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    • Tootling
    • By Tootling 9th Apr 18, 7:21 PM
    • 36Posts
    • 29Thanks
    Tootling
    An undertaking
    • #1
    • 9th Apr 18, 7:21 PM
    An undertaking 9th Apr 18 at 7:21 PM
    So, at the very end of the chain we are being held up by some "undertaking" thing. And i don't understand it so wondering if anyone could enlighten me?

    The second to last people in the chain who i will refer to as arseholes because they are.

    The arseholes lender won't let then break the chain for some reason. According to the estate agent this is not unheard of. The arseholes had been saying they were going to break the chain right up to the least moment when suddenly they found out they weren't able.

    They are buying some place with a leasehold.

    Their lender's solicitor has requested an undertaking that some documents will be signed on completion or something like that.

    The arseholes solicitor sent the lender's solicitor this undertaking thing. Only the lender's solicitor rejected it due to the wording.

    Now today the arsehole's solicitor has refused to reword the undertaking thing.

    Why? I think it has got something to do with the freeholder's solicitor. I can't remember now I'm too upset about this to even think.

    Every bloody week something happens that pages it all backwards. Every week we think ah look week be ready to exchange next week and then this happens. Something goes wrong.

    They magically can't break the chain, now this.

    And we can't hang on like this forever as we did our house and moved in to a rented room basically which we can't have for that much longer.

    I bloody hate those arseholes, mainly for lying because there is NO way they could have gone into their purchase of their next house without knowing. And it was so convenient that this didn't come to light until the very last minute and only when the EA tracked them down and asked them directly rather than going through their EA as he's been doing so before.

    And so bloody typical of them to have gone for some dumb house. I basically hate them for breathing at the moment.

    We are now looking for more long term rental properties but that means potentially getting tired into a long contact and we can't afford to buy a house and pay up x worth of rental so this whole thing feels like falling apart at the seams.

    Alright at the rate this is going it might take 6 more months.

    There are two properties in the chain between us and arseholes. The house we are buying and another.

    We are hoping that one of them will just break the damned chain themselves.

    So err... what is this undertaking thing, what might it be and why won't that dashed solicitor just reword it? Or is it too vague to really say? I just don't understand why this thing has cropped up last moment.
Page 1
    • G_M
    • By G_M 9th Apr 18, 7:49 PM
    • 45,329 Posts
    • 54,345 Thanks
    G_M
    • #2
    • 9th Apr 18, 7:49 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Apr 18, 7:49 PM
    This is all so vague, and the informtion so unreliable. It's too far removed and based on "He said...." but "She said....".

    You cannot know the truth of what is happening up the chain.
    You'll probably never know.
    Either it will resolve, suddenly, and you'll all Exchange, or the chain will collapse and you'll have to wait for it to be re-established, or find a new buyer.

    All you can do is be patiant.
    • Tootling
    • By Tootling 9th Apr 18, 8:04 PM
    • 36 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    Tootling
    • #3
    • 9th Apr 18, 8:04 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Apr 18, 8:04 PM
    Patience is running... Well it's run out. Any idea where we can find some more?

    Everything just feels like we get right up to the moment where everything is coming together... And then no. Actually it's worse than before. One step that's and about five back.

    The EA who is the EA of the house we are buying, is trying to find out some more info.

    It just feels to me that some people just aren't willing to do what it takes because they just want to sit about in their armchairs. Fine if you have one!
    • G_M
    • By G_M 10th Apr 18, 12:15 AM
    • 45,329 Posts
    • 54,345 Thanks
    G_M
    • #4
    • 10th Apr 18, 12:15 AM
    • #4
    • 10th Apr 18, 12:15 AM
    Patience is running... Well it's run out. Any idea where we can find some more?
    Sure. I have some for sale. PM me!

    The EA who is the EA of the house we are buying, is trying to find out some more info.

    It just feels to me that some people just aren't willing to do what it takes because they just want to sit about in their armchairs. Fine if you have one!
    Originally posted by Tootling
    Again - you are jumping to conclusions.

    The individual in question may be tearing their hair out in frustration because of their mortgage lender.

    Their daughter may be seriously ill in hospital, diverting their attention away. (and they may not wish to share this information).

    An unexpeted legal issue may have arisen.

    You have absoluly no idea.

    And even if the EA comes back tomorrow with an explanation, that too may be a load of twoddle - because the individual may have toold him a load of twoddle.


