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  • FIRST POST
    • Laurendo
    • By Laurendo 7th Apr 18, 11:32 AM
    • 18Posts
    • 13Thanks
    Laurendo
    Identifying details in complaint to retailer
    • #1
    • 7th Apr 18, 11:32 AM
    Identifying details in complaint to retailer 7th Apr 18 at 11:32 AM
    Hi there

    Got a notice to keeper pcn letter today. Intend to appeal using the template in the newbies thread. Also plan to complain to retailer whose car park it is.

    Fine is for parking in child space and not getting out with a child. I actually wasn't driving, the letter includes pictures of me getting back in the car on the passenger side. Children were in car but made last second decision to just run in without them. They are babies and I think they were sleepy or something. There was some reason we didn't all go in anyway.

    Anyway my question is how much detail do I go into in my complaint? Do I outline the above or do I then risk that info being passed onto the enforcement company? Should the complain be generic or should I describe the circumstances basically.

    I know I need to avoid posting a new thread but couldn't find this.

    Thanks
Page 1
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 7th Apr 18, 11:39 AM
    • 37,208 Posts
    • 83,934 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #2
    • 7th Apr 18, 11:39 AM
    • #2
    • 7th Apr 18, 11:39 AM
    It is not a fine.

    What is the name of the PPC please, and the place where the driver parked?

    Don't go in to detail. Parent and child bays are just a gimmick and have no meaning in law, unlike the internationally recognised disabled bays.

    However in your case, the driver parked in a parent and child bay or whatever gimmick name was given to it. There was at least one parent and at least one child. Prove this did not meet the requirements on the signs.

    Get pics of the signs, floor markings, and of the entrance this will be needed later anyway.

    Show the landowner/retail manager the following, as well as your MP and Sir Greg Knight MP. Ask why an adult was out taking pictures of your children.

    These are some of the comments made by the MPs in Parliament concerning the unregulated parking industry (Feb 2018):

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

    ''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

    These are the exact words used, so you should quote them to your MP in a complaint and ask him/her to contact Sir Greg Knight MP if they want further information about this scam.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 07-04-2018 at 11:42 AM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 7th Apr 18, 11:39 AM
    • 9,968 Posts
    • 9,765 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #3
    • 7th Apr 18, 11:39 AM
    • #3
    • 7th Apr 18, 11:39 AM
    Does the sign say that the children must alight? If not they may struggle if it went to court.

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 7th Apr 18, 11:51 AM
    • 36,845 Posts
    • 20,983 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #4
    • 7th Apr 18, 11:51 AM
    • #4
    • 7th Apr 18, 11:51 AM
    Not a good idea to leave babies alone in a car park - think abduction/ collision/spontaneous combustion etc.

    Regards your question, no need to reveal who was driving. You are complaining as the keeper
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 7th Apr 18, 11:52 AM
    • 37,208 Posts
    • 83,934 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #5
    • 7th Apr 18, 11:52 AM
    • #5
    • 7th Apr 18, 11:52 AM
    Not a good idea to leave babies alone in a car park - think abduction/ collision/spontaneous combustion etc.

    Regards your question, no need to reveal who was driving. You are complaining as the keeper
    Originally posted by Quentin
    Since the OP said they were not the driver but a passenger, I assume someone else was, and they stayed in the car with the kids.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Laurendo
    • By Laurendo 7th Apr 18, 12:02 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Laurendo
    • #6
    • 7th Apr 18, 12:02 PM
    • #6
    • 7th Apr 18, 12:02 PM
    Thanks for the info.

