Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@.

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • vimal.hemraj
    • By vimal.hemraj 6th Apr 18, 6:40 PM
    • 8Posts
    • 1Thanks
    vimal.hemraj
    Lease Car/CMS Ticket Situation
    • #1
    • 6th Apr 18, 6:40 PM
    Lease Car/CMS Ticket Situation 6th Apr 18 at 6:40 PM
    Having gone through the FAQs and many threads, I think I have a slightly different situation here I am in which I would appreciate guidance in.....

    - NOTE: I have a company owned lease vehicle

    On 1/03/2018 I parked in a car park near the train station, use it all the time. Its not Pay & Display, you simply pay the chap on arrival. I paid for 2 days (10) as I was away for the night. He gave me a receipt. I have done this before, usually all good.

    On 2/03/2018 when I returned, there was a yellow ticket on my car. I (maybe foolishly) followed the process to explain they had made a mistake, I have paid for 2 days.

    Couple of days after, when I went back to the car park, I showed the chap the ticket and my receipt. His response "Oh that was your car! Sorry, don't worry about this" and....ripped up the ticket in front of me. I still have the receipt however.

    Couple of days after this, I received the below email from CMS UK saying my appeal had been rejected and I could appeal to IAS.

    I would be happy to fight this (i.e. by ignoring etc.) but its very likely the fine will go to my lease company, who will pay it and charge me, plus admin fee.
    I am clearly not in the wrong, I have paid for the duration, and the person 'looking after' the site has admitted he made a mistake (and ripped up the ticket, which I wasnt happy about but he reassured me it was dealt with! - which it doesn't seem to be!)

    On my next post I will try to show the signs around the car park. Nothing on entry, but there are 3 small-ish CMS signs around the car park. I do not know who owns the car park, I am trying to find out.

    What should I do next? Should I appeal to IAS? Do I stand a chance? Event though I am 100% right?

    Appreciate any feedback!
    ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    Response:

    Thank you for your correspondence regarding the above parking charge notice
    (PCN).

    As the driver it is your own responsibility to ensure you are aware of any
    parking restrictions that may apply in the place in which you are parking
    your vehicle. The place in which you had parked your vehicle was for
    authorised users only. The place in which you parked your vehicle should
    have been left clear as no vehicle should be left there. As your vehicle was
    not parking adhering to the rules of the car park the charge has been issued
    correctly.

    We have found no grounds for the cancellation of the charge.

    You now have a number of options

    1) To close the case, pay the Parking Charge at the prevailing Price of
    60.00 if still within the first 14 days from the date the charge was issued
    or 100 if out of the discounted period.

    2) If you believe the appeal decision is incorrect The Independent
    Appeals Service provides an Alternative Dispute
    Resolution scheme for disputes of this type. As you have complied with
    our internal appeals procedure you may use, and we will engage with, the IAS
    Standard Appeals Service providing you lodge an appeal to them within
    21 days of this rejection. To engage in the IAS Standard Appeals Service
    please visit and submit your appeal. Please leave until
    5pm this evening before submitting your appeal.

    3) If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed
    to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with court action
    against you.

    If you have already made payment, the above options do not apply to you as
    the case is now closed.

    Yours Sincerely



    CM Services Ltd
    Appeals Department


    Please do not reply to this message. Replies to this message are routed to
    an unmonitored mailbox.

    CMS UK Ltd - Appeals Upload

    FORM submitted at 04/03/2018 18:10:41
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Registration Number:
    Referrence Number:
    Was The Driver: yes
    Is The Owner: yes
    ------------
    Ticket Innacuracy
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Paid £10 for 2 days parking and received receipt of this (attached). Dates
    of entry and exit is on there.
    On the 2nd day (midday) received a fine for this, no idea why.
Page 1
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 6th Apr 18, 6:47 PM
    • 37,525 Posts
    • 21,736 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #2
    • 6th Apr 18, 6:47 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Apr 18, 6:47 PM
    No chance with an appeal to IAS


    Everyone is politely asked not to post a thread before reading up on this in the newbies faq thread near the top of the forum


    Go there now to learn about the futility of appealing to IAS


    You now ignore everything except a lbcca or court correspondence


    They have 6 years to take legal action. If it comes to this come back for advice on how to defend it at that time
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Apr 18, 7:11 PM
    • 62,736 Posts
    • 75,673 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 6th Apr 18, 7:11 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Apr 18, 7:11 PM
    What should I do next?
    Nothing, nothing at all, like all the shedloads of other IPC threads.

