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    • economic
    • By economic 7th Apr 18, 10:07 PM
    • 2,940Posts
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    economic
    Protecting wealth in case of divorce
    • #1
    • 7th Apr 18, 10:07 PM
    Protecting wealth in case of divorce 7th Apr 18 at 10:07 PM
    Hi

    My friend is getting married and is bringing in a lot more wealth then his fiance and so is worried in the unlikely event of a separation, that his wealth will not be protected.

    Is there a way to protect his wealth using Trusts? If so how can he do this and how long does it take? Does he need to do this before marriage?

    Thanks
Page 3
    • seven-day-weekend
    • By seven-day-weekend 8th Apr 18, 8:59 PM
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    seven-day-weekend
    I have been happily married for nearly 47 years and hope to be for many more.

    If I were to find myself widowed (which heaven forbid), I wouldn't want to marry again. If however I ever considered it, I would want my house and other assets that my husband and I had built up together, to go to our son, not to someone else, and then possibly his children.

    I would probably give them to my son before I got married. Therefore at the time of marriage they would not be my assets. I would expect any man I might be considering marrying to do the same.
    • 74jax
    • By 74jax 8th Apr 18, 9:01 PM
    • 4,635 Posts
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    74jax
    It doesn't seem romantic but divorce happens and if people saw it coming common sense says they wouldn't have married to begin with. We have life insurance and home insurance and car insurance......
    Are we talking thousands or hundreds of thousands or millions? I'm pretty sure any wealth would be fully investigated so if it were me I'd take out cash and stash it away. Not very secure but prevents a paper trail.
    Originally posted by Fireflyaway
    I agree. When I got married - the first time - I never in a million years thought it would end how it did.

    The fact hubby wanted a pre nup didn't bother me at all - I went in to the marriage, the same as the first, expecting it to last.
    Forty and fabulous, well that's what my cards say....
    • Tabbytabitha
    • By Tabbytabitha 8th Apr 18, 9:06 PM
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    Tabbytabitha
    I agree. When I got married - the first time - I never in a million years thought it would end how it did.

    The fact hubby wanted a pre nup didn't bother me at all - I went in to the marriage, the same as the first, expecting it to last.
    Originally posted by 74jax
    You did, but it wasn't you who wanted the pre nup. (Not implying that your husnad wasn't sincere, just pointing out a non sequitur.)
    Last edited by Tabbytabitha; 08-04-2018 at 9:10 PM.
    • 74jax
    • By 74jax 8th Apr 18, 9:15 PM
    • 4,635 Posts
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    74jax
    You did, but it wasn't you who wanted the pre nup. (Not implying that your husnad wasn't sincere, just pointing out a non sequitur.)
    Originally posted by Tabbytabitha
    Sorry, just got what you meant. Hhhmmmm ignore my point then.
    Forty and fabulous, well that's what my cards say....
    • Poor_Single_lady
    • By Poor_Single_lady 8th Apr 18, 9:31 PM
    • 1,361 Posts
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    Poor_Single_lady
    Risk of being verbally hit. My dad gave me the deposit for my flat 4 years ago. I have 4 years of equity - roughly 60K.
    Not to push the point but my dad worked hard for his family for 40 years to provide for his family. Not future ex-husbands.

    Those against pre-nups think that this should be a shared asset within the marriage following through to divorce.

    The thing Is (I find) a lot of single men in their 30s live with their parents and have no money. But have a lot to gain by marriage.
    So I don't think that an exhusband should benefit by getting my Dads money and I Would very much want to ring fence this as mine in the event of divorce.

    Nobody gets married planning for it not to work. But sometimes it doesn't.

    You don't really need to look very hard to find news stories of people having been conned by their lovers. By its nature love makes us vulnerable. And home ownership can be very attractive paticually if it is out of your reach.
    2017- 5 credit cards plus loan
    Overdraft And 1 credit card paid off.

    2018 plans - reduce debt
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 8th Apr 18, 9:59 PM
    • 12,155 Posts
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    unholyangel
    I agree with the varying degrees of Grey. I accept that there are many varying situations leading to a variety of outcome. In general I would still question the mentality of anyone who would happily take an asset that that they had no hand in building up. Your scenario about 10 years living together with one mainly at home minding kids etc well that is a joint asset. My post was to some of the posters who seem to suggest that once you marry well thats it they are entitled to everything even if they had no hand in it. That doesn't fit well with me. I did in my second paragraph make reference to other scenarios.
    Originally posted by Pay_me
    Sorry I shouldve clarified what I meant. Theres never any issue if the couple are in agreement. But issues come around when things sour. How many times have we had threads on here where someone used to be quite happy being the breadwinner with their partner staying home to take care of that side of things but when it comes to splitting up, all of a sudden they don't think the partner should be entitled to anything because they're the one who earned the money that paid for it.

