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  • FIRST POST
    • surveyor_101
    • By surveyor_101 5th Apr 18, 9:31 PM
    • 185Posts
    • 124Thanks
    surveyor_101
    PPS ticket
    • #1
    • 5th Apr 18, 9:31 PM
    PPS ticket 5th Apr 18 at 9:31 PM
    My car got a ticket.

    The Signs show bpa and ipc but the notice that!!!8217;s come is just ipc? Bit weird can they do that.

    Any tips on dealing with them?
    Last edited by surveyor_101; 06-04-2018 at 5:54 PM.
Page 2
    • surveyor_101
    • By surveyor_101 12th Apr 18, 6:51 PM
    • 185 Posts
    • 124 Thanks
    surveyor_101
    Just used a Letter before legal action to the landowners that i have used to success before.

    lets see if that does the trick
    • BradPrice
    • By BradPrice 12th Apr 18, 7:18 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    BradPrice
    We have also received not one but two letters today from when we were on holiday last week in Brixham, we parked on the Darthaven Marina car park, on two separate days we were unaware on both occasions that the time started and ended at the point of entering and exiting the car park, so once parked up leisurely got our coats on, purchased a ticket and then felt that if we had placed three hours on the car it was three hours from that point of purchasing the ticket, on both occasions we were back at the car before the three hours were over but again took our coats off got in the car set the sat nav and away, no rush we were on holiday after all. We were horrified to find pictures of the car entering the car park and then leaving the car park and being told we had over run our time. I have read through a few threads the first one being back in 2010 where the advice was to ignore this sounded very promising however reading on the latest threads this may not now be the best advice. I have tried to go on there web page and appeal however it just comes up database down, any advice would be welcome.
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 12th Apr 18, 7:28 PM
    • 1,775 Posts
    • 2,243 Thanks
    twhitehousescat
    We have also received not one but two letters today from when we were on holiday last week in Brixham, we parked on the Darthaven Marina car park, on two separate days we were unaware on both occasions that the time started and ended at the point of entering and exiting the car park, so once parked up leisurely got our coats on, purchased a ticket and then felt that if we had placed three hours on the car it was three hours from that point of purchasing the ticket, on both occasions we were back at the car before the three hours were over but again took our coats off got in the car set the sat nav and away, no rush we were on holiday after all. We were horrified to find pictures of the car entering the car park and then leaving the car park and being told we had over run our time. I have read through a few threads the first one being back in 2010 where the advice was to ignore this sounded very promising however reading on the latest threads this may not now be the best advice. I have tried to go on there web page and appeal however it just comes up database down, any advice would be welcome.
    Originally posted by BradPrice
    however if you read codes of practice you will see that "grace periods" are allowed , both on entering and leaving the site , typically this is 10 mins +5 minutes
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • surveyor_101
    • By surveyor_101 12th Apr 18, 8:41 PM
    • 185 Posts
    • 124 Thanks
    surveyor_101
    The issue with the site in question is during rush hour your could be stuck Half on the pavement half in the site where it records your exit photo.

    A trick I have seen used is cover your rear plate while leaving, this means they never record an exit and it confuses there system.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 12th Apr 18, 8:55 PM
    • 9,229 Posts
    • 9,424 Thanks
    KeithP
    A trick I have seen used is cover your rear plate while leaving, this means they never record an exit and it confuses there system.
    Originally posted by surveyor_101
    If you are sure it won't cause an indeterminate stay, then I guess that might work.
    .
    • surveyor_101
    • By surveyor_101 17th Apr 18, 5:38 PM
    • 185 Posts
    • 124 Thanks
    surveyor_101
    My letter to the landowner claiming that PPS have failed to disengage the penalty rule in a pay and display carpark etc.

    They have also spoken to PPC who provided details of my appeal is that not a data protection issue?

    They have not answer questions about the penalty rule or their published grace period on the site website of 15 mins when PPS claim 10.

    "Thank you for your letter dated April 2018.

    We confirm that we have agreed that Premier Parking Solutions Limited (PPS) will manage our car park at the Cooper Associates County Ground.

    We understand that PPS has written to you following your unsuccessful appeal with the company direct and has suggested that you appeal to the Independent Appeals Service, if you are still unhappy with the PCN issued to you. We are not part of this process and cannot comment further.

    PPS has assured us that its processes are robust, as it is an accredited operator of the IPC and a member of the BPA. In addition, PPS is regularly audited by the DVLA to ensure Keeper information is correctly used."


    I asked for a copy of the agreement which they have not done or answered the point?
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 17th Apr 18, 5:43 PM
    • 61,542 Posts
    • 74,427 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    If you are sure it won't cause an indeterminate stay, then I guess that might work.
    Originally posted by KeithP
    Plastic shopping bags sometimes *accidentally* slip out of the boot a bit and cover the numberplate of vehicles I know about, and it means they can't read the VRN and the thing goes nowhere (no PCN).