    Should I appeal to IAS?
    Of course not, the NEWBIES thread says why not.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 6th Apr 18, 7:41 PM
    • 10,246 Posts
    • 10,136 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #4
    • 6th Apr 18, 7:41 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Apr 18, 7:41 PM
    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

    The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • vimal.hemraj
    • By vimal.hemraj 8th Apr 18, 7:11 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    vimal.hemraj
    • #5
    • 8th Apr 18, 7:11 PM
    • #5
    • 8th Apr 18, 7:11 PM
    I can!!!8217;t just !!!8216;do nothing!!!8217;
    Because they!!!8217;ll send the invoice to the lease company who will no doubt, pay it and charge me
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th Apr 18, 7:14 PM
    • 62,736 Posts
    • 75,673 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #6
    • 8th Apr 18, 7:14 PM
    • #6
    • 8th Apr 18, 7:14 PM
    You need to switch off your Smart Punctuation.

    A PPC cannot revert to the lease firm, if they know who you are and that you are either the hirer or driver. They must deal with you.

    when I went back to the car park, I showed the chap the ticket and my receipt. His response "Oh that was your car! Sorry, don't worry about this" and....ripped up the ticket in front of me. I still have the receipt however.
    Go back and film him on your camera while you have a conversation about this again, ask him why he ripped up the ticket?

    Do you suspect he is keeping part of the tenner when people pay for 2 days?

    In your case, I do think IAS is worth trying, so what stage are you at with IAS? Have you started it?
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 08-04-2018 at 7:18 PM.
    • vimal.hemraj
    • By vimal.hemraj 8th Apr 18, 7:15 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    vimal.hemraj
    • #7
    • 8th Apr 18, 7:15 PM
    • #7
    • 8th Apr 18, 7:15 PM
    Tried to login to the IAS site to start writing a well-worded response.
    Obviously I think I stand a good chance, because I!!!8217;ve actually paid the right amount for the parking and car park attendant has admitted the mistake, but I appreciate how these things work.
    However, when I entered PCN number (from the !!!8216;reference number on CMS rejection email as the attendant ripped up my ticket) and it says PCN Number not valid.

    Could it be it!!!8217;s actually been cancelled?
    Or has the lease company paid it and I!!!8217;ll be notified this week...
    Will know soon!
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 8th Apr 18, 7:21 PM
    • 9,894 Posts
    • 10,208 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #8
    • 8th Apr 18, 7:21 PM
    • #8
    • 8th Apr 18, 7:21 PM
    I guess you missed Coupon-mad's comment earlier about Smart Punctuation.

    To make your posts easier to read, please turn off Smart Punctuation on your iphone/ipad.


    It might be a good idea to preview your 'well worded response' here before posting on the IAS website. But that's up to you really.
    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th Apr 18, 7:22 PM
    • 62,736 Posts
    • 75,673 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #9
    • 8th Apr 18, 7:22 PM
    • #9
    • 8th Apr 18, 7:22 PM
    Don't log in yet!

    Create your appeal FIRST, here, get it right before you start typing it in on IAS.

    The Lease company CANNOT have been contacted, so stop worrying.

    Does your receipt prove you paid a tenner or does it not show that?

    However, when I entered PCN number (from the reference number on CMS rejection email as the attendant ripped up my ticket) and it says PCN Number not valid.
    Odd.

    I would registered with and contact the IPC and complain that you want to appeal to IAS because the PCN was issued in error, and the ticketer admitted that and tore it up, but you can't appeal because the PCN number is showing as invalid. Yet you have a rejection letter from the company, and have not been told it has been cancelled so are now stuck with no IAS capability despite wishing to appeal and prove your case.
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 08-04-2018 at 7:39 PM.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 8th Apr 18, 7:37 PM
    • 37,525 Posts
    • 21,736 Thanks
    Quentin
    You cannot appeal further now the initial appeal has been rejected.


    The next stage is an IAS appeal (as mentioned in point 2 in the rejection notice to your original appeal) recommended in #6


    Are you still within the 21 days allowed??
    • vimal.hemraj
    • By vimal.hemraj 9th Apr 18, 9:59 AM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    vimal.hemraj
    Apologies for the 'smart punctuation' error - and I saw Coupon-mad's comment after i had posted! On my laptop now so hopefully no issues.

    The receipt does show I paid I paid a tenner yes, and dates of validity. Albeit scribbled on. Do I think he's keeping part of it? No, I think he's made a genuine mistake because not many people park there for 2-days (overnight), but I have done before a few times.

    Question, does he have authority to contact CMS and have the ticket cancelled at this stage? Because if so, I'm sure I can speak to him, give him the PCN number I have from the rejection email (although, its not valid apparently!) and persuade him to contact CMS UK to cancel?

    @Quentin, apologies if I wasn't clear. I did mean appealing via IAS appeal route at this stage. They emailed me 23rd March, so I have until to end of this week to appeal. Of course, I will post draft on here before submitting. If I can submit that is, as my PCN is invalid....

