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  • FIRST POST
    • LocoLoco
    • By LocoLoco 10th Apr 18, 11:43 AM
    • 207Posts
    • 253Thanks
    LocoLoco
    Question re PIP and Eating and Drinking
    • #1
    • 10th Apr 18, 11:43 AM
    Question re PIP and Eating and Drinking 10th Apr 18 at 11:43 AM
    Hello all, I'm filling in my son's PIP form and just wondered if anyone can answer this: it says on the descriptors 'needs prompting to take nutrition'; do they mean prompting for every mouthful and every sip or just some prompting?
    My son can and does eat and drink unaided but needs to be told it's time to eat and sometimes needs to be reminded to keep eating whilst he's doing it. Drinking is similar; he needs drinks to be put in front of him but will usually drink it once it's there although some days will need reminding. If he's had a seizure or is especially tired he will need to be prompted frequently but those days are rare now (thankfully).
    Can anyone advise? Not trying to fiddle the system or claim he has problems he doesn't but am trying to work out the number of points he may get and don't want to fill the form with unnecessary information that won't be relevant to the claim anyway
    Many thanks in advance
Page 2
    • kingfisherblue
    • By kingfisherblue 12th Apr 18, 6:48 PM
    • 7,710 Posts
    • 16,831 Thanks
    kingfisherblue
    But there must be something very wrong with the ESA/PIP system for the committee to make these suggestions. You only need to look at the number of people that have given their own evidence.
    You were lucky, many others weren't

    670,000 PIP claimants 22% of all claimants;have submitted an MR request since 2013, with 187,000 of those going on to appeal.
    That works out that there have been 134,000 applicants that had to ask for a MR every year for the past 5 years that's 22% of all claimants in each year.

    Put it another way - the DWP managed to get the wrong decision in 22%
    Originally posted by Danday
    Or maybe a proportion of the claimants are not entitled to receive PIP?

    I've no doubt that some decisions have been incorrect, but there are so many people who want to claim because they have a condition, but don't actually qualify.

    Some recent examples that I have read about are Type 1 diabetics turning 16. As a child on DLA, they have qualified, but as an adult (assuming no complications and no learning disability), most diabetics would reasonably be expected to manage their condition. Yet so many think that despite not fitting the descriptors, they should receive PIP, often at enhanced rates.

    Many years ago, I knew a lady who had a damaged little finger. It was immobile. She received DLA as a result, even though she was able to do everything for herself, and it did not impact on her life in any way. I knew her quite well, but knew virtually nothing about the benefits system back then. She will now be in her 70s, so a switch to PIP is unlikely. If she was younger, she would lose any entitlement as this was her only medical problem. She was actually quite proud of the fact that she could receive money each week for an immobiler finger, and freely admitted that it didn't stop her from doing anything.

    When quoting statistics, it would perhaps be more helpful to include the figures for those who have not been awarded PIP, despite applying, because they do not fit the criteria.
    • easy
    • By easy 13th Apr 18, 8:52 AM
    • 2,311 Posts
    • 2,713 Thanks
    easy
    670,000 PIP claimants 22% of all claimants;have submitted an MR request since 2013, with 187,000 of those going on to appeal
    .

    Danday - All that really means is that 22% of claimants got an initial decision that they didn't agree with. Notice that of the 670,000 who submitted an MR request, 483,000 didn't go any further - presumably because a proportion of those got a different decision on MR, and a proportion realised that they didn't qualify after all.

    In any case to follow your logic - using your own phrasing - the DWP managed to get the RIGHT decision in 78% of cases

    So, once again people shouldn't panic over their PIP applications. Although some applicants do seem to have difficulty with the process (and those are the ones who tend to be represented here), the statistics suggest that - by far - the majority of applications result in the appropriate decision.
    I try not to get too stressed out on the forum. I won't argue, i'll just leave a thread if you don't like what I say.
    • Danday
    • By Danday 13th Apr 18, 4:43 PM
    • 354 Posts
    • 63 Thanks
    Danday
    .
    Although some applicants do seem to have difficulty with the process (and those are the ones who tend to be represented here), the statistics suggest that - by far - the majority of applications result in the appropriate decision.
    Originally posted by easy
    There is another aspect to this. I wonder how many of those that get an award and don't appeal had help from an outside agency either with the claim form, gathering evidence etc? Then there are those that know how the system works don't need additional help and go on to get the right result?

    That just leaves the rest that muddle through the best they can and do not access help or advice.
    On balance it should make no difference as the DWP and the assessors are supposed to be able to spot those that have extreme difficulty in accessing help, don't want to and/or down play their difficulties - they should not be penalised for it.
    • Tommo1980
    • By Tommo1980 14th Apr 18, 9:40 AM
    • 374 Posts
    • 587 Thanks
    Tommo1980
    Unfortunately most of their resources have to be concentrated on detetecting those who know the system and try to play it for their own benefit.... i.e you.
    • antrobus
    • By antrobus 14th Apr 18, 3:14 PM
    • 15,612 Posts
    • 22,265 Thanks
    antrobus
    ...

    Put it another way - the DWP managed to get the wrong decision in 22%
    Originally posted by Danday
    Err, no it doesn't actually. Less than 20% of MRs result in a change to the award. The DWP even manage to get a similar result in about one third of tribunal results.

    So taking your numbers; "670,000 PIP claimants 22% of all claimants;have submitted an MR request since 2013, with 187,000 of those going on to appeal", this would mean that the DWP managed to get the wrong decision in 8% of cases.

    (That's 20% times 670,000 plus one third of 187,000 over 3,045,000)

    P.S. The latest PIP statistics can be found here
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/691552/pip-statistics-to-january-2018.pdf
    Last edited by antrobus; 14-04-2018 at 3:17 PM.
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