    I can see both sides tbh. On one hand if you're not going to lose out, whats the incentive to make it work and if you really feel that way, why bother marrying at all. But on the other, why let others define what the rules of marriage should be for everyone.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • frannyj543
    • By frannyj543 8th Apr 18, 11:02 PM
    • 170 Posts
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    frannyj543
    All this talk of don't bother getting married then is just senseless. Imagine 1 of the couple have worked hard as a single person mortgage free, good investments and pension build up.

    Get married to someone who has nothing.

    Why should the 1st person risk losing half of everything they built up if it doesn't work out.

    We live in a real world. My cousin had a house and in good faith put his gf name on it. All she contributed to were bills. In the end relationship over and he had to pay her 40k. I don't know the exact ins and outs but let's just say he was an idiot. All the hard work and mortgage payments for nothing.
    • FBaby
    • By FBaby 9th Apr 18, 6:52 AM
    • 16,623 Posts
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    FBaby
    The issue is not with wanting to protect one's assets (although poorsinglelady, I find expecting inheritance from parents as tasteless), everyone is entitled to want to do that, and like seven-day-weekend, if something happened to my OH, I wouldn't want another man to benefit from what he worked hard to earn. I would therefore just not marry again, end of, not because that's the only way to avoid the issue but because I would feel that the fact I wouldn't want the above would mean I wouldn't be totally committed to my new partner and therefore marriage would not be right for us.

    You can still have a happy relationship with someone without being married to them as long as both are on the same understanding as to why marriage is not an option.
    • seven-day-weekend
    • By seven-day-weekend 9th Apr 18, 7:19 AM
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    seven-day-weekend
    The issue is not with wanting to protect one's assets (although poorsinglelady, I find expecting inheritance from parents as tasteless), everyone is entitled to want to do that, and like seven-day-weekend, if something happened to my OH, I wouldn't want another man to benefit from what he worked hard to earn. I would therefore just not marry again, end of, not because that's the only way to avoid the issue but because I would feel that the fact I wouldn't want the above would mean I wouldn't be totally committed to my new partner and therefore marriage would not be right for us.

    You can still have a happy relationship with someone without being married to them as long as both are on the same understanding as to why marriage is not an option.
    Originally posted by FBaby
    That is really how I feel too, but was just thinking what I'd do if I ever did want to marry.

    I don't think I would even want to live with someone, other than platonic friends.
    • pollypenny
    • By pollypenny 9th Apr 18, 8:08 AM
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    pollypenny
    I have been happily married for nearly 47 years and hope to be for many more.

    If I were to find myself widowed (which heaven forbid), I wouldn't want to marry again. If however I ever considered it, I would want my house and other assets that my husband and I had built up together, to go to our son, not to someone else, and then possibly his children.

    I would probably give them to my son before I got married. Therefore at the time of marriage they would not be my assets. I would expect any man I might be considering marrying to do the same.
    Originally posted by seven-day-weekend


    We have written wills each leaving our assets, including half the house, in trust so this can never happen.

    I would not marry again, though.
    Member #14 of SKI-ers club

    Words, words, they're all we have to go by!.

    (Pity they are mangled by this autocorrect!)
    • Poor_Single_lady
    • By Poor_Single_lady 9th Apr 18, 8:12 AM
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    Poor_Single_lady
    I didn't mention inheritance.

    I was referring specifically to the money my dad gave me to buy my flat. If my parents leave their house to the dogs home - that's up the them and as I have said previously I am at peace with that.
    2017- 5 credit cards plus loan
    Overdraft And 1 credit card paid off.

    2018 plans - reduce debt
    • seven-day-weekend
    • By seven-day-weekend 9th Apr 18, 8:37 AM
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    seven-day-weekend
    We have written wills each leaving our assets, including half the house, in trust so this can never happen.

    I would not marry again, though.
    Originally posted by pollypenny
    Yes, we have too. Would you believe I forgot that! If my husband were to die, then my son would already have inherited his estate.
    • Pollycat
    • By Pollycat 9th Apr 18, 9:19 AM
    • 19,693 Posts
    • 52,610 Thanks
    Pollycat
    I have been happily married for nearly 47 years and hope to be for many more.

    If I were to find myself widowed (which heaven forbid), I wouldn't want to marry again. If however I ever considered it, I would want my house and other assets that my husband and I had built up together, to go to our son, not to someone else, and then possibly his children.

    I would probably give them to my son before I got married. Therefore at the time of marriage they would not be my assets. I would expect any man I might be considering marrying to do the same.
    Originally posted by seven-day-weekend
    I can understand this ^^^^ when marrying for the second time when the people have assets built up over a lengthy period of time and both have children that they want to bequeath those assets to.

    However, in the OP's case - his 'friend's' money appears to have been gifted by his parents and the friend & his fiancee are young enough to be considering having a family.
    Hi

    My friend is buying a house with his fiance. He has agreed with his finance that since he is putting a lot more into the property (some of which has been gifted by his parents) that he needs some form of security if the worse were to happen (death of my friend or divorce) so that:

    - on death: some of the money my friend put into the house would go back to his parents and the rest would form part of his estate.

