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  • FIRST POST
    • Mrscl
    • By Mrscl 9th Apr 18, 11:08 AM
    • 7Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Mrscl
    Manager refusing day off when working notice
    • #1
    • 9th Apr 18, 11:08 AM
    Manager refusing day off when working notice 9th Apr 18 at 11:08 AM
    Iím currently working my one month notice, however, despite me telling my new employer I have a months notice period my start date is the 12th, with my official leaving date the 17th. This was just emailed to say Ďyouíll be starting the 12thí, there wasnít opportunity to discuss it. There is only one shift that clashes, so Iíve told my manager that unfortunately I wonít be able to work this Saturday and explained I need to attend my new job for training. Iíve given her a weeks notice of this, and sheís text me saying Iíll need to work and Iím required to work my notice.
    I totally appreciate this places her in a difficult position of finding cover, but itís one single day. Iíve given ample notice of this, and fully intend to complete the two shifts after this one day to complete my shifts until the 17th.
    In 2 and a half years Iíve never had a day off. Iíve never been late. Iíve never swapped a shift. This isnít a pattern, this is an unfortunate, but unavoidable, one off.
    Iím not prepared to upset my new employer, as Iíll be starting on a 3 month probation period, and as agreed at interview, Iíll need a shift in my second week off to attend a pre booked event. Itíll look incredibly bad to have the first Saturday off to oblige my old employer, then the second as well, agreed or not.
    I really donít want to leave on bad terms or upset anyone, although I can see this may be unavoidable. How can I delicately state I still wonít be working? Obviously Iím not concerned about them sacking me as Iím already leaving and do not require a reference. I wonít be attending work that day and thatís that. But I donít want to get drawn into an argument. Thereís just no point. I didnít want to Ďpull a sickyí as Iíd be working elsewhere so obviously not sick and Iíve got an idea itís fraud anyway, so I tried to be as fair as possible by giving plenty of notice. I work in retail if thatís at all relevant. Any advice is appreciated.
Page 1
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 9th Apr 18, 11:21 AM
    • 5,459 Posts
    • 11,306 Thanks
    marliepanda
    • #2
    • 9th Apr 18, 11:21 AM
    • #2
    • 9th Apr 18, 11:21 AM
    You!!!8217;ll simply have to not turn up to work and take it as unauthorised leave.

    You won!!!8217;t be paid for it. That!!!8217;s about it. You can!!!8217;t force them to allow it.
    • ReadingTim
    • By ReadingTim 9th Apr 18, 11:31 AM
    • 2,551 Posts
    • 3,631 Thanks
    ReadingTim
    • #3
    • 9th Apr 18, 11:31 AM
    • #3
    • 9th Apr 18, 11:31 AM
    Sounds like the error has been made by your new employer, not your current one, and whilst I can understand you don't want to upset said new employer, you do need to stand your ground when they are ignoring things that you have previously told them of, such as your official leave date from your previous employer, and thus your official start date with them.

    It's probably just a miscommunication - the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing, or a simple mistake. So inform them of the fact and go from there. If they are aware of this information and are ignoring it, then you might want to consider if that really is the sort of workplace or employer you really want to work for, given they have scant regard for contractual obligations.
    • Les79
    • By Les79 9th Apr 18, 11:38 AM
    • 129 Posts
    • 166 Thanks
    Les79
    • #4
    • 9th Apr 18, 11:38 AM
    • #4
    • 9th Apr 18, 11:38 AM
    I!!!8217;m currently working my one month notice, however, despite me telling my new employer I have a months notice period my start date is the 12th, with my official leaving date the 17th. This was just emailed to say !!!8216;you!!!8217;ll be starting the 12th!!!8217;, there wasn!!!8217;t opportunity to discuss it.
    Originally posted by Mrscl
    There is an opportunity to discuss it if you pick up the phone and give them a call....

    There is only one shift that clashes, so I!!!8217;ve told my manager that unfortunately I won!!!8217;t be able to work this Saturday and explained I need to attend my new job for training. I!!!8217;ve given her a weeks notice of this, and she!!!8217;s text me saying I!!!8217;ll need to work and I!!!8217;m required to work my notice.
    Why did you tell your manager that?! You said to the manager (via notice) that you could work until the 17th. Turning round and saying that your notice period has changed (shorter) will undoubtedly get people's backs up with you!

    Personally, I would have just not said anything and called in sick on the Saturday.