    Thank you for your letter dated April 2018.

    We confirm that we have agreed that Premier Parking Solutions Limited (PPS) will manage our car park at the Cooper Associates County Ground.

    We understand that PPS has written to you following your unsuccessful appeal with the company direct and has suggested that you appeal to the Independent Appeals Service, if you are still unhappy with the PCN issued to you. We are not part of this process and cannot comment further.

    PPS has assured us that its processes are robust, as it is an accredited operator of the IPC and a member of the BPA. In addition, PPS is regularly audited by the DVLA to ensure Keeper information is correctly used."
    Reply, urging the landowner to stop believing what their contractor (ex-clamper, a notorious firm) says.

    And direct them to the Parliamentary debate from 2.2.18 where all MPs in the House were unanimous in agreeing:

    ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse;''

    Ask them how they think an appeals service that (given the numerous reports) almost never allows any, and does not consider mitigating circumstances AT ALL, fits with their own ethos?

    Ask them how this PCN is fair and proportionate?

    Ask them why they are not exercising their right to cancel a PCN, as per their contract with this ex-clamper, and remembering that the PPC works for them and not the other way around (is the tail wagging the dog?). Surely they ensured they retain the right to cancel PCNs, if not, they were negligent and have allowed an 'outrageous scam' to freely operate on site, with no veto and NO fair appeal whatsoever.

    Urge them to open their eyes as to what they have going on here. PPS have even been named and shamed in Parliament before, I think, by local MPs in the West Country.

    Tell them you will escalate the complaint and will NOT be using the kangaroo court, and that they need to alert their top Management to this horrendous issue with their contractor not offering anything like an INDEPENDENT appeal, since it is run by their own Trade Body and gives reportedly biased (anti-consumer) decisions from an anonymous person:

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/is-independent-appeal-service-kangaroo.html

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/ipc-kangaroo-court-defies-government.html

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/11/ipc-kangaroo-court-strikes-again.html

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/independent-parking-committee-kangaroo.html

    Tell them the above links are not to some random blogger. The Parking Prankster has reported about this issue for many years and is on Watchdog in a 'dodgy practices' report about parking firms tomorrow night:

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2018/04/parking-prankster-on-watchdog.html

    HTH
    Last edited by Coupon-mad; 17-04-2018 at 5:51 PM.
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • surveyor_101
    • By surveyor_101 17th Apr 18, 5:46 PM
    • 185 Posts
    • 124 Thanks
    surveyor_101
    The other issue is their photos show the car half on site and have on public highway, how can they start the parking time from that!
    • surveyor_101
    • By surveyor_101 17th Apr 18, 6:37 PM
    • 185 Posts
    • 124 Thanks
    surveyor_101
    Thanks

    do the DVLA audit PPCs?
    Last edited by surveyor_101; 17-04-2018 at 6:43 PM.
    • surveyor_101
    • By surveyor_101 17th Apr 18, 6:59 PM
    • 185 Posts
    • 124 Thanks
    surveyor_101
    my draft

    Sarah,

    WITHOUT PREDJUDICE

    Unfortunately, you appear to misunderstand what I have written as this was not an appeal of the Parking Charge Notice.

    Differing Grace Periods

    You also appear to have failed to answer or respond to a number of points I have raised not least of all the discrepancy in the published grace period on your website vs what Premier Parking Solutions Ltd have reported in their response to me. Since PPS have shared information with your as regards my correspondence with them I have attached a copy of their response. You should also be aware that both the BPA and IPC are just trade bodies funded by the parking companies themselves. I would urge you to get independent advice from another source not the parking company you have contracted with as they are hardly going to admit to their own unfair practices or floors in their case against the driver of my
    vehicle.

    As you have not attached a copy of your contract highlighting the agreed grace period I assume you accept that PPS have incorrectly reported 10 minutes? Or the 15 minutes in your website is incorrect and misleading?

    DVLA KADOE Contract

    The DVLA have been happy to accept the money from these companies only requiring membership of one of the trade bodies in order to qualify to request and pay for Registered Keeper information. This issue has been debated in Parliament in February of this year and MPs agreed that the DVLA should not be selling private individuals data to companies without proper regulation. Membership of a trade union or trade club should not be all the DVLA requires to sell companies your or my private information would you not agree?


    How this PCN is fair and proportionate?

    In the case of my vehicle the allege overstay is 76 minutes if the ANPR data is to be believed. NOTWITHSTANDING the photos show the vehicle partially outside your boundary and not 'parked'

    I can assure you as your carpark is a pay and display with a charge of 1.70 for 2 hours parking that claiming 100 is a not a genuine pre-estimate loss and therefore is almost certain to fail in a court of law due it being regarded as a 'penalty'. As you are probably aware ONLY local authorities and government agencies can impose 'penalty charges' hence PPS using the term 'Parking Charge Notice'. As I pointed out a reasonable charge would be say 25 for administration costs and 1.70 for two hours parking (76 minutes not considering a grace period) so the 60 or 100 they are requesting is quite laughable and disproportionate to the allege overstay would you not agree?