    A I said. Youu will never know the truth.
    Last edited by G_M; 10-04-2018 at 4:48 AM.
    • Tiglet2
    • By Tiglet2 10th Apr 18, 7:45 AM
    • 217 Posts
    • 212 Thanks
    Tiglet2
    • #5
    • 10th Apr 18, 7:45 AM
    • #5
    • 10th Apr 18, 7:45 AM
    Just letting you know - an Undertaking is a solicitor's "promise" to pay/provide/deal with something on completion. A solicitor will not give an Undertaking unless they can guarantee that they will do whatever the promise was to assist the transaction. It might be confirming that the credit card will be cleared by the seller on completion, or that they will assist in the buyer's application for registration at Land Registry. Whatever it happens to be, it is certainly not something you have any control over. You may as well stop stressing about it because there is nothing you can do and no amount of threats or stomping of feet will make any difference.
    Are you the first time buyer in the chain?
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 10th Apr 18, 8:06 AM
    • 18,413 Posts
    • 16,624 Thanks
    AdrianC
    • #6
    • 10th Apr 18, 8:06 AM
    • #6
    • 10th Apr 18, 8:06 AM
    The second to last people in the chain who i will refer to as arseholes because they are.
    Originally posted by Tootling
    And already we're setting expectations and pointing fingers.


    The arseholes lender won't let then break the chain for some reason.
    Which way?

    Sell their old property, but not buy the new one? Apart from "Where would they live?", there's little reason a lender should worry there.


    Buy the new property, but not sell the old one? Now, who can possibly think of a reason why a lender might not be totally happy with doubling their lending...?


    They are buying some place with a leasehold.

    Their lender's solicitor has requested an undertaking that some documents will be signed on completion or something like that.
    Hold on a minute. I know my crystal ball's somewhere around.



    Well, what could possibly go wrong with a solicitor signing a legal promise that some documents might be signed at some point in the future. Is this relating to the lease? Extension? Perhaps the lease is unmortgageably short, and the vendor's promising faithfully to pay the renewal fee from the money released on completion? Perhaps there's a less-than-tame Wildebeest in the garden shed that's going to be returned to the zoo by the removal people?


    The arseholes solicitor sent the lender's solicitor this undertaking thing. Only the lender's solicitor rejected it due to the wording.
    How very dare a solicitor refuse to sign something because the wording isn't right.


    Now today the arsehole's solicitor has refused to reword the undertaking thing.


    Why? I think it has got something to do with the freeholder's solicitor. I can't remember now I'm too upset about this to even think.
    So instead you'll just assume and finger-point down your predetermined conclusions.



    So err... what is this undertaking thing, what might it be and why won't that dashed solicitor just reword it? Or is it too vague to really say?
    Seriously?
    • pelirocco
    • By pelirocco 10th Apr 18, 8:44 AM
    • 7,664 Posts
    • 8,553 Thanks
    pelirocco
    • #7
    • 10th Apr 18, 8:44 AM
    • #7
    • 10th Apr 18, 8:44 AM
    So, at the very end of the chain we are being held up by some "undertaking" thing. And i don't understand it so wondering if anyone could enlighten me?

    The second to last people in the chain who i will refer to as arseholes because they are.

    The arseholes lender won't let then break the chain for some reason. According to the estate agent this is not unheard of. The arseholes had been saying they were going to break the chain right up to the least moment when suddenly they found out they weren't able.

    They are buying some place with a leasehold.

    Their lender's solicitor has requested an undertaking that some documents will be signed on completion or something like that.

    The arseholes solicitor sent the lender's solicitor this undertaking thing. Only the lender's solicitor rejected it due to the wording.

    Now today the arsehole's solicitor has refused to reword the undertaking thing.

    Why? I think it has got something to do with the freeholder's solicitor. I can't remember now I'm too upset about this to even think.

    Every bloody week something happens that pages it all backwards. Every week we think ah look week be ready to exchange next week and then this happens. Something goes wrong.

    They magically can't break the chain, now this.

    And we can't hang on like this forever as we did our house and moved in to a rented room basically which we can't have for that much longer.

    I bloody hate those arseholes, mainly for lying because there is NO way they could have gone into their purchase of their next house without knowing. And it was so convenient that this didn't come to light until the very last minute and only when the EA tracked them down and asked them directly rather than going through their EA as he's been doing so before.

    And so bloody typical of them to have gone for some dumb house. I basically hate them for breathing at the moment.

    We are now looking for more long term rental properties but that means potentially getting tired into a long contact and we can't afford to buy a house and pay up x worth of rental so this whole thing feels like falling apart at the seams.

    Alright at the rate this is going it might take 6 more months.

