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  • FIRST POST
    • AmieR
    • By AmieR 10th Apr 18, 1:08 PM
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    AmieR
    Mortgage offer- advice with estate agents sneaky tactics
    • #1
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:08 PM
    Mortgage offer- advice with estate agents sneaky tactics 10th Apr 18 at 1:08 PM
    Hi

    Little bit of background we are first time buyers and viewed a property at a open house at the weekend. We fell in love with t and that evening emailed the estate agents to put in our offer
    Now we have probably done this all wrong as we put in asking price (before anyone says oh my god the property we feel is priced correctly for the area , type of house and going off the previously sold house prices in the area)
    We also did this because we have put In offers on other houses in the past and been gazumped playing what we can only describe as a bidding war going round in circles
    So full asking price is offered we have our AIP which we sent over , no chain , 10% deposit possibly more and sorted out a solicitors quote
    In my eyes we are in a great position ..... however the estate agents have come back and are chasing a family up who showed interest but are seeking advice before putting in a offer first(they waited all day for this family to phone but they didn't!)
    I get it has to be fair if they want to put in a offer but at what point do they stop chasing this family
    Also why hasnt our asking price offer been snapped up with our position

    I'm beginning to wonder are they thinking they can get more for this property and we have ruined it by going in at asking price
    Any advice appreciated shall we chase the estate agents can we ask for proof there's another family if we feel we're being tricked into increasing an already asking price offer ??
Page 1
    • Mossfarr
    • By Mossfarr 10th Apr 18, 1:14 PM
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    Mossfarr
    • #2
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:14 PM
    • #2
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:14 PM
    The estate agent is just doing their job. They work for the vendor (not you) so must do everything they can to get the best price for their house.
    That's just the way it is.
    You are still in a strong position as you are chain free first time buyers. You need to keep your fingers crossed that the other potential buyers have a house to sell so the vendor chooses to go with your offer.
    • AmieR
    • By AmieR 10th Apr 18, 1:19 PM
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    AmieR
    • #3
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:19 PM
    • #3
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:19 PM
    Thank you , yes I completely understand they are just doing their job but I've caught them out once on a bit of a sneaky lie
    If they have had asking price and want to get the best price for the house then I'd have thought they would of marked it up to offers over £xxx ??
    I almost feel like asking price is now not good enough
    And they are searching around for who ever is willing to go higher , just very deflated with the info they have given us
    • dunroving
    • By dunroving 10th Apr 18, 1:21 PM
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    dunroving
    • #4
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:21 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:21 PM
    Thank you , yes I completely understand they are just doing their job but I've caught them out once on a bit of a sneaky lie
    If they have had asking price and want to get the best price for the house then I'd have thought they would of marked it up to offers over £xxx ??
    I almost feel like asking price is now not good enough
    And they are searching around for who ever is willing to go higher , just very deflated with the info they have given us
    Originally posted by AmieR
    Sorry, what's the sneaky lie?

    Whether asking price is enough depends on how marketable the property is and what people will pay for it. If the house is very marketable, offering asking price may not be enough.
    (Nearly) dunroving
    • hazyjo
    • By hazyjo 10th Apr 18, 1:23 PM
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    hazyjo
    • #5
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:23 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:23 PM
    Not saying 'OMG' - but I would never offer asking price.


    The vendors will now think they should have put it on for more (which is prob why they haven't snapped it up and why they're now chasing the family thinking it will end up in a bidding war). Also means that if there are a few things wrong with it, your surveyor may end up valuing it slightly less (I've seen this time and time again, especially with FTBs).


    I would also ring rather than email when offering (by all means put it in an email after if you really feel it's necessary).


    Absolutely not - don't ask for proof. They won't give it and will just make you look even more desperate.


    You need to learn how to fix your poker face. Never go gushing in saying something's perfect or wonderful - always make out like there's a compromise somewhere, and always go in under the asking price, even if you end up actually paying the asking price in the end.