    I totally appreciate this places her in a difficult position of finding cover, but it!!!8217;s one single day.
    Yep, it places her in a difficult position because YOU and/or the new company messed up.

    I!!!8217;ve given ample notice of this,
    Well debatable. I think 1 months' notice is ample notice. I don't think 1 weeks' notice is though.

    In 2 and a half years I!!!8217;ve never had a day off. I!!!8217;ve never been late. I!!!8217;ve never swapped a shift. This isn!!!8217;t a pattern, this is an unfortunate, but unavoidable, one off.
    I hate it when people say stuff like this, as if it deserves an award!

    Well done for either being super healthy or being too foolish to not have a day off when you are ill.

    Not sure why not having done a shift swap is a point though.... I've done the odd shift swaps in work when, for example, something in my non-working life comes up (let's say training for a new job?). On that note, why aren't you seeking a shift swap now?? Seems to be a logical solution...


    I!!!8217;m not prepared to upset my new employer, as I!!!8217;ll be starting on a 3 month probation period, and as agreed at interview, I!!!8217;ll need a shift in my second week off to attend a pre booked event. It!!!8217;ll look incredibly bad to have the first Saturday off to oblige my old employer, then the second as well, agreed or not.
    I really don!!!8217;t want to leave on bad terms or upset anyone, although I can see this may be unavoidable. How can I delicately state I still won!!!8217;t be working? Obviously I!!!8217;m not concerned about them sacking me as I!!!8217;m already leaving and do not require a reference. I won!!!8217;t be attending work that day and that!!!8217;s that. But I don!!!8217;t want to get drawn into an argument. There!!!8217;s just no point. I didn!!!8217;t want to !!!8216;pull a sicky!!!8217; as I!!!8217;d be working elsewhere so obviously not sick and I!!!8217;ve got an idea it!!!8217;s fraud anyway, so I tried to be as fair as possible by giving plenty of notice. I work in retail if that!!!8217;s at all relevant. Any advice is appreciated.
    God knows! You haven't really set yourself up here. You should have queried the notice period once you found out the start date. In the absence of that I think your options are:

    - Source a shift swap
    - Pull a sickie (though your card is sort of marked now! Pure silliness on your part)
    - Unauthorised absence with current employer (doesn't reflect well but if you don't plan on using references from old company then may be an option)
    - Speak to the new company and raise the issue, as they may be able to change the day.
    - Unauthorised absence with new employer (get off on the wrong foot)

    So, of those options, I would rank them as:

    1. Talk to new company + raise issue
    2. Source a shift swap
    3. Pull a sickie
    4. Unauthorised Absence with current employer
    5. Unauthorised Absence with new employer

    You strike me as the sort of person who may skip straight to number 4 though :
    Last edited by Les79; 09-04-2018 at 11:41 AM.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 9th Apr 18, 11:42 AM
    • 4,810 Posts
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    TELLIT01
    • #5
    • 9th Apr 18, 11:42 AM
    • #5
    • 9th Apr 18, 11:42 AM
    You only have the right to request leave, not demand it. That's true at any time in your employment, not just once you've handed your notice in. If the new employer is demanding that you start on the 12th despite knowing you have to give a month's notice I would agree with the concerns raised by ReadingTim. You are in a difficult position but my first move would be to contact your new employer to see if the start date can be corrected. If not, I think you will just have to miss the shift with your current employer despite the fact that might burn bridges. If the new employment doesn't work out you might still need to go back to your current employer for a reference in the future.
    A somewhat different situation, but when I got a job at DWP they gave me a start date when I had told them at interview that I would be abroad on holiday. I phoned them and they sent a new start date for the following week. What would your new employer have done if you had holiday booked and paid for?
    Last edited by TELLIT01; 09-04-2018 at 11:45 AM.
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 9th Apr 18, 12:34 PM
    • 6,433 Posts
    • 8,321 Thanks
    TBagpuss
    • #6
    • 9th Apr 18, 12:34 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Apr 18, 12:34 PM
    I agree that this is your new employer's issue. Your notice period ends on 17th so you are not available to work until then. The best thing to do would be to contact the new employer, remind them that your notice period expires on 17th so you are not available on 12th. If you know what days you are available between 12th and 17th you could tell them that, and offer to come in on one of those days for training if they wish.