    I didn't leave them alone, the driver stayed with them

    I might swing by in a bit and double check the signs. The spaces are combined disabled and child spaces which is weird in itself and not something I've ever seen before. Therefore the notice says "Reason for issue: parked in a disabled bay & failing to display a valid blue badge, parked in a child and parent bay whilst unaccompanied out of the vehicle by a child 12 years or less". Company is National parking enforcement. Says on back IPC member not BPA. It's a shop car park.
    Last edited by Laurendo; 07-04-2018 at 3:09 PM.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 7th Apr 18, 12:14 PM
    • 37,208 Posts
    • 83,934 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    • #7
    • 7th Apr 18, 12:14 PM
    • #7
    • 7th Apr 18, 12:14 PM
    So you need to see what the signs and the bay markings say. Take pictures now for future reference.
    Send the template appeal anyway as IPC members normally only give 21 days. Appeal as keeper of course.

    I would say that mixing legally required disabled bays with gimmick bays is a no-no. This may affect people with a disability and thus breach the EA 2010. The blue badge scheme does not apply on private land in any case.

    Complain to the store manger, not customer services, and show them what MPs said about this unregulated parking scam, and ask why the shop is using scammers to harass genuine shoppers.
    Show receipts/redacted bank/CC card statements to show you are a regular shopper, and ask what are they going to do in order to keep you as a customer. Other shops are available.

    Complain to your MP and Sir Greg Knight MP.

    Leave negative feedback on the shop's social media page to warn other people about this scam.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 07-04-2018 at 12:20 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 7th Apr 18, 1:58 PM
    • 36,845 Posts
    • 20,983 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #8
    • 7th Apr 18, 1:58 PM
    • #8
    • 7th Apr 18, 1:58 PM
    Thanks for the info.

    I didn't leave them alone, the driver stayed with them .......

    ......Says on back IPC member not BPA. It's a shop car park.
    Originally posted by Laurendo
    No-one here would condone parking in a disabled spot just for the convenience of the non disabled passenger!


    (remove the id of the driver - throughout here you are advised never to reveal who was driving)


    Now we know the company is IPC member put your effort into getting this cancelled by the shop - appeals to IPC companies and the IAS are futile, and all you can do after sending the initial letter in the newbies faq is wait and see if they take legal action.


    Ignore all debt collecting letters etc, and only respond to a lbcca or court correspondence


    They have 6 years to take legal action.


    So success with the retailer will cut out this hassle
    • Laurendo
    • By Laurendo 7th Apr 18, 3:19 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Laurendo
    • #9
    • 7th Apr 18, 3:19 PM
    • #9
    • 7th Apr 18, 3:19 PM
    I agree that's the frustrating thing and wouldn't usually use one if kids not getting out. In this instance we made the decision for just one person to get out after we'd parked and I just hopped out. I didn't think anything of it as I was going to be quick and the other spaces were free.

    The signs do clearly say the rules though it's two signs full of text quite high so not the most accessible. I should have seen though. Looks like company is out to get what they can as also says you are not allowed to park there to use cash machine unless the shop is shut. How they'd police that with the cash point round the corner at the entrance to the shop is beyond me.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 7th Apr 18, 11:34 PM
    • 60,110 Posts
    • 73,243 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Company is National parking enforcement.
    Their signs DO have this thing about children under 12, we've seen this predatory scam before and this thread has the signage (so what really, you won't be paying):

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5721542

    Send the usual template, adding NOTHING.

    Then ignore them. Ignore the debt collector drivel, laugh at the desperation!

    Hopeless firm, IMHO, ex-clampers who are not legal eagles. Come back if they try a doomed claim.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • Laurendo
    • By Laurendo 12th Apr 18, 5:21 PM
    • 18 Posts
    • 13 Thanks
    Laurendo
    Sent stock appeal letter which was almost immediately rejected.

    Sent a letter of complaint to CEO as listed on other thread (thanks for that) and have received a stock response from what I assume is an assistant of something asking for pcn ref as stupidly forgot to add it. Response is polite but notes I didn't take children out of car. So we'll see what they come back with.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 15th Apr 18, 12:18 AM
    • 60,110 Posts
    • 73,243 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Makes no odds; if it's not cancelled, just ignore NPE after that (except a court claim = defendable!).

    Nothing to worry about.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

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