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  • FIRST POST
    • simon2018
    • By simon2018 9th Apr 18, 7:18 PM
    • 28Posts
    • 22Thanks
    simon2018
    Private and confidential papers
    • #1
    • 9th Apr 18, 7:18 PM
    Private and confidential papers 9th Apr 18 at 7:18 PM
    I've been off sick from work because of my manager.

    I had a sickness review last week.

    My manager, she always ignored me and talks through the three other staff about 70/80% of the time
    unless I'm the only other person there.

    On Friday, one of my colleagues rang me to say that the manager had sent my sickness review
    to him and he had to print it off and leave one copy in my
    'in tray,' and post the other. I have not received the sickness review as yet

    The colleague that printed off the sickness review is on the same grade as I am, and not my supervisor/manager etc but a fellow work colleague.

    The sickness review details my personal details and sickness diagnoses.

    I feel even worse now that other people that have no right to know about my sickness details, address, Dob, etc, etc may be aware of it. The manager could have easily don it herself as she is back at work tomorrow. Even if she was not at work, the route she used to have my details printed/etc breaches my privacy/confiedentialty.

    I want her sacked.

    Where do I stand?

    FYI - the company is a big company and has several thousand staff but I', in one of their satellite offices.

    Thanks

    ps - the same manager that left my personal details lying around a couple of months ago.
    Last edited by simon2018; 09-04-2018 at 7:20 PM.
Page 1
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 9th Apr 18, 7:31 PM
    • 4,812 Posts
    • 5,130 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    • #2
    • 9th Apr 18, 7:31 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Apr 18, 7:31 PM
    The only way to take it forward is to make a formal complaint to HR or to senior management if there is no HR department. Lay out in detail what happened and see what happens. As, in this instance, another member of staff was involved you may have a stronger case.
    • Takeaway_Addict
    • By Takeaway_Addict 9th Apr 18, 7:31 PM
    • 5,779 Posts
    • 6,651 Thanks
    Takeaway_Addict
    • #3
    • 9th Apr 18, 7:31 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Apr 18, 7:31 PM
    I've been off sick from work because of my manager.

    I had a sickness review last week.

    My manager, she always ignored me and talks through the three other staff about 70/80% of the time
    unless I'm the only other person there.

    On Friday, one of my colleagues rang me to say that the manager had sent my sickness review
    to him and he had to print it off and leave one copy in my
    'in tray,' and post the other. I have not received the sickness review as yet

    The colleague that printed off the sickness review is on the same grade as I am, and not my supervisor/manager etc but a fellow work colleague.

    The sickness review details my personal details and sickness diagnoses.

    I feel even worse now that other people that have no right to know about my sickness details, address, Dob, etc, etc may be aware of it. The manager could have easily don it herself as she is back at work tomorrow. Even if she was not at work, the route she used to have my details printed/etc breaches my privacy/confiedentialty.

    I want her sacked.

    Where do I stand?

    FYI - the company is a big company and has several thousand staff but I', in one of their satellite offices.

    Thanks

    ps - the same manager that left my personal details lying around a couple of months ago.
    Originally posted by simon2018
    Unless they want her gone she isn't going to be sacked.

    Raise a grievance and let the process take its course.

    Though realistically if they're not moving you to another position it probably means they are waiting you out and managing you out.

    Have you made any contingency plans to move on?
    Don't trust a forum for advice. Get proper paid advice. Any advice given should always be checked
    • BorisThomson
    • By BorisThomson 9th Apr 18, 7:32 PM
    • 1,502 Posts
    • 3,168 Thanks
    BorisThomson
    • #4
    • 9th Apr 18, 7:32 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Apr 18, 7:32 PM
    I've been off sick from work because of my manager.

    I had a sickness review last week.

    My manager, she always ignored me and talks through the three other staff about 70/80% of the time
    unless I'm the only other person there.

