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  • FIRST POST
    • Johan_Viktor
    • By Johan_Viktor 8th Apr 18, 3:38 PM
    • 5Posts
    • 2Thanks
    Johan_Viktor
    MyParkingCharge (Excel Parking) - Scotland
    • #1
    • 8th Apr 18, 3:38 PM
    MyParkingCharge (Excel Parking) - Scotland 8th Apr 18 at 3:38 PM
    Hi All,

    (Johan Viktor is not my real name but a pseudonym, in case there's any concern)

    Sorry to be a pain but thought I'd make a post to request some assistance.

    My vehicle was issued with a "PCN" as Excel conveniently call it when parked in Dundee, visiting a retail unit (which had customer parking bays!)

    The vehicle was issued with a ticket for "Not displaying a permit" - despite the signs not clearly stating how to obtain a permit!

    I (foolishly, I know!) appealed the charge using the myparkingcharge website providing evidence that I was at the unit I stated the entire time, having not left and detailing that I was in fact the driver. Unsurprisingly, this "appeal" got rejected and I'm now still allegedly on the hook for 100 (60 reduced fee.)

    I live in Scotland, and the vehicle is kept in Scotland. As such, my question to you wise folks is that having made the foolish mistake of naming myself as the driver, should I just pay the 60 to avoid any further action, or should I sit it out?

    Thanks!
Page 1
    • Redx
    • By Redx 8th Apr 18, 3:57 PM
    • 17,771 Posts
    • 22,397 Thanks
    Redx
    • #2
    • 8th Apr 18, 3:57 PM
    • #2
    • 8th Apr 18, 3:57 PM
    your choice , the smart money was on ignoring as there is no keeper liability in scotland

    but a driver is fair game , especially those who blab

    get the landowner to cancel it, thats your best option
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 8th Apr 18, 4:04 PM
    • 10,400 Posts
    • 9,646 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    • #3
    • 8th Apr 18, 4:04 PM
    • #3
    • 8th Apr 18, 4:04 PM
    It's a calculated risk. You no longer have the protection of "I am the keeper. Good luck in finding the driver" so it is simply this. Have you any decent evidence to show that the charge is unwarranted.

    Explain more about the permit business, please. Are permits issued only to authorised vehicles and were you, therefore, technically trespassing? Should the business you were visiting have pre-issued you with a customer permit? Are the signs clearly inadequate?

    It comes down to (a) will they take you to court and (b) can you mount a decent enough defence to win there?

    If that;s a YES followed by a NO, then mitigate your losses
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 8th Apr 18, 4:12 PM
    • 9,023 Posts
    • 8,691 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #4
    • 8th Apr 18, 4:12 PM
    • #4
    • 8th Apr 18, 4:12 PM
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Johan_Viktor
    • By Johan_Viktor 8th Apr 18, 5:40 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Johan_Viktor
    • #5
    • 8th Apr 18, 5:40 PM
    • #5
    • 8th Apr 18, 5:40 PM
    Explain more about the permit business, please. Are permits issued only to authorised vehicles and were you, therefore, technically trespassing? Should the business you were visiting have pre-issued you with a customer permit? Are the signs clearly inadequate?
    Originally posted by Guys Dad
    The permit business: On the business park where the vehicle was parked, there are signs that show the following (picture link below (obfuscated due to being unable to post links - if someone could embed the image in this thread it would be greatly appreciated!), with site number obscured):

    1) The number to call is obscured so the full number can't be seen!
    2) There is no information as to how to obtain a permit, simply that one must be displayed.

    i[dot]imgur[dot]com/0wnSxvN.jpg

    Thanks!
    • Redx
    • By Redx 8th Apr 18, 5:43 PM
    • 17,771 Posts
    • 22,397 Thanks
    Redx
    • #6
    • 8th Apr 18, 5:43 PM
    • #6
    • 8th Apr 18, 5:43 PM
    live link

    https://i.imgur.com/0wnSxvN.jpg
    Newbies !!
    Private Parking ticket? check the 2 sticky threads by coupon-mad and crabman in the Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking Board forum for the latest advice or maybe try pepipoo or C.A.G. or legal beagles forums if you need legal advice as well because this parking forum is not about debt collectors or legal matters per se
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 8th Apr 18, 5:47 PM
    • 6,601 Posts
    • 5,775 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #7
    • 8th Apr 18, 5:47 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Apr 18, 5:47 PM
    https://i.imgur.com/0wnSxvN.jpg

    Disappointing to see that one of the nails fixing that notice to the wall completely obliterates one digit of the helpline phone number.