    Obviously it is also open to you to not show up at work on 12th. That would then be an unauthorised absence and would potentially affect any reference you may need from that employer in future. They could take disciplinary action against you. It's possible that deliberately not going in, working elsewhere after you have asked for, and been refused, time off might tip it into gross misconduct and result in them sacking you immediately, in which case you would not get paid for the last few days of your notice period.
    • keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • By keepcalmandstayoutofdebt 9th Apr 18, 1:00 PM
    • 3,120 Posts
    • 1,626 Thanks
    keepcalmandstayoutofdebt
    • #7
    • 9th Apr 18, 1:00 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Apr 18, 1:00 PM
    As another poster advises shift swap and I would offer to work an extra day to old employer as compensation/thanks to them.

    What sort of new employer operates in this manner. Please ask yourself -unless there is more to it - someone desperate for you to start whilst unable to grasp youíre in notice period never bodes well.
    "If you are caught in a rainstorm, once you accept that you'll receive a soaking, the only thing left to do is enjoy the walk"
    • ohreally
    • By ohreally 9th Apr 18, 1:15 PM
    • 6,570 Posts
    • 5,062 Thanks
    ohreally
    • #8
    • 9th Apr 18, 1:15 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Apr 18, 1:15 PM
    Alarm bells would be ringing re your new employer and their position on this.

    Is this move really worth it?
    Donít be a canít, be a can.
    • matt1976
    • By matt1976 9th Apr 18, 1:21 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    matt1976
    • #9
    • 9th Apr 18, 1:21 PM
    • #9
    • 9th Apr 18, 1:21 PM
    Be strong and tell your new employer AGAIN that you are working your notice. Tell them a day you will start and be firm. They sound desperate to me, I'd be concerned what type of company you are joining.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 9th Apr 18, 2:22 PM
    • 4,810 Posts
    • 5,126 Thanks
    TELLIT01

    Obviously it is also open to you to not show up at work on 12th. That would then be an unauthorised absence and would potentially affect any reference you may need from that employer in future. They could take disciplinary action against you. It's possible that deliberately not going in, working elsewhere after you have asked for, and been refused, time off might tip it into gross misconduct and result in them sacking you immediately, in which case you would not get paid for the last few days of your notice period.
    Originally posted by TBagpuss
    As the OP has been with the company over 2 years they would need to go through a formal disciplinary process before sacking him, or they would be just as much in the wrong as the OP. Note, I am not condoning the idea of just not turning up for the shift.
    Regarding a future reference, it wouldn't simply be a case of unauthorised absence, it would be absence which had specifically been denied following a leave request. I would imagine any future employer would take an even worse view of that action than a simple 'no show'.
    • xapprenticex
    • By xapprenticex 10th Apr 18, 6:35 PM
    • 1,419 Posts
    • 1,360 Thanks
    xapprenticex
    Its easy for us to tell you what to do, you have to do whats best for you. If you end up with no job and no money none of us here will be helping with that.
    • TBagpuss
    • By TBagpuss 11th Apr 18, 11:19 AM
    • 6,433 Posts
    • 8,321 Thanks
    TBagpuss
    As the OP has been with the company over 2 years they would need to go through a formal disciplinary process before sacking him, or they would be just as much in the wrong as the OP. Note, I am not condoning the idea of just not turning up for the shift.
    Regarding a future reference, it wouldn't simply be a case of unauthorised absence, it would be absence which had specifically been denied following a leave request. I would imagine any future employer would take an even worse view of that action than a simple 'no show'.
    Originally posted by TELLIT01
    Yes, that was the point I was making.

    The disciplinary process can be done very quickly in a gross misconduct case.
    • TELLIT01
    • By TELLIT01 11th Apr 18, 11:31 AM
    • 4,810 Posts
    • 5,126 Thanks
    TELLIT01
    Yes, that was the point I was making.

    The disciplinary process can be done very quickly in a gross misconduct case.
    Originally posted by TBagpuss
    Agreed, but if the company is basically supportive of the manager they can also string it out a long time.
    • shortcrust
    • By shortcrust 11th Apr 18, 11:39 AM
    • 1,734 Posts
    • 2,473 Thanks
    shortcrust
    Why on earth didn't you send an immediate reply along the lines of "sorry but there's been some confusion, my current role doesn't finish until 17 April..."? Things like that happen all the time when people start new jobs. It's just part of the process. The idea that the new employer would be 'upset' even in the smallest way is daft.
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