    The family may not be proceedable and yes they may be playing you off against each other. Best thing you can try to achieve is to find out the family's position. Have they got a complete chain beneath them? Large deposit? They are under no obligation to tell you. If they are in an unformed chain, you are by far the better buyer at the mo.
    2018 wins: Single Malt Whisky; theatre tickets; festival tickets; year of gin!
    • ExNicotineQueen
    • By ExNicotineQueen 10th Apr 18, 1:26 PM
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    ExNicotineQueen
    • #6
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:26 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:26 PM
    Not looking to buy in West Sussex are you? The market is insane there at the moment. We went to an open house a few weeks back along with 28 other couples. When we rang EA on Monday to put an offer in he said of us 29 who viewed, half put in offers for the full asking price, 5 had put in offers up to £20k over asking, and a further 5 had upped it to £45k over asking - so unless we were willing to match those offers of up to £45k over, there was no point in wasting our time.

    And before anyone jumps in and says EA was lying, this is typical of the area we've been looking at. Been searching for well over a year and plenty of properties here sell for a lot more over asking price (saved ones on RM checked later on LR to see what they sold for).

    What is the area like that you're looking to buy in? Is it a seller or buyers market?
    • hazyjo
    • By hazyjo 10th Apr 18, 1:29 PM
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    hazyjo
    • #7
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:29 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:29 PM
    PS


    You need to understand that an asking price is not (usually) a fixed price. There is no magic formula to obtain it. It depends on the market and who's looking for that type of property. The EA makes an informed decision as to price - but they can only guess really.


    If two of you are looking for the same type of thing (as in this instance) when it comes to market, it's likely to achieve near or over its asking price. If nobody is looking for it at that time, it will sit on the market until the right buyer turns up. It doesn't necessarily make it worth less, or mean it was over or underpriced to start with, property is all about supply and demand. And it is very unpredictable.


    If you were selling a house and someone offered the asking price on the day and you'd had several other viewers too who'd also expressed an interest, would you not want to see if they would want to offer too?
    2018 wins: Single Malt Whisky; theatre tickets; festival tickets; year of gin!
    • Surrey_EA
    • By Surrey_EA 10th Apr 18, 1:32 PM
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    Surrey_EA
    • #8
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:32 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:32 PM
    Struggling to see where sneaky tactics are in evidence here.

    The EA is simply doing their job, as has already been pointed out, and providing the vendor with a summary of all possible interest allowing them to make a decision on how to proceed. When a seller has multiple people who may be interested it is difficult to blame them for wanting to know exactly who is considering putting in an offer before deciding, so that they can be sure they have sold their property for the maximum possible.

    An extra £5000 makes very little difference to the commission that an EA receives. I realise it can be a stressful time when you have seen a house that you are particularly fond of, but you are unlikely to be ‘tricked’ and just need to be patient.
    • AmieR
    • By AmieR 10th Apr 18, 1:33 PM
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    AmieR
    • #9
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:33 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:33 PM
    First lie was they told us they had put our offered forward on Saturday , spoke to another person in their office and turns out they didn't put out offer forward until Monday late
    Then they told us no other offers had been submitted and it looked great for us they were just waiting for seller to accept
    Then within 20 minutes we got a call saying they were waiting for this other family to ring them to put in an offer and that 2 other offers had been declined
    They also told us that the seller was extremely genuine and if the rift offer was put to them they would take it off the market straight away
    The stories we keep getting are not matching up and they said we would have a phone call latest this morning .... still sat here waiting to hear
    • ThePants999
    • By ThePants999 10th Apr 18, 1:35 PM
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    ThePants999
    I think you've spent too much time on eBay or something. This isn't a "best offer or Buy It Now" situation - you don't automatically get the house just because you've offered asking price. The "asking price" is merely a starting point for negotiations - guidance as to the sort of number the seller is looking for. Obviously, if they get a lot of interest and think they can get more than the asking price, they'll try to do so.
    • AmieR
    • By AmieR 10th Apr 18, 1:41 PM
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    AmieR
    Completely understand that everything needs to be fair and that they are doing their job but in our eyes we are being told conflicting information which don't match up

    My questions really were aimed more towards how long do estate agents chase people for offers do they give you a rough guide to when your offers need to be in by ?