    There are two properties in the chain between us and arseholes. The house we are buying and another.

    We are hoping that one of them will just break the damned chain themselves.

    So err... what is this undertaking thing, what might it be and why won't that dashed solicitor just reword it? Or is it too vague to really say? I just don't understand why this thing has cropped up last moment.
    Originally posted by Tootling




    You dont understand what an undertaking is , so you refer to them arseholes ! I suspect the others in the chain may just have a few choice names for you
    Vuja De - the feeling you'll be here later
    • AnotherJoe
    • By AnotherJoe 10th Apr 18, 9:03 AM
    • 10,620 Posts
    • 12,160 Thanks
    AnotherJoe
    • #8
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:03 AM
    • #8
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:03 AM
    I can't remember now I'm too upset about this to even think.
    .
    Originally posted by Tootling
    The only thing in your rant that is understandable.
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 10th Apr 18, 9:49 AM
    • 3,961 Posts
    • 7,195 Thanks
    Smodlet
    • #9
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:49 AM
    • #9
    • 10th Apr 18, 9:49 AM
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • paddy's mum
    • By paddy's mum 10th Apr 18, 10:26 AM
    • 3,560 Posts
    • 12,822 Thanks
    paddy's mum
    Although at this point you are too wound up to see it, that solicitor is actually doing something that may turn out to be giving you a degree of protection too, somewhere much further down the line.

    I assume that you don't want to find twenty years from now and many thousands of pounds paid out in mortgage etc that some glitch that the solicitor over-ruled, which failed to protect his "%^&*" clients, has led to an unsolveable problem with the lease, exorbitant maintenance/repair costs to which you are legally obliged to contribute, an incomplete Land Registry entry, uncertainty over true ownership, an unresolved boundary dispute..etc, etc.

    Concentrate on cultivating patience, take a walk in the park each evening, anything that takes the sting out of your current frustration.

    Hating, by the way, hurts the hater far, far more than the hated! Good luck.
    • Tootling
    • By Tootling 10th Apr 18, 11:15 AM
    • 36 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    Tootling
    I understand why an undertaking is basically, but not the circumstances that would require one.

    I'm not angry at them about that, just the fact they lied up until the last minute about going into rental/family as they had said they would right up to the last minute.

    We broke our chain without issue but we also asked if it would be possible before making any such suggestion to our buyers.

    They have peed everyone else off thanks to this lie. I don't see how they could have not known. We had for weeks ago been aiming to exchange on x and complete on y and would have met that had it not been for their sudden revelation a day or two before everyone was set to exchange. The last bits and bobs were completed everyone basically thought they'd be exchanging on the day, or one or two days after, had no reason not to believe.

    This undertaking issue is just the anti-icing on the cake. The last straw as everyone has got fed up and all up and down the chain are threatening to pull out. Likely a bluff from them but for us it is more that we can't stay in temporary lodging for much longer. Had they told the truth earlier we might have tried to find something a little more secure and better for us. And thus this stress could have been avoided. In fact i remember asking before we broke our chain (which i don't regret doing, or buyers wouldn't have stuck around for this long and due to moving slightly further afield and it having taken us ages to sell our house it was more important for us to complete our sale) if these people were definitely without a doubt going to break their chain as promised. They said they were (perhaps through chinese whispers). Either way they had an opportunity to come clean.

    They had dropped one house they were buying at the last minute and then i think about a month before planned exchange got into another purchase, whilst still promising the same thing, to move into rental or with family. And you know i get that and all but they could have just said that due to this they might be unable to break the chain.

    I guess maybe their lender won't let them break their chain if they are porting their mortgage across rather than going with a new lender. Which we had to do with ours for various reasons.

    Anyway that's confusing my question, i should have kept it to the point...

    Under what circumstances would you need an undertaking? As i said up earlier (never managed the art of keeping things short) it isn't this thing that has peed me off so much. Apart from its just one more thing.

    I know there isn't much we can do in these circumstances. But I'd like to understand the whys and wherefores for sanity's sake. Perhaps to understand this standstill. But i guess without more detail i might never know.

    If the solicitor is unwilling to reword the undertaking (and in not questioning the fact he is) where did that leave everybody? Seems a funny thing to cause a chain to collapse. There has to be a way to move to alleviate whatever it is.

    But if course we don't know what that is. I am talking to myself here...

    Obviously best course of action now is to find somewhere to rent properly. Hmm.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 10th Apr 18, 11:26 AM
    • 18,413 Posts
    • 16,624 Thanks
    AdrianC
    I understand why an undertaking is basically, but not the circumstances that would require one.
    Originally posted by Tootling
    No, that's because they don't concern you directly. Would you like it if your solicitor passed confidential information up and down the chain willy-nilly?


