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    • chiefie
    • By chiefie 10th Apr 18, 8:32 PM
    • 322Posts
    • 331Thanks
    chiefie
    The new WAGs - Worried And Guilty
    • #1
    • 10th Apr 18, 8:32 PM
    The new WAGs - Worried And Guilty 10th Apr 18 at 8:32 PM
    In my pension planning I didnít expect that iíd Still be worried about supporting the last two kids after UNI but it seems that I am fretting a lot. They are still at uni but Iím worried about their prospects after in terms of income and where they will live. Also feeling guilty about parents (mine have passed) but will we have enough to help MIL through health difficulties. May never retire early at this rate - thought it was our income Iíd only ever have to think about.
Page 1
    • Peelerfart
    • By Peelerfart 10th Apr 18, 10:11 PM
    • 1,879 Posts
    • 1,661 Thanks
    Peelerfart
    • #2
    • 10th Apr 18, 10:11 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Apr 18, 10:11 PM
    I did read an article, somewhere, a long time ago, that the only people who worry about student debt are the parents.
    If theyre studying degrees in proper subjects i.e. not history of Peruvian clock making, they should be fine.

    As for MIL hmm! Different story and really not in any place to comment
    Space available for rent
    • westv
    • By westv 10th Apr 18, 10:37 PM
    • 4,505 Posts
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    westv
    • #3
    • 10th Apr 18, 10:37 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Apr 18, 10:37 PM
    Let the kids sort themselves out.
    • chiefie
    • By chiefie 11th Apr 18, 4:00 AM
    • 322 Posts
    • 331 Thanks
    chiefie
    • #4
    • 11th Apr 18, 4:00 AM
    • #4
    • 11th Apr 18, 4:00 AM
    I did read an article, somewhere, a long time ago, that the only people who worry about student debt are the parents.
    If theyre studying degrees in proper subjects i.e. not history of Peruvian clock making, they should be fine.

    As for MIL hmm! Different story and really not in any place to comment
    Originally posted by Peelerfart
    Their subjects should get them something Iím sure but there is a lot of responsibility on them nowadays and it is harder to get a job with a degree now than when I was 21. One of them I fear has put a lot of faith in the Ďsystemí when they donít realise itís not joined up.
    • chiefie
    • By chiefie 11th Apr 18, 4:04 AM
    • 322 Posts
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    chiefie
    • #5
    • 11th Apr 18, 4:04 AM
    • #5
    • 11th Apr 18, 4:04 AM
    Let the kids sort themselves out.
    Originally posted by westv
    I know I know but thatís the worried bit I am going through. The last two are still the babies it is hard seeing them struggle but we canít just keep stepping in otherwise they wonít learn to fly.

    Iím from a poverty stricken background and that amount of student debt at their age would have prevented me from going to uni ~ the psychological barrier would have been too great. I had seen how my parents had lived on credit and it became an endless cycle for them just to keep food on the table.
    • OldBeanz
    • By OldBeanz 11th Apr 18, 6:08 AM
    • 731 Posts
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    OldBeanz
    • #6
    • 11th Apr 18, 6:08 AM
    • #6
    • 11th Apr 18, 6:08 AM
    I know I know but thatís the worried bit I am going through. The last two are still the babies it is hard seeing them struggle but we canít just keep stepping in otherwise they wonít learn to fly.