    I would urge you to review your contract with them and your organisation's decision to use a company of ex-clampers that I believe have been named and shamed in The House of Commons for their shoddy practices. Also, the questionable practice of ANPR system which is this case starts a parking session while your vehicle is not even fully within the site boundary.

    I would also point out that Parliament is aware that this unregulated industry cannot be left to regulate itself and are finally taking action to pass reforms and regulation this year. I would you direct to a Parliamentary debate from 02.02.18 where all MPs in the House were unanimous in agreeing:

    ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse;''

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41



    In light of the information I have brought to your attention why are you not exercising your right to cancel a PCN, as per your contract with this rogue parking company as they work for your organisation not the other way around.

    Further Complaint- A complaint brought to your organisation is and can be separate to any action of communication between a person and a private parking company of ex-rogue clampers.

    I will be escalating my complaint and will NOT be using the kangaroo court (IAS). I would urge you to alert your top Management to this horrendous issue with their contractor not offering anything like an INDEPENDENT appeal, since it is run by their own Trade Body and gives reportedly biased (anti-consumer) decisions from an anonymous person:

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/is-independent-appeal-service-kangaroo.html

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/ipc-kangaroo-court-defies-government.html

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/11/ipc-kangaroo-court-strikes-again.html

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/independent-parking-committee-kangaroo.html

    The above links are not to some random blogger. The Parking Prankster has reported about this issue for many years and is on the BBC's Watchdog in a 'dodgy practices' report about parking firms tomorrow night (18/04/18) so I believe them a credible source for information on the Private Parking Industry:

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2018/04/parking-prankster-on-watchdog.html


    I look forward to your careful and considered response after reviewing the above information and not just listening to your private parking contractor.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 17th Apr 18, 7:09 PM
    • 9,229 Posts
    • 9,424 Thanks
    KeithP
    Why have you written WITHOUT PREDJUDICE at the top?

    Is that a good idea?
    .
    • surveyor_101
    • By surveyor_101 17th Apr 18, 7:17 PM
    • 185 Posts
    • 124 Thanks
    surveyor_101
    I sent a letter before legal action and she has responded without pred, so I thought I cover myself as i have threatened to make a claim against them.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 17th Apr 18, 7:21 PM
    • 9,229 Posts
    • 9,424 Thanks
    KeithP
    I'll put it another way... I don't think it is a good idea for you to use Without Prejudice, note the spelling, on that letter.

    If this issue ever came to court then you would probably want to show that you have tried to resolve the issues, wouldn't you?
    .
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 17th Apr 18, 7:58 PM
    • 37,273 Posts
    • 21,432 Thanks
    Quentin
    Do you understand what it means?


    No point sending it if you can't use it as part of your court case!
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 17th Apr 18, 9:57 PM
    • 19,400 Posts
    • 30,651 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    I don't think it is a good idea for you to use Without Prejudice,
    I cringe whenever I see its misuse - and it's becoming more prevalent here of late.

    But hey ho, never mind, sounds 'nice and legal', let's be 'avin it, bound to make the bug.gers quake!
    The fact that I have commented on your thread does not mean I have become your personal adviser. A long list of subsequent questions addressed for my personal attention is unlikely to receive a reply.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 20th Apr 18, 12:35 AM
    • 61,542 Posts
    • 74,427 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Remove the WP words...
    PRIVATE PCN? DON'T PAY BUT DO NOT IGNORE IT TWO Clicks needed for advice:
    Top of the page: Home>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking - read the 'NEWBIES' FAQS thread!
    Advice to ignore is WRONG, unless in Scotland/NI.

    • surveyor_101
    • By surveyor_101 20th Apr 18, 1:14 PM
    • 185 Posts
    • 124 Thanks
    surveyor_101
    I did remove wp
    • surveyor_101
    • By surveyor_101 24th Apr 18, 1:22 PM
    • 185 Posts
    • 124 Thanks
    surveyor_101
    No response seems they are ignoring and hoping I go away.

    How long should in give them 7 days?

    Have complained to planning enforce as initial call to the council confirms they likely should have planning for CCTV and ANPR.
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 24th Apr 18, 4:52 PM
    • 3,429 Posts
    • 4,260 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    What deadline did you give them? If you didnt, then why would you expect a prompt response?
    • surveyor_101
    • By surveyor_101 24th Apr 18, 7:26 PM
    • 185 Posts
    • 124 Thanks
    surveyor_101
    Never had a issue getting a response? Normally at this stage it it!!!8217;s been cancelled.

    I have used the standard response letter.

    Not sure whether to throw lack of planning in the mix?
    Last edited by surveyor_101; 24-04-2018 at 7:29 PM.
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