    I'm not angry at them about that
    You might like to re-read your original post, because it certainly comes across as that.

    I don't see how they could have not known. We had for weeks ago been aiming to exchange on x and complete on y and would have met that had it not been for their sudden revelation a day or two before everyone was set to exchange. The last bits and bobs were completed everyone basically thought they'd be exchanging on the day, or one or two days after, had no reason not to believe.
    Yet you assume that they clearly knew about this mysterious thing that you cannot identify.


    Given that you've not exchanged yet, just be thankful that this isn't a total show-stopper with somebody pulling out completely.



    They had dropped one house they were buying at the last minute
    So they spent real money on all the legals, surveys etc on one property - then just changed their mind, wasting that money completely, on a whim - just to annoy the rest of the chain?


    Or something about that property suddenly turned into a showstopper, causing them at least as much grief as you?


    Anyway that's confusing my question, i should have kept it to the point...

    Under what circumstances would you need an undertaking?
    How long is a piece of string?



    But i guess without more detail i might never know.
    Correct.


    If the solicitor is unwilling to reword the undertaking (and in not questioning the fact he is) where did that leave everybody? Seems a funny thing to cause a chain to collapse.
    Quite.


    Why would anybody be so intransigent for no rational reason whatsoever? It makes no sense - so the logical conclusion is that there must be a genuine issue here.


    There has to be a way to move to alleviate whatever it is.
    Perhaps there is - or perhaps it'll cost more or take more time to resolve than just pulling out - or perhaps it's causing the lender to view the property as unsuitable security for the money.


    But if course we don't know what that is. I am talking to myself here...
    Or perhaps you're just venting and lashing out. It's understandable that you're frustrated - but turning that frustration into anger helps nobody, least of all you, move forward.


    Obviously best course of action now is to find somewhere to rent properly. Hmm.
    Or perhaps it'll all sort itself out, and you'll be exchanged by the end of the week.
    • Tootling
    • By Tootling 10th Apr 18, 11:26 AM
    • 36 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    Tootling
    Although at this point you are too wound up to see it, that solicitor is actually doing something that may turn out to be giving you a degree of protection too, somewhere much further down the line.

    I assume that you don't want to find twenty years from now and many thousands of pounds paid out in mortgage etc that some glitch that the solicitor over-ruled, which failed to protect his "%^&*" clients, has led to an unsolveable problem with the lease, exorbitant maintenance/repair costs to which you are legally obliged to contribute, an incomplete Land Registry entry, uncertainty over true ownership, an unresolved boundary dispute..etc, etc.

    Concentrate on cultivating patience, take a walk in the park each evening, anything that takes the sting out of your current frustration.

    Hating, by the way, hurts the hater far, far more than the hated! Good luck.
    Originally posted by paddy's mum
    That's a good point. And i know i have got myself way too worked up about this all. Especially yesterday.

    I can't say I'm too bothered about the effects of the undertaking seeing as it doesn't effect me apart from holding everyone else up.

    One reason why i never want to buy a place with a leasehold. Too much faffing about!
    • Tootling
    • By Tootling 10th Apr 18, 11:46 AM
    • 36 Posts
    • 29 Thanks
    Tootling

    So they spent real money on all the legals, surveys etc on one property - then just changed their mind, wasting that money completely, on a whim - just to annoy the rest of the chain?
    No, but had we been in the same situation we'd have not gone directly into another purchase or at least would not have given assurances that you are able to exchange by a certain date which clearly would not be possible given that it was a less than a month between then and the suggested exchange. I would either have given up on said purchase, gone into rental or said that it is unlikely i can meet that exchange date due to xyz. Or if have asked my lender if i could break the chain whilst still going ahead with the purchase after having moved somewhere temporary. And the lender would have said yes you can or, alas no you can't and then if have been honest about that.

    Perhaps there is - or perhaps it'll cost more or t
    Or perhaps it'll all sort itself out, and you'll be exchanged by the end of the week.
    Been saying that for the least month and a half. I realise this seems to be quite normal unfortunately.
    Originally posted by AdrianC
    Typing on my phone is utterly impossible.
    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 10th Apr 18, 11:49 AM
    • 18,413 Posts
    • 16,624 Thanks
    AdrianC
    One reason why i never want to buy a place with a leasehold.
    Originally posted by Tootling
    You don't even know this undertaking is related to the freehold. You are still assuming...
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