    Iím from a poverty stricken background and that amount of student debt at their age would have prevented me from going to uni ~ the psychological barrier would have been too great. I had seen how my parents had lived on credit and it became an endless cycle for them just to keep food on the table.
    Originally posted by chiefie
    In Scotland, where they give more support, there are a smaller percentage poorer students. So while, logically you are correct in practice you are not.
    The debt repayment is salary linked so most students are unlikely to repay all they have borrowed and Jezza is going to take his magic wand to the borrowing someday soon and it will disappear.
    Our eldest has boomeranged back to us and is using the garages we adapted for my parents so has his own space. It is delightful having him about being more involved in his life than when he was at Uni.
    Changed times from when he would have been buying a flat but not all doom and gloom.
    • Simple Soul
    • By Simple Soul 11th Apr 18, 6:39 AM
    • 35 Posts
    • 18 Thanks
    Simple Soul
    • #7
    • 11th Apr 18, 6:39 AM
    • #7
    • 11th Apr 18, 6:39 AM
    I don't have kids, so it's easy for me to say, but I think you've done your bit supporting them through further education. They are now adults and need to learn to stand on their own feet. Your parents struggled, and you probably did too when you were their age. At that age you don't feel it as much as you do when you are older. You are hardier & more resilient. It is part of the fun of being young. Don't rob them of that.

    What I say to my own parents (who are in their 90s, & want to give their money away to their kids and grandkids) is that that is what their Wills are for. As long as they are alive, they may need the money for themselves.

    At their age they do not want to go on holidays or buy cars for themselves, but they may well need money for house adaptations (stair lifts, walk-in baths etc.), mobility scooters, house repairs & replacements, or moving home to sheltered accommodation.

    They already need one hour a day of professional care / home help (which they pay for), but in the future, the amount of help they need will probably increase. And they may eventually need to move to a Care Home.

    The more they can fund themselves, the more control they have. If they don't like a particular carer or care home, they can switch instantly, no questions asked. It would not be so easy (more awkward and delicate) if the Council was providing the funding.

    Your children are adults; it is now time to look after yourself. Any money you end up not needing for yourself, will go to them anyway, in your Will. And they will likely get it when they are in their 50s or 60s, when they are close to retirement and soon to be unable to earn more money for themselves. Also at an age when they are more responsible, and less likely to blow the cash on expensive holidays, cars, parties, weddings, and divorces.

    As for student debt, Martin has said numerous times to not look on it as debt, but as a very safe, and lucrative, investment. They will not have to repay it at all if they are average earners. Even if they are high earners (in which case you should not be worried about them) they will only be subject to a limited level of extra tax (9%?) in order to repay it. And, if it is not repaid after something like 30 years, the debt is cancelled.

    I don't know her history, but perhaps if your mother in law had been a bit more selfish with her money, you would not have to worry so much about her now; she would have enough to take care of herself financially.
    Don't do that to your kids.
    Last edited by Simple Soul; 11-04-2018 at 6:57 AM. Reason: Additional paragraph
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 11th Apr 18, 8:26 AM
    • 19,666 Posts
    • 52,515 Thanks
    Pollycat
    • #8
    • 11th Apr 18, 8:26 AM
    • #8
    • 11th Apr 18, 8:26 AM
    I know I know but thatís the worried bit I am going through. The last two are still the babies it is hard seeing them struggle but we canít just keep stepping in otherwise they wonít learn to fly.

    Iím from a poverty stricken background and that amount of student debt at their age would have prevented me from going to uni ~ the psychological barrier would have been too great. I had seen how my parents had lived on credit and it became an endless cycle for them just to keep food on the table.
    Originally posted by chiefie
    Don't they only pay it back when they earn over a certain amount? (I may be wrong about this)
    I've heard Martin Lewis banging on about it on various TV programmes.

    It really depends what help your MIL may need but doesn't she have her own resources?
    • Bravepants
    • By Bravepants 11th Apr 18, 10:22 AM
    • 399 Posts
    • 433 Thanks
    Bravepants
    • #9
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:22 AM
    • #9
    • 11th Apr 18, 10:22 AM
    I wouldn't feel guilty as others have said, you have given your kids the best possible start in life. Now it's up to them!
    • marlot
    • By marlot 11th Apr 18, 10:36 AM
    • 3,368 Posts
    • 2,497 Thanks
    marlot
    Their subjects should get them something I!!!8217;m sure but there is a lot of responsibility on them nowadays and it is harder to get a job with a degree now than when I was 21....
    Originally posted by chiefie
    That's what happens when you change from 10% of students going to university to 50%. Don't forget that it may have been easier for the kids with degrees - but that was only 10% of them (20% by the mid eighties).