    Are they allowed to pretend there are other buyers (as I mentioned there collegue told us there was no other buyers interested from the open house) then 20 minutes later there was this mystery family

    As a first time buyer I personally don't want to be duped into panick and raising my bid when there may be no other family
    • AmieR
    • By AmieR 10th Apr 18, 1:44 PM
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    AmieR
    There's no need to imply I've spent to much time on eBay I'm merely asking for advice being a first time buyer

    Estate agents told me first full asking price offer it would be taken off market which has not happened

    Told me no other interested family's . Now that's changed after 20 minutes of them telling me

    Im NEW to this so when someone tells me they are going to take the first full asking price and doesn't then yeah that kind of rocks my confidence a little in what I'm being told
    • Surrey_EA
    • By Surrey_EA 10th Apr 18, 1:56 PM
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    Surrey_EA
    Completely understand that everything needs to be fair and that they are doing their job but in our eyes we are being told conflicting information which don't match up

    My questions really were aimed more towards how long do estate agents chase people for offers do they give you a rough guide to when your offers need to be in by ?

    Are they allowed to pretend there are other buyers (as I mentioned there collegue told us there was no other buyers interested from the open house) then 20 minutes later there was this mystery family
    Originally posted by AmieR
    It depends, but if someone hasn't come back with an offer after being chased for a couple of days the strong chances are that they're not interested.
    As a first time buyer I personally don't want to be duped into panick and raising my bid when there may be no other family
    Originally posted by AmieR
    Surely that's the same for people who are not FTBs too?

    Put it this way. EA fees are around 1% of the sale price, sometimes a bit more, sometimes a bit less. Let's assume the same price is £250,000. EA fees would be £2500 to the company, may £250 to the individual.

    If the sale price is £260,000, fees would be £2600 to the company, and £260 to the individual.

    Therefore a whole £10,000 extra on the purchase price represents £10 extra to the individual. Not really worth all the bother of making up other offers and fictitious families, believe me.
  • Andalya
    As a first time buyer I personally don't want to be duped into panick and raising my bid when there may be no other family
    Don't even think about raising your bid until your offer is rejected. As others have said, the EA isn't the one waiting at this point (unless they actually haven't submitted your offer) it's the vendor who's waiting - perhaps on the advisement of the EA.
    • Pixie5740
    • By Pixie5740 10th Apr 18, 2:24 PM
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    Pixie5740
    You do realise that even if your offer is accepted that all bets are off until you actually exchange....
    • dunroving
    • By dunroving 10th Apr 18, 2:35 PM
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    dunroving

    <<snip>>

    They also told us that the seller was extremely genuine and if the right offer was put to them they would take it off the market straight away
    <<snip>>
    Originally posted by AmieR

    <<snip>>

    Estate agents told me first full asking price offer it would be taken off market which has not happened
    <<snip>>
    Originally posted by AmieR
    These two things are not the same, ...

    Also, you complain that "things changed" - well, things DO change.

    The EA's job is to work for the seller. He/she doesn't have ESP, so can't KNOW what the seller is thinking.

    12:00 p.m. Offer of asking price (say, £200k) received, EA says this is a good offer and very likely to be accepted (HIS/HER opinion, not the seller's). Offer transmitted to seller.

    12:45 p.m. Another buyer says he/she will likely offer over asking, but just needs to do some sums, as it is close to their maximum. EA asks seller an seller says "Give them 24 hours".

    Where in this scenario is the EA being "sneaky"?

    I think you should take a deep breath and step back. It's very easy to get emotional about house-buying, and understandably so. But in the current situation, you risk losing the property if you don't look at it like a business transaction.
    (Nearly) dunroving
    • ACG
    • By ACG 10th Apr 18, 3:05 PM
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    ACG
    I disagree with others.
    There is no issue offering the asking price if it is a good deal, it shows you are a serious buyer.