    On Friday, one of my colleagues rang me to say that the manager had sent my sickness review
    to him and he had to print it off and leave one copy in my
    'in tray,' and post the other. I have not received the sickness review as yet

    The colleague that printed off the sickness review is on the same grade as I am, and not my supervisor/manager etc but a fellow work colleague.

    The sickness review details my personal details and sickness diagnoses.

    I feel even worse now that other people that have no right to know about my sickness details, address, Dob, etc, etc may be aware of it. The manager could have easily don it herself as she is back at work tomorrow. Even if she was not at work, the route she used to have my details printed/etc breaches my privacy/confiedentialty.

    I want her sacked.

    Where do I stand?

    FYI - the company is a big company and has several thousand staff but I', in one of their satellite offices.

    Thanks

    ps - the same manager that left my personal details lying around a couple of months ago.
    Originally posted by simon2018
    Previous thread

    The only person that will come out of this badly is you. You need to get a new job.
    • Detroit
    • By Detroit 9th Apr 18, 8:43 PM
    • 748 Posts
    • 2,330 Thanks
    Detroit
    • #5
    • 9th Apr 18, 8:43 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Apr 18, 8:43 PM
    As others have said, put in a grievance. However, don't count too much on your colleague sticking to the story they told you when it comes to the investigation.

    By calling you with this information they will not have covered themselves in glory as far as your manager is concerned. When they realize this may have implications for them, they may not be the supportive witness you hope for.

    Incidentally, it is not uncommon for non management staff such as administrators working for management, to see personal documents about colleagues on the same or higher grades than themselves.

    Someone has to do the typing, printing and filing, and it's not always the manager themselves. Confidentiality is rarely absolute between manager and staff member.

    Placing the document in an in tray where they can be seen by all and sundry is a different matter, but your manager may claim that that was not her instruction.


    Put your hands up.
    • simon2018
    • By simon2018 9th Apr 18, 10:24 PM
    • 28 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    simon2018
    • #6
    • 9th Apr 18, 10:24 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Apr 18, 10:24 PM
    thanks all, very helpful.

    Talked to my works friend/colleague that got the email. There is a trail from the manager to him and he has kindly forwarded the email to my works address. (even if emails are deleted, I know for a fact they can be found again) Therefore, solid evidence of the route of the email and the instructions to print off, etc. The friend/workmate is not admin for management but a processing member of staff who's duty is to man the phones, book the appointments and process invoices, nothing material whatsoever.

    There have been many incidents if some had read my previous thread, but all difficult to prove.
    The manager even told a workmate that I'd reported her. But this email with all of the contemporaneous notes I have made, should help?

    I tried to rign Acas tonight but lines busy and on hold for 25 mins and closed lines, so no joy.

    This is a realtively big organsation with my main office about 40 miles from where we work.

    In my judgement, if anyone is aware of confidentiality/privacy issues it has to be the manager. The letter is clearly marked private/confidential. Details my address, date of birth, list of medicals, reasons I have given and my workmate as I said was told to print off as stated earlier.

    I hate this manager as she is a bully, bullied the others to an extent, but lot less. No one wants to back the other as they fear of losing their livelihoods.

    Please give me clear/simple guidance how to best tie this in with all of my other evidence where she
    talks down to me, intimidates me, belittles me in front of other staff, shouted at me, flouts health and safety at work, EG go on the shop floor with no hi-vis jacket at times, poked her finger in my chest, grabbed my works telephone off me to take to a customer, and many more items documents over the last few months.

    I want to leave, ready to leave but my dad said to me if you "run once, you keep on running," so
    I am going to see this through though I'm losing money and my health as I have thrown up
    at the thought of going back to work. I've never hit a woman before but I am coming close as she is an evil, nasty, sick.....

    Sorry, my emotions are getting the better of me and want this bully not just to lose her job, but hope the process makes her a better person.

    No one will back me up as too fearful, I'm lost, but this incident should help me.

    Please guide me.

    Thank you.
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 9th Apr 18, 11:10 PM
    • 2,411 Posts
    • 2,332 Thanks
    steampowered
    • #7
    • 9th Apr 18, 11:10 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Apr 18, 11:10 PM
    I want her sacked.