    The new level 4 and degree apprenticeships are they way to go for many young people. I've been coaching an 18 year-old, who has just managed to get himeself onto a degree apprenticeship with a major employer. It wasn't easy but he's earning and studying. He'll complete his degree in 4.5 years instead of the regular 3, but he'll have no debt & loads of experience
    Last edited by marlot; 11-04-2018 at 10:39 AM.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 11th Apr 18, 11:21 AM
    • 3,918 Posts
    • 6,113 Thanks
    Malthusian
    I did read an article, somewhere, a long time ago, that the only people who worry about student debt are the parents.
    If theyre studying degrees in proper subjects i.e. not history of Peruvian clock making, they should be fine.
    Originally posted by Peelerfart
    And if they are studying the history of Peruvian clock making, then they will still be fine as they won't ever have to pay it back. Unless of course they become a renowned expert on Peruvian clock making and earn significantly over the student loan repayment threshold as a result.

    It's the taxpayer that needs to worry about student debt.

    Their subjects should get them something I'm sure but there is a lot of responsibility on them nowadays and it is harder to get a job with a degree now than when I was 21....
    It is just as easy to get a job with the sort of degrees that were available when you were 21. When you were 21 you had to be at least one of well-off, well-connected and highly intelligent to get a degree. Highly intelligent and well-connected people still find it easy to get jobs.
    • OldMusicGuy
    • By OldMusicGuy 11th Apr 18, 11:30 AM
    • 333 Posts
    • 662 Thanks
    OldMusicGuy
    You must drop the apron strings IMO. If you support your kids financially after college/uni they will struggle to grow up and face financial responsibility. What we said to our son was that there will always be a room for him at home that he can come back to at any time if things don't work out. He has that security of somewhere to live but no way would we provide explicit financial support (in terms of an allowance or similar) once he finished uni. There are plenty of jobs out there for keen, willing young people but they might not be what they want to start with. We were just at the point with our son of saying it was time to start doing bar work/temp work/whatever to get some money coming in but fortunately he found a permanent job which has worked out very well.

    He is currently living at home and so we are providing some implicit financial support, because although he pays us money for food and bills we are not making him pay rent (but he is saving quite hard and has a LISA going). He has a good job and will be moving out in about 3 months with some savings behind him and a LISA on the go.

    Here's a story. I have just retired (aged 60) and spoke with a colleague a while back who is mid-sixties and facing similar work pressures to me. When I asked if/when he was going to retire, he said he couldn't see it happening soon. He listed the reasons why this was impractical for him, one of which was providing financial support for one of his children (now in their late 30s) that had made some "bad life choices".

    I saw him again about six months later when he told me he was now planning to retire. I said why the change of heart. He said he had seen a counsellor that had helped him focus more on what he wanted to get out of his remaining years and that made him change his perspective. Part of that was realising he needed to help his child stand on their own two feet rather than supporting their current lifestyle.

    It does look daunting when they first go into the job market (much harder than in my day in the late 70s) but I would still say don't over worry about the kids. However, like others have said, ageing parents with health issues can be more challenging. Best of luck.
    • westv
    • By westv 11th Apr 18, 12:37 PM
    • 4,505 Posts
    • 2,109 Thanks
    westv
    Don't they only pay it back when they earn over a certain amount? (I may be wrong about this)
    I've heard Martin Lewis banging on about it on various TV programmes.
    Originally posted by Pollycat
    That's my understanding too.
    And then it's only 10% of their income above the threshold.
    • zolablue25
    • By zolablue25 11th Apr 18, 12:46 PM
    • 1,578 Posts
    • 460 Thanks
    zolablue25
    The new level 4 and degree apprenticeships are they way to go for many young people. I've been coaching an 18 year-old, who has just managed to get himeself onto a degree apprenticeship with a major employer. It wasn't easy but he's earning and studying. He'll complete his degree in 4.5 years instead of the regular 3, but he'll have no debt & loads of experience
    Originally posted by marlot
    This is the route that I'm hoping my daughter will take.
    • Clifford_Pope
    • By Clifford_Pope 11th Apr 18, 2:52 PM
    • 3,565 Posts
    • 3,696 Thanks
    Clifford_Pope
    that amount of student debt at their age
    Originally posted by chiefie
    It's not debt. It just means they may be liable for a slightly higher rate of taxation - ie a graduate tax.