    I would go to the agents and just say you made an asking price offer as you assumed they would bite your hand off and that you are now a bit concerned they they have not accepted the offer as it meets their request - are they serious sellers?
    I am a Mortgage Adviser
    You should note that this site doesn't check my status as a mortgage adviser, so you need to take my word for it. This signature is here as I follow MSE's Mortgage Adviser Code of Conduct. Any posts on here are for information and discussion purposes only and shouldn't be seen as financial advice.
    • victoriavictorious
    • By victoriavictorious 10th Apr 18, 3:14 PM
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    victoriavictorious
    AmieR - I'm going to be the lone voice in the wilderness (EDIT: apart from ACG above whose post crossed with mine) and say I'm totally with you on this, and feel your pain.
    Yes, I do get supply & demand and it's all very well that agents are employed to work on behalf of sellers and try to achieve as high a price as they can, but still it isn't very nice to be at the receiving end of having offered in good faith what is, after all being advertised as their asking price (not one the buyer has just plucked out of the air, nor even offers over); only to have vendor or agent suddenly turn round and imply that not only is the price that they themselves have calculated the property to be worth not enough, but additionally, they are going to keep you on tenterhooks and not even let you know what is going on.

    The entire process seems to bring out the very worst in human nature (greed being the main one.)
    Call me old fashioned but I believe in being honourable in business - which is probably why I'm not rich, but at least I don't act like some lite version of Delboy Trotter when I buy or sell a property.

    We are currently in the process of buying a property in the area we wanted, where hardly anything ever comes up for sale in our price range. It had recently come on the market and had already gained a lot of interest. Granted it wasn't an open day, but we travelled around 100 miles to view it at short notice.
    Everyone who had viewed it before us had made an offer, but all had been under asking price.
    The vendor had hosted the viewing, we established a good rapport and put in a full asking price offer (very reasonably priced) on the spot, direct to the vendor, which they immediately accepted. We then put the offer formally to the agent on the condition it was taken off the market, which it was.
    The vendor told us they needed the full asking price in order to afford the move, and were pleased that the house would be going to buyers who would appreciate and love their home as they had.
    There had been more viewings booked after us, but they were cancelled after our offer was accepted.

    There are still some sellers who are happy with their own asking price and prefer to deal in that way, although they're rare.
    We've always refused to get involved in games, leaving them to those who have the inclination for them.
    • victoriavictorious
    • By victoriavictorious 10th Apr 18, 3:25 PM
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    victoriavictorious
    ...in addition to all that, unless a buyer is funding their own purchase, a property is only worth what the mortgage valuer thinks it's worth, regardless of how much over asking they offer!
    • hazyjo
    • By hazyjo 10th Apr 18, 4:24 PM
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    hazyjo
    Completely understand that everything needs to be fair and that they are doing their job but in our eyes we are being told conflicting information which don't match up

    My questions really were aimed more towards how long do estate agents chase people for offers do they give you a rough guide to when your offers need to be in by ?

    Are they allowed to pretend there are other buyers (as I mentioned there collegue told us there was no other buyers interested from the open house) then 20 minutes later there was this mystery family

    As a first time buyer I personally don't want to be duped into panick and raising my bid when there may be no other family
    Originally posted by AmieR
    Have you never heard of EAs' reputations LOL?!

    I bet the day went something like this when you offered:

    - You offer... no other offers on the table.

    - EA gets excited - it's all starting! Frantically rings round all other viewers that day saying 'it's proving so popular, we have an asking price offer on the table already and are having to rush in with final bids, so if you're interested, you need to get back to me within the next hour or so before the vendor accepts'.

    - Human nature to want what others do - an offer on the table already makes the property more desirable. Even those who weren't going to offer will now be thinking hmm maybe we should think about this one again, it seems very popular and must be worth it and nice...

    - EA rings you back saying one is interested (how they interpret 'interested' may be different to me and you, but that's not to say they're actually lying). They may not end up offering, they may not have a buyer, but the EA will do their best to use it against you to make you increase your bid.



    Agree it's not about the commission, it's about their pride, instinct and they want their client to tell all their friends how fantastic they were and got an even higher offer out of their buyer.

    Good luck!
    2018 wins: Single Malt Whisky; theatre tickets; festival tickets; year of gin!
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