    - on divorce: money my friend contributed to the house purchase would be given back to him and not for example split 50-50 between the couple.

    Is a declaration of trust all that is needed to achieve the above? Can he have it stated in the declaration that he has to get back his share of contribution on divorce? would it be initial deposit or the house equity? Also what happens to the ongoing payments for the house like mortgage (which would be paid from a joint account)? Should my friend pay his proportion of equity for ongoing payments (as it will be unfair on his fiance if ongoing payments were split 50-50)?

    What about on death? what happens if he dies, is a trust enough or does a Will need to be drawn up too? Does one override the other for the property?

    Also should the house be owned as joint tenancy or tenants in common? What is best given his situation and can it be changed later without any stamp duty or other costs (except of course legal)?

    All this is for the short term until they have settled down and have a baby at which point things would obviously change. Its just security for my friend and his parents really.

    thanks
    Originally posted by economic
    And that's a very different scenario to bringing assets from a 47 year old marriage to another marriage.
    • takman
    • By takman 9th Apr 18, 12:03 PM
    • 3,267 Posts
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    takman
    If you think of it from a purely financial / logical perspective then you have to question what is the point of getting married?. There is very little financial and legal benefit to getting married especially when you consider the typical cost. So if anyone thinks they need a pre nup then really they shouldn't be getting married at all.

    The reason people get married is because they want to express their love and show their commitment in front of they friend and family. But you can have a wedding ceremony, say all the vows and do everything they do in a typical wedding ceremony but not be legally married. One of the couple can even change their name to match the other and it could be done so nobody knew any different.
    That's far better protection than any prenuptual agreement because you aren't legally married.

    Before anyone says about how it wouldn't be the same and it's not showing commitment then just consider Islamic couples who have a Nikah ceremony in the UK. They aren't legally recognised as married in the UK but it doesn't mean it doesn't show commitment.

    Also i think couples who aren't married but stay together for a long period of time show far more commitment than a couple who are still together simple because they "want to make the marriage work".
    • mattpaint
    • By mattpaint 9th Apr 18, 2:07 PM
    • 102 Posts
    • 163 Thanks
    mattpaint
    And not everybody thinks that divorce is likely when they marry - that seems to me to be truly immoral.
    Originally posted by Tabbytabitha
    Those who don't consider it are frankly living in cloud cuckoo land.
    • NBLondon
    • By NBLondon 9th Apr 18, 2:19 PM
    • 1,721 Posts
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    NBLondon
    The question didn't arise for us as we brought roughly equal amounts to the marriage. It does make more sense a second time around or if there are previous offspring involved. I guess if the previous assets were, say, a business - then there is good reason to be considering keeping them separate but that must be for good or bad.

    If you can't discuss it openly and honestly with your spouse to be without it threatening the marriage to be - then maybe that's as much a sign that you aren't as ready to marry as you think.
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    • sassy-one
    • By sassy-one 11th Apr 18, 3:46 PM
    • 2,255 Posts
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    sassy-one
    Spend all the money on the wedding, that way there won't be any need to worry about it!
    Life is to short to go on hating someone but there are some people who are pure evil and you are best far away as possible from.
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    • username12345678
    • By username12345678 17th Apr 18, 12:15 AM
    • 212 Posts
    • 108 Thanks
    username12345678
    Unless you are prepared to mentally accept that will lose 50% (or more) of what you have accumulated prior to marriage in the event of that marriage failing then you should not be going through with it.

    There does seem to be research that more and more twenty-somethings are avoiding committing to the institution partly, I suspect, because divorce can destroy a lifetimes worth of work.

    This subject pushed the buttons of my wife who can't understand how ex-spouses can have so little self-respect as to try and hide behind the law as a justification for trying to take as much as possible of what they haven't earned/accumulated.

    I'm a little more sanguine, if you get married then you should know the risks.
    • silvercar
    • By silvercar 23rd Apr 18, 5:32 PM
    • 37,127 Posts
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    silvercar
    I have been happily married for nearly 47 years and hope to be for many more.

    If I were to find myself widowed (which heaven forbid), I wouldn't want to marry again. If however I ever considered it, I would want my house and other assets that my husband and I had built up together, to go to our son, not to someone else, and then possibly his children.
    Originally posted by seven-day-weekend
    I used to have a real fear over this. If we divorced or anything happened to me, I had a real worry that my husband would re-marry (no problem with that part) but would then have more children or step-children who would inherit a share of what me and my husband had built up. If I can't be here I want our children to inherit in time, not anyone else.
    • DCFC79
    • By DCFC79 23rd Apr 18, 8:51 PM
    • 31,457 Posts
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    DCFC79
    You passed this advice onto your friend OP ?
    Can people stop loaning money/being a guarator to family/friends, it rarely ends well and you lose out as your money is gone or you get shafted with being a guarantor.
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