that are present elsewhere.

    Everyone pays one flat, yearly fee of 0.75%
    Ok, so everyone pays 0.75%. Thats in nice big text and clear to see. However, its not right. Expand the fee explanation (which is initially hidden) and it says:

    Note, there is also an inbuilt fee within the Exchange Traded Funds (ETFs)
    All ETFs have an embedded fee which any investor who holds the ETF incurs. This fee is built into the ETF - the return is net of this fee. Thus you don't pay this fee to Moola, and it won't show in your list of transactions. But it is a cost incurred whenever anyone invests via ETFs, so you should be aware of it.

    The weighted average cost of the ETF fee in our standard portfolio is between 0.15% to 0.16% per year. For our ethical portfolios the weighted average cost of the ETF fee is between 0.20% - 0.31%. The average of these two ranges is 0.23% so will use this in the example below:

    So, its not 0.75%. Its now at 0.9%.

    Why do these companies try and hide their charges and misrepresent others.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). Comments are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.
    • LHZ
    • By LHZ 11th Apr 18, 11:27 AM
    • 24 Posts
    • 8 Thanks
    LHZ
    Thanks for the replies all. I've gone ahead and set up a Moola portfolio with 100 initial investment and 100 dd per month. It's hardly a life changing fortune but this at least gets me looking at the S&S market and the 125 bonus paid after 12 months means this money is likely to yield a better return than sitting in a current account which is where it would be normally.
    • Herbalus
    • By Herbalus 11th Apr 18, 12:15 PM
    • 1,975 Posts
    • 1,566 Thanks
    Herbalus
    Orbis are offering 100 introductory bonus on a 100 contribution, I'd look there rather than at this.
    Originally posted by Zorillo
    True, but this is only on s&s isas. Moola is available on GIA also.
    • Herbalus
    • By Herbalus 11th Apr 18, 12:18 PM
    • 1,975 Posts
    • 1,566 Thanks
    Herbalus

    WTF!!!! They are nowhere near the industry typical rates. This morning I completed a case with 0.33% and just starting one that is 1.3% (both all in for ongoing). That is full advice. DIY investors typically pay around 0.5-0.7% Some of these robo-advice sites really misrepresent the charges that are present elsewhere.



    Ok, so everyone pays 0.75%. Thats in nice big text and clear to see. However, its not right. Expand the fee explanation (which is initially hidden) and it says:

    So, its not 0.75%. Its now at 0.9%.

    Why do these companies try and hide their charges and misrepresent others.
    Originally posted by dunstonh
    Forgive my ignorance. Is this in addition to the fund fee? I know platform is 0.75%, plus the 0.15-0.16% etf hidden fee, but I cant find if there is also a fund fee.
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 11th Apr 18, 1:25 PM
    • 8,967 Posts
    • 9,838 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    Forgive my ignorance. Is this in addition to the fund fee? I know platform is 0.75%, plus the 0.15-0.16% etf hidden fee, but I cant find if there is also a fund fee.
    Originally posted by Herbalus
    Its not a hidden ETF fee, since they tell you what it is, and the "fund" is the ETFs that make up your investment.
    • Herbalus
    • By Herbalus 11th Apr 18, 1:35 PM
    • 1,975 Posts
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    Herbalus
    Its not a hidden ETF fee, since they tell you what it is, and the "fund" is the ETFs that make up your investment.
    Originally posted by AnotherJoe
    Thanks. I meant the etf fee is relatively hidden (at the very bottom of the fee section behind some drop down menus and expandable tables). And it is deducted from the investment so does not appear as an identifiable charge. So not quite fully transparent I would say.

    With other providers I am used to a platform fee and an OCF charge. Hargreaves Lansdown is 0.45% platform fee plus 0.22% ocf for a specific fund (which contains other funds) for example.

    My question (which I think you answered) was whether Moola apply a clear 0.75% plus say 0.15% per etf, and then plus a fund fee for the management of the basket of etfs. Or, is the etf fee with moola the equivalent to an ocf?
    • fiisch
    • By fiisch 11th Apr 18, 1:48 PM
    • 260 Posts
    • 139 Thanks
    fiisch
    Orbis are offering 100 introductory bonus on a 100 contribution, I'd look there rather than at this.
    Originally posted by Zorillo


    You could do both... Orbis' offer is limited to S&S ISA's but Moola's includes GIA's as well as ISA's.


    Personally, have stuck with the Orbis offer for now rather than over-complicating things (1 for me; 1 for wife; 1 for daughter )
    Save 6k in 2018: 1651.19 / 6000
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 11th Apr 18, 1:58 PM
    • 8,967 Posts
    • 9,838 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    Thanks. I meant the etf fee is relatively hidden (at the very bottom of the fee section behind some drop down menus and expandable tables). And it is deducted from the investment so does not appear as an identifiable charge. So not quite fully transparent I would say.

    With other providers I am used to a platform fee and an OCF charge. Hargreaves Lansdown is 0.45% platform fee plus 0.22% ocf for a specific fund (which contains other funds) for example.

    My question (which I think you answered) was whether Moola apply a clear 0.75% plus say 0.15% per etf, and then plus a fund fee for the management of the basket of etfs. Or, is the etf fee with moola the equivalent to an ocf?
    Originally posted by Herbalus
    It isnt deducted from the investment. Its the fee the ETF charges within itself and it would be the same fee if you held that ETF via HL or iii or whoever.

    There is no additional fee for the "basket of etfs" that is what their 0.75% fee is for, its the platform fee in the same way as HL have a platform fee of 0.45% fee, though more of course.

    OTOH to buy 1200 of ETFs spread across several would be much more expensive with HL or iii or an IFA as there will be transaction charges to buy the ETFs, indeed whilst DunstonH says their fees are much less as a % and maybe they are, as an amount he isnt going to charge the 9 a month (or whatever it was) that moola would charge indeed he wouldnt be interested in someone saving 100/month.
    • Alexland
    • By Alexland 11th Apr 18, 2:13 PM
    • 2,228 Posts
    • 1,622 Thanks
    Alexland
    Moola is available on GIA also.
    Originally posted by Herbalus
    Well spotted so we just applied for a Moola GIA for myself and wife so hopefully 250 payable by 30th April 2019. It's not clear if MSE/Moola are monitoring when the first 500 signups limit is reached?

    Alex
    Last edited by Alexland; 12-04-2018 at 1:39 PM.
    • grey gym sock
    • By grey gym sock 11th Apr 18, 2:22 PM
    • 4,268 Posts
    • 3,784 Thanks
    grey gym sock
    an extra cost, which seems to get overlooked, for robo-advisers who use ETFs, is the bid-offer spread, i.e. the difference between the prices for buying and selling shares in an ETF.
    • JPears
    • By JPears 11th Apr 18, 2:42 PM
    • 3,583 Posts
    • 995 Thanks
    JPears
    If I have both a Moola and an Orbis "platform", can both be in my s&s ISA wrapper or are you only allowed one "platform"?
    If you're new. read The FAQ and Vauban's Guide

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