    Where do I stand?
    Originally posted by simon2018
    The law says that an employer is entitled to manage personal data (including sensitive personal data like health information) if necessary to do in connection with employment.

    A situation like this is open to debate. If it was not necessary for the colleague to see the data, it may be a breach of data protection legislation. If the employer can claim that it was necessary for them to see it, for example in order for that employee to perform their administrative duties, then the fact they saw the data is legally allowed.

    Even if there was a technical breach of data protection legislation, it would be an extremely minor breach.

    Living in the real world, there is zero possibility of the manager getting sacked over this. So get that thought out of your head.

    You can complain if you want but it sounds like that will achieve nothing, other than further annoying your employer.

    I want to leave, ready to leave but my dad said to me if you "run once, you keep on running," so
    I am going to see this through though I'm losing money and my health as I have thrown up at the thought of going back to work. I've never hit a woman before but I am coming close as she is an evil, nasty, sick.....
    Originally posted by simon2018
    It sounds like the best thing you can do is to resign and take another job.

    Focussing your attention on getting revenge on this manager won't help you get better.

    Even if you did win some sort of legal case - which would cause enormous stress and be at enormous cost to your emotional well being - it would be the company that would have to pay up, not the manager personally.

    There is no point putting yourself in a hole because of the issues you are having with the manager. Life is too short for that. Move on with your life.
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 10th Apr 18, 1:05 AM
    • 38,385 Posts
    • 34,988 Thanks
    Savvy_Sue
    • #8
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:05 AM
    • #8
    • 10th Apr 18, 1:05 AM
    Your dad might be wrong, at least this time. I'd say "pick your battles" and as Takeaway said, if they don't want her gone, she won't be sacked.

    I'm not a manager, but I get to handle everyone's fit notes as part of my duties. Another non-managerial colleague would see any formal sickness reviews.

    Did your colleague leave your information open in your in-tray, or did they put it in a sealed envelope? If the former, they have breached confidentiality too, so are likely to be disciplined for that if you land them in it.

    And if they say "the evil manager told me to do that", I'm prepared to bet that the manager did NOT say "Don't put it in an envelope, just leave it there once you've printed it." It's the kind of instruction ("put it in an envelope") that I'd only feel I needed to give a teenager on work experience. Marking the envelope "private and confidential" is a nice touch, but sealed with your name on is adequate.
    Still knitting!
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    • BrassicWoman
    • By BrassicWoman 10th Apr 18, 7:00 AM
    • 1,519 Posts
    • 6,427 Thanks
    BrassicWoman
    • #9
    • 10th Apr 18, 7:00 AM
    • #9
    • 10th Apr 18, 7:00 AM
    I've been off sick from work because of my manager.
    Originally posted by simon2018
    Your sick note will not say "your manager." It will say something like anxiety.

    I suspect the real reason you are off sick is because of your inability to establish a good working reationship with your manager; and your seeking out what are in the scheme of things petty reasons for revenge is not going to help. No big boss is going to swoop down from the heavens an exact justice on your behalf.

    Have you considered a cup of tea and a chat about how you can both work better together?
    Jan 18 grocery challenge £105.13/ £150
    • keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • By keepcalmandstayoutofdebt 10th Apr 18, 7:35 AM
    • 3,131 Posts
    • 1,632 Thanks
    keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    I've been off sick from work because of my manager.

    .
    Originally posted by simon2018
    Time to leave. While you can.