    Just thought, if I actually wanted to pay the fine now, I have no way of doing so. No parking ticket (ripped up) and invalid PCN......
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 9th Apr 18, 7:38 PM
    • 62,736 Posts
    • 75,673 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Question, does he have authority to contact CMS and have the ticket cancelled at this stage? Because if so, I'm sure I can speak to him, give him the PCN number I have from the rejection email (although, its not valid apparently!) and persuade him to contact CMS UK to cancel?
    Yes, but I would not believe a person like that even if they said the Earth was round!
    • vimal.hemraj
    • By vimal.hemraj 8th Jun 18, 5:13 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    vimal.hemraj
    Update on this if anyone can help:

    A Parking Charge Notice did go to my company who have forwarded onto me, I have told them I will deal with it and not to pay it.

    I emailed IPayMyPCN detailing the above, that I have a valid ticket and the PCN is clearly a mistake on their side, I wasn't expecting a response but 3 weeks later received this from 'ZZPS':

    Good Morning,
    Thank you for your recent email.
    Please confirm, before we discuss this matter that you were the driver and your full name and address.


    Anyone with advice on next steps?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 8th Jun 18, 5:17 PM
    • 37,525 Posts
    • 21,736 Thanks
    Quentin
    What is zzps's role in this?

    Don't reveal who was driving
    Last edited by Quentin; 08-06-2018 at 5:23 PM.
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 8th Jun 18, 5:54 PM
    • 37,573 Posts
    • 84,512 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    What is zzps's role in this?

    Don't reveal who was driving
    Originally posted by Quentin
    None.

    The scammers already know the identity of the driver.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 8th Jun 18, 5:58 PM
    • 37,573 Posts
    • 84,512 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Update on this if anyone can help:

    A Parking Charge Notice did go to my company who have forwarded onto me, I have told them I will deal with it and not to pay it.

    I emailed IPayMyPCN detailing the above, that I have a valid ticket and the PCN is clearly a mistake on their side, I wasn't expecting a response but 3 weeks later received this from 'ZZPS':

    Good Morning,
    Thank you for your recent email.
    Please confirm, before we discuss this matter that you were the driver and your full name and address.


    Anyone with advice on next steps?
    Originally posted by vimal.hemraj
    Ignore debt collectors.

    Only deal with the scammers.

    Did you tell your employer in writing not to deal with this?

    Complain to the DVLA that the scammers are trying to transfer liability back to the lease company when they are fully aware of the driver's identity, and that an appeal has been lodged with them.
    Attach the copy of the reply from CMS appeals dept that clearly shows them replying to The Driver.

    Send a statement to the lease company that since liability has been transferred to the driver, they, the lease company, are not now liable for this charge and MUST NOT pay it. Include a copy of your complaint to the DVLA, and also quote the relevant part of The POFA about liability now being transferred to The Driver, pointing out that it CANNOT now be transferred back to the lease company.

    Send a copy of your DVLA complaint to your employer attaching a copy of the letter to the lease company telling them not to pay the PCN.
    Send a copy of your DVLA complaint to the scammers.

    This is all to indemnify your self in case the lease company or your employer are stupid enough to at the scam charge. You tell them not to do it, and explain in very strict terms why they are not liable to do it.

    Send SARs to the scammers and the DVLA as per the SAR thread entitled "June 2018 ..."

    Complain to your MP and Sir Greg Knight MP about this unregulated scam.
    Make sure each party is aware that the correct process (POFA) is not being followed.

    As a side note, the PCN wasn't issued for non payment, but for parking a vehicle where it shouldn't be parked. In other words the parking and paying for two days is irrelevant and not the reason why the PCN was issued.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 09-06-2018 at 10:30 AM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • vimal.hemraj
    • By vimal.hemraj 25th Jul 18, 9:31 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    vimal.hemraj
    Another email asking me to confirm if I was driver and full address.
    Why do they need this and are ignoring everything else in my letter but just asking for this?
    What is the consequence of them having these details?
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 25th Jul 18, 9:43 PM
    • 37,525 Posts
    • 21,736 Thanks
    Quentin
    Throughout here you are advised never to reveal who was driving!!

    They are ignoring your letter because they just want the money

    They aren't interested in anything else!!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 25th Jul 18, 11:07 PM
    • 62,736 Posts
    • 75,673 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Another email asking me to confirm if I was driver and full address.
    Why do they need this and are ignoring everything else in my letter but just asking for this?
    What is the consequence of them having these details?
    Originally posted by vimal.hemraj
    If you fall for that you've not read the forum at all! Of course you MUST NOT say who was driving!
    • vimal.hemraj
    • By vimal.hemraj 12th Aug 18, 4:36 PM
    • 8 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    vimal.hemraj
    Response from them. Clearly this is a lie

    Good morning

    "This is due to Data Protection.

    Until the requested details have been confirmed, we will not respond to any further correspondence from yourself.

    Kind regards
    Craig"
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

102Posts Today

1,440Users online

Martin's Twitter