    If they do well, they will exceed the threshold and have to pay it, out of their higher incomes.
    If they don't do well, they will be paid less, so won't have to pay it.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 11th Apr 18, 4:24 PM
    • 3,918 Posts
    • 6,113 Thanks
    Malthusian
    It's not debt.
    Originally posted by Clifford_Pope
    If it's not a debt it's certainly not a tax, as there's no other tax where you can choose how much to incur, and once you've paid how much you withdrew (plus interest) you never have to pay anymore ever again.

    This sounds very much like a debt to me, but I never did semantics at school because of me asthma.
    • Arkers
    • By Arkers 11th Apr 18, 4:34 PM
    • 679 Posts
    • 5,428 Thanks
    Arkers
    Chiefie - Your post resonated with me (although I'm only 47). My two have decided against university and are both undertaking engineering apprenticeships with a very well regarded employer. Have they made the right decision? This remains to be seen. However, I too spend time worrying about how they will move forward and fly the nest. I am struggling to find the balance of how much we provide, versus our own plans, dreams and needs. Both my DH and I have FS pensions, and have always tried to strike a balance between living for today, and saving for tomorrow. The DS's are already in a good enough pension scheme (have you tried discussing the importance of a pension with a 17 year old!), however it's just not as good as ours.

    This aside, how on earth do they afford to move out? We live in an expensive part of the country and although there's plenty of room for them here I'm sure at some stage they'll want to move into their own house. Even if my kids do all the right things which they are doing ie the oldest has a LISA, I can't see that they can afford anything halfway decent without help from us. It is a conundrum which probably has a lot of people worrying, and you sound like a caring and considerate parent, and it doesn't matter how old they are. When you have worked out the right answer please feel free to share, in the meantime you are not alone.

    Arkers x
    • westv
    • By westv 11th Apr 18, 4:36 PM
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    westv
    If it's not a debt it's certainly not a tax, as there's no other tax where you can choose how much to incur, and once you've paid how much you withdrew (plus interest) you never have to pay anymore ever again.

    This sounds very much like a debt to me, but I never did semantics at school because of me asthma.
    Originally posted by Malthusian
    Doesn't Martin suggest that only the very well paid should bother paying it all off? So a 10% of income in excess of £25k (?) sounds more like an "egg heads" to me.
    • atush
    • By atush 12th Apr 18, 2:05 PM
    • 16,636 Posts
    • 10,338 Thanks
    atush
    Let the kids sort themselves out.
    Originally posted by westv
    starting by taking a degree in something that will lead to work.

    I have 3 who have left Uni. All 3 have graduate jobs and the eldet has qualified as a CA. Thee other 2 live at home (paying rent) while they save. Will be gone in a year but in the mean time not really costing me.

    So if yours live at home after Uni, charge them something to cover food etc. Once they have any paid work at all.
    • OnTheLadder
    • By OnTheLadder 12th Apr 18, 3:59 PM
    • 23 Posts
    • 12 Thanks
    OnTheLadder
    I have student debt of around 50K (started university in 2012 just as it went to 9K). I earn 30K a year on a Grad scheme and my student loan repayment has just dropped to £28 a month (previously £56 a month) due to now only having to pay 9% back on anything over 25K (i think). So £28 a month when you have 50K student loan is pretty good in my opinion. Also in comparison to what I earn, £28 really makes no difference to me. What I am trying to say is don't worry that they will be laden with loads of debt, student loan repayment is really quite manageable in my experience.
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