    That sign shows that if any contract has been agreed by the motorist, it is with VCS - Vehicle Control Services Limited.

    You mention Excel in your opening post.
    Although a sister company, it is a completely separate legal entity.

    We've seen this confusion before.
    Last edited by KeithP; 08-04-2018 at 5:53 PM.
    .
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 8th Apr 18, 5:53 PM
    • 17,253 Posts
    • 27,171 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #8
    • 8th Apr 18, 5:53 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Apr 18, 5:53 PM
    That's a VCS sign, not an Excel one. While they are sister companies, they are separate business entities.

    Any purported contract is with VCS; Excel are strangers to that contract and have no locus to sue.

    Ignore anything further unless they make a mad attempt at a court case where you'll have a pretty formidable defence point.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th Apr 18, 6:16 PM
    • 56,112 Posts
    • 69,772 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 8th Apr 18, 6:16 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Apr 18, 6:16 PM
    my question to you wise folks is that having made the foolish mistake of naming myself as the driver, should I just pay the 60 to avoid any further action,
    No.

    A sign from VCS creates no contract with Excel. You have a defence right there, and it's not a technicality.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Johan_Viktor
    • By Johan_Viktor 8th Apr 18, 7:20 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Johan_Viktor
    Great! Just one final point;

    Emails that have been arriving have been from "Excel Parking Services Ltd"
    Correspondence attached to the emails have the header & footer "Vehicle Control Services Ltd"

    Interesting email tactic!

    This, combined with the obscurement of the sign (even shown on VCS's photographic proof) should be a reasonable enough case even in the unlikely case it gets taken to court?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 8th Apr 18, 7:29 PM
    • 17,253 Posts
    • 27,171 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    This, combined with the obscurement of the sign (even shown on VCS's photographic proof) should be a reasonable enough case even in the unlikely case it gets taken to court?
    We've never dealt with a Sheriff Court case here, so impossible to say. Even in England/Wales where the forum has dealt with hundreds, we would likely say they're decent points of defence, but the Judge will decide.

    We have to say that occasionally we get rogue decisions. Known locally as 'Judge bingo'.
    Last edited by Umkomaas; 08-04-2018 at 9:07 PM.
    We cannot provide you with a silver bullet to get you out of this. You have to be in for the long run, and need to involve yourself in research and work for you to get rid of this. It is not simple. We will help, but can't do it for you.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th Apr 18, 7:33 PM
    • 56,112 Posts
    • 69,772 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    VCS do try some claims in Scotland, so it's not completely unlikely.

    But if Excel issue a claim, when the signs are in the name 'VCS' your defence must cover that.

    What name was on the PCN?

    Oh, I remember, it wasn't a PCN was it, this was a fake 'myparkingcharge' one.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Johan_Viktor
    • By Johan_Viktor 8th Apr 18, 7:51 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Johan_Viktor
    Correct, it wasn't a PCN - it was a yellow bit of paper that has the letters "PCN" on it, but absolutely is not a PCN
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th Apr 18, 8:01 PM
    • 56,112 Posts
    • 69,772 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    So it didn't even give you a clue if it purportedly came from VCS or Excel, yet in subsequent comms, you are given the distinct impression that the PPC is Excel (not VCS)?
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Guys Dad
    • By Guys Dad 8th Apr 18, 9:47 PM
    • 10,400 Posts
    • 9,646 Thanks
    Guys Dad
    The sign refers to terms and conditions. Where are they and where were they displayed?
    • Johan_Viktor
    • By Johan_Viktor 9th Apr 18, 9:33 AM
    • 5 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Johan_Viktor
    So it didn't even give you a clue if it purportedly came from VCS or Excel, yet in subsequent comms, you are given the distinct impression that the PPC is Excel (not VCS)?
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Correct - images of the paper on the windscreen are below (again, if someone could make these links live it would be appreciated) - I've hidden all the details specific to this case on the ticket.

    Front:i[dot]imgur[dot]com/EPcffNO.jpg

    Back: i[dot]imgur[dot]com/beBmVjO.jpg

    The sign refers to terms and conditions. Where are they and where were they displayed?
    Originally posted by Guys Dad
    The Terms and Conditions are the things displayed on the sign, are they not? Hence; "The below Terms & Conditions"
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 9th Apr 18, 9:50 AM
    • 2,544 Posts
    • 1,393 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    Here are your live links: -

    https://i.imgur.com/EPcffNO.jpg
    https://i.imgur.com/beBmVjO.jpg
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