    Is going of sick not running from your problems in some instances.
    Last edited by keepcalmandstayoutofdebt; 10-04-2018 at 7:37 AM. Reason: .
    "If you are caught in a rainstorm, once you accept that you'll receive a soaking, the only thing left to do is enjoy the walk"
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 10th Apr 18, 8:34 AM
    • 4,812 Posts
    • 5,130 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    The end result of your actions is unlikely to be the sacking of your manager. Disciplinary action is possible but, unless it can be proven that this is part of a pattern of actions, probably nothing much more than a slap on the wrist. Even if a pattern can be shown it's likely that a formal disciplinary procedure will have to be followed and that takes time.
    Irrespective of your father effectively telling you to 'man up' I believe you should be looking for new employment. I don't think you will ever be in a position where you enjoy working where you are, particularly if/when your desire to get the manager sacked fails.
    • simon2018
    • By simon2018 10th Apr 18, 9:01 AM
    • 28 Posts
    • 22 Thanks
    simon2018
    Thank you all.

    I have complained against her before and the findings were my words against his. I was offered a move
    to another office 30 miles from home and I said no. Things improved for a short wile but built up again
    anf other co workers have noted that I'm being bullied but to scared to say so.

    This time I have about 20 recored events and time when he tried to bully me and who was present. Information about this email and can be traced. Three people that come into the office for meetings that appraoced me and asked me why I was being treated like that, ie manager speaking down to me. Though I did not ask for their consent, I have dated, timed what they said and named them.

    My papers went missing once. As I never move anyhting off my desk, cabinets out of the office I can only conclude it wher my manager.

    Thanks
    • ohreally
    • By ohreally 10th Apr 18, 9:03 AM
    • 6,572 Posts
    • 5,066 Thanks
    ohreally
    I hate this manager as she is a bully, bullied the others to an extent, but lot less.
    Originally posted by simon2018
    Hate is a destructive emotion that will end up eating away at every fibre of your being. For your own good you need to change your mindset or this situation will consume you.

    I do understand your position however pick your battles with care, thereís no mileage in this exercise if your end game is to see your manager sacked, it ainít going to happen unless your employer is looking to exit her out the door anyway.

    Document situations as and when and look to others to be likeminded for support.

    As much as it sticks in your craw, consider building bridges and improve your working relationship.
    Donít be a canít, be a can.
    • pmduk
    • By pmduk 10th Apr 18, 9:38 AM
    • 8,287 Posts
    • 6,108 Thanks
    pmduk
    The gender of this manager keeps changing, has anyone else noticed?
    • steampowered
    • By steampowered 10th Apr 18, 9:46 AM
    • 2,411 Posts
    • 2,332 Thanks
    steampowered
    This situation seems to be consuming you. It sounds to me like the best thing you can do is resign and get another job.

    Think about where you want to be in 6 months time. Happily employed in a new job? Or still off sick venting about your manager?

    It doesn't matter how many 'recorded incidents' you have, it is extremely unlikely that your manager will get sacked. The best revenge is moving on with your life.
    • bigisi
    • By bigisi 10th Apr 18, 10:21 AM
    • 121 Posts
    • 224 Thanks
    bigisi
    The gender of this manager keeps changing, has anyone else noticed?
    Originally posted by pmduk
    Yes but then the OP's grammar and typing skills don't seem to be very good so I put it down to that.
    • nicechap
    • By nicechap 10th Apr 18, 10:29 AM
    • 1,034 Posts
    • 2,259 Thanks
    nicechap
    The gender of this manager keeps changing, has anyone else noticed?
    Originally posted by pmduk
    Yes, maybe the OP has a thing against trans people?

    Thank you all.

    I have complained against her before and the findings were my words against ]his. I was offered a move
    to another office 30 miles from home and I said no. That sounds like a mistakeThings improved for a short wile but built up again
    anf other co workers have noted that I'm being bullied but to scared to say so.Or have pacified you to try to make you feel better and in reality don't want to get involved?

    This time I have about 20 recored events and time when he tried to bully me and who was present. Information about this email and can be traced. Three people that come into the office for meetings that appraoced me and asked me why I was being treated like that, ie manager speaking down to me. Though I did not ask for their consent, I have dated, timed what they said and named them.

    My papers went missing once. As I never move anyhting off my desk, cabinets out of the office I can only conclude it wher my manager. And therein lies the solution - anyone could have moved your papers - a cleaner, a colleague, someone hotdesking, and even if it was your manager I would expect them to be entitled to do it if you've been told to keep your desk clear but don't.

    Thanks
    Originally posted by simon2018
    You see monsters and conspiracies where there are none. Your biggest problem is inside your own head and until you resolve that you are going to remain one very unhappy person - I was going to say employee but they way you behave I expect you not to be employed much longer.
    Quote was right and saw into the future.
    • Les79
    • By Les79 10th Apr 18, 10:49 AM
    • 139 Posts
    • 186 Thanks
    Les79
    Hate is a destructive emotion that will end up eating away at every fibre of your being. For your own good you need to change your mindset or this situation will consume you.

    I do understand your position however pick your battles with care, thereís no mileage in this exercise if your end game is to see your manager sacked, it ainít going to happen unless your employer is looking to exit her out the door anyway.

    Document situations as and when and look to others to be likeminded for support.

    As much as it sticks in your craw, consider building bridges and improve your working relationship.
    Originally posted by ohreally
    I agree with this post.

    If you try and see things in a different light, you quickly realise that the other person is just a fellow human being doing a job. They have their own set of ambitions, desires, quirks, likes and dislikes. Maybe you are chalk and cheese, rubbing each other the wrong way but in reality you do have sort of acclimatize and adapt a bit, more so when THEY are in charge!

    OP, if you were to get another job you do realise that the sort of boss you get is a bit of pot luck?! You could actually end up with a WORSE boss than the one you've got! It could be better mind you, that's the risk you take. And that's discounting the possibility that YOU precipitate most of the issues (which seems likely).

    By all means go for it here, put in a complaint and maybe also contact the ICO. Just be mindful that your job is at risk right now, even if that involves being subtly managed out (and even if you don't think so right now)! The adage "pick your battles" rings true and, even if you've pushed a bit too far in the past (what you seem to be doing now), it can GENERALLY be repairable as long as you haven't crossed that final line! So if you wanted to change your tune and try and be more amicable with your boss then you *may* fare inherently better!

    Good luck like, but I think you should be focusing most of your energy on either of the following two right now:

    1. Repairing relationships with manager

    2. Seeking a new job

    I'll finish my post with the exact same phrase as my last post:

    "This all just seems like a prelude to universal credit and 6 months off work due to stress."
    • AstroTurtle
    • By AstroTurtle 10th Apr 18, 11:27 AM
    • 127 Posts
    • 485 Thanks
    AstroTurtle
    Thank you all.

    I have complained against her before and the findings were my words against his. I was offered a move
    to another office 30 miles from home and I said no. Things improved for a short wile but built up again
    anf other co workers have noted that I'm being bullied but to scared to say so.

    This time I have about 20 recored events and time when he tried to bully me and who was present. Information about this email and can be traced. Three people that come into the office for meetings that appraoced me and asked me why I was being treated like that, ie manager speaking down to me. Though I did not ask for their consent, I have dated, timed what they said and named them.

    My papers went missing once. As I never move anyhting off my desk, cabinets out of the office I can only conclude it wher my manager.

    Thanks
    Originally posted by simon2018

    Are you on about the same person? you keep saying He/She/Her/His.


    My advice is the same advice as the last thread, You can put your story across your way which may be correct but they will put across their story.


    Just because people agree with you doesn't make it a instant win.


    As for Private and Confidential it doesn't seem out the ordinary for people within the company to process such data if they have a specific purpose too.


    Even people below pay grades can process employee data (I.E Accounts teams processing CEO salary or sick pay)


    You are repeatedly clutching at weak straws to try and get some form of revenge when you could channel all this energy into finding a new job that makes you happy.


    Also slight edit if you continue to have absences you could find yourself unemployed due to repeated absence and they will have won.
    • Cheeky_Monkey
    • By Cheeky_Monkey 10th Apr 18, 11:28 AM
    • 1,627 Posts
    • 3,339 Thanks
    Cheeky_Monkey
    My money is on the OP getting sacked rather than the manager!
    I used to be indecisive - now